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2006-01-22 08:27:50
the_ubernoob_
Member
+8|7168

dshak wrote:

Here's why most of the points made by P3RK3 aren't valid:

1) body armor plays no role in killing with either weapon... two M24 shots or one head shot, two M95 shots or one head shot kill... body armor or not
2) I've found no evidence, despite ALL the controversy, of bullet drop with either gun... no matter my elevation or theirs, if they are in RANGE (visible at all through the crosshairs) I've always placed the crosshair right on their head with success despite those variables. Point being if it does exist, its not a big factor at all, though I haven't noticed ANY with the M24
3) it can shoot through glass... no argument with this one, though I can count on one hand the number of rifle kills I've had through glass... I'd need almost 3000 fingers and toes to count the other rifle kills
4) the machine gun turret armor thing, just not true. go ahead, try it in a LAN or with a friend.
5) giddy? well, whatever. I don't think anyone gets 'giddy' when they get killed, regardless of the weapon used.

your preference is the M95, all well and good, unfortunately there's little reason to support that preference as being a superior weapon.
Little reason?

1. Body armor does play a role.  2 shots to kill any full health player with either rifle...1 shot with M24 just barely won't kill the man with the scraped knee while 1 shot with M95 to kill the body armored opponent who fell and scraped his knee

2. Bullet drop: does it exist; yes.  Is it important? with the M95 no.  Its just that awesome.

3. Well I'd need a 3rd hand to count all of my glass kills (aircraft arent the only things with glass) and the same 3000 thing goes for all non-glass M95 kills.

4. It can't punch through the armor..It just finds that little slit in the middle.

5. So im not the only one who notices that people start running around like drunken fiends when [M95] starts showing up.



{count of people not under the effect of M24 mind control (excluding myself): 2}

Last edited by the_ubernoob_ (2006-01-22 08:34:00)

2006-01-22 12:17:22
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7165|Vermont

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

3. Well I'd need a 3rd hand to count all of my glass kills (aircraft arent the only things with glass) and the same 3000 thing goes for all non-glass M95 kills.
You only have 521 sniper rifle kills.  Are you using 6 fingers for each kill or something?  Please explain your counting process.
2006-01-22 12:18:11
P3R3K
Member
+0|7103

dshak wrote:

Here's why most of the points made by P3RK3 aren't valid:

1) body armor plays no role in killing with either weapon... two M24 shots or one head shot, two M95 shots or one head shot kill... body armor or not
2) I've found no evidence, despite ALL the controversy, of bullet drop with either gun... no matter my elevation or theirs, if they are in RANGE (visible at all through the crosshairs) I've always placed the crosshair right on their head with success despite those variables. Point being if it does exist, its not a big factor at all, though I haven't noticed ANY with the M24
3) it can shoot through glass... no argument with this one, though I can count on one hand the number of rifle kills I've had through glass... I'd need almost 3000 fingers and toes to count the other rifle kills
4) the machine gun turret armor thing, just not true. go ahead, try it in a LAN or with a friend.
5) giddy? well, whatever. I don't think anyone gets 'giddy' when they get killed, regardless of the weapon used.

your preference is the M95, all well and good, unfortunately there's little reason to support that preference as being a superior weapon.
1) With body armour the M24 only takes them to half health. The M95 always goes to 1 bar, if the person you shot has been hit by ANY bullet in the game even once the M95 will one hit kill them.
2) I can tell you for a fact that all my 300m+ shots have required me to aim significantly up. I snipe from atop the hotel on oman down to the MEC base and there is bullet drop at that range, even with the m24
3) I can pretty much single handidly hold off the hotel point because of this.
4) Umm yes it is true, You can shoot right thru the back armour of the tank gunner and im almost positive you can do the same on the turrets.
5) When I am sitting there owning the MEC base from 200+M they start going crazy looking for the sniper and that results in more kills as they climb the hills looking for me.
2006-01-22 12:44:32
dshak
Member
+4|7237
okay,

definitely not trying to start a thing... but at 43% accuracy and with more deaths than kills using the sniper rifle, while I respect your opinion... I'm not sure you have played enough to sell me. Thats not a knock, just a fact. When I had the same number of hours you did I had about the same accuracy, but with over %50 at teh moment I'm pretty confident about my own understand of the way these weapons work. I have never, ever, EVER accounted for bullet drop. not once. not ever. I have no problem hitting people at maximum range with the M24 with ZERO compensation. Head shots or otherwise.

I've also passed that stage where I try to cut down anything in my crosshairs and usually only squeeze when his eyeballs are inbetween my crosshairs, so the body armor thing is a non factor... FOR ME. If you think its such a great thing  then bravo, but it takes two rifle shots with either to kill a perfectly healthy soldier, armor or not, so I think this is an overrated feature.

I respectfully disagree, and I think my experience sniping speaks for itself. I'm not a big "stats" guy by any means, but I think when it comes to sniping mine hold their own as far as validating my opinion.

I might retract the armor thing, I'm fully willing to admit you may be right about that for sure, as I am not "sure" though I can think of many times I've plunked that back armor and not recieved a hit indicator.
2006-01-22 13:01:42
FILAMU_NOR
Member
+0|7105|Bærum, norway
I love the m95 i got 40 kills in one round.....and i dident DIE i got gold medal too....
2006-01-22 13:05:35
Kusunagi
Member
+59|7161|The land of Hookers and pod
Definitly the M24, 2 days ago i was sniping at Sharqi and the commander spotted 2 infantry that tried to went to the hotelflag. Both of them were running and shot twice and got them both with a headshot (bit of luck i guess), that is someting I wont achieve with the M95, I can only hit standing targets with it. The only time i use the M95 is to shoot teammates that steal my plane/heli... (j/k).
2006-01-22 16:19:56
P3R3K
Member
+0|7103

Kusunagi wrote:

Definitly the M24, 2 days ago i was sniping at Sharqi and the commander spotted 2 infantry that tried to went to the hotelflag. Both of them were running and shot twice and got them both with a headshot (bit of luck i guess), that is someting I wont achieve with the M95, I can only hit standing targets with it. The only time i use the M95 is to shoot teammates that steal my plane/heli... (j/k).
You just dont know how to use it correctly
2006-01-22 20:17:02
dshak
Member
+4|7237
I do love that argument... when people say things like "you don't know how to use it correctly" when refering to weapons in this game... where you kill things by pointing and clicking on them.

P3 - I'm joshin you. as if I couldn't tell to begin with, your winking face made it pretty clear that your comment there was tongue and cheek.
2006-01-22 21:17:43
[GDC]SinnFein
Got Whiskey?
+63|7211|Meiriceá - frm 'Real Capital'
http://www.totalbf2.com/articles/article/4/2

from Armando

Q: I think I've proven bullet drop pretty conclusively here. However, there are those who are skeptical. So I ask, is there infact bullet drop?

A: The experiment does not take into account the recoil of the sniper rifles. After firing, they do not return to the previous point. They return to a point above the pervious target. What is being measured is the distance from the previous target to the return position.

That said there is gravity on all objects in the game, so the bullets do indeed drop. It just isn’t as pronounced as indicated by the images.
2006-01-23 00:35:33
Wasder
Resident Emo Hater
+139|7099|Moscow, Russia
I started to believe in bullet drop after I watched Rizen_Ji's signature video. If you want to get headshots with M95 you should aim above the head, the longer the distance the higher above.
2006-01-23 00:54:35
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7198|Noizyland

I'd like to take back a lot of what I wrote before. Luckily not many people read it, so I'm in the clear there.

I'm going to wait for EA to improve the M95 before I use it again.

I played a game of Mashtuur city after spending about four hours trying to get my veteran Assault badge. I decided to go Sniper, and decided against my previous trends, to take the M24 as my friend, and leave the M95 at home. I am so glad I did. Headshot after headshot, most of them moving, just flowed. It was brilliant and I had a lot of fun, especially after stressing so hard about getting 20 Assault kills.

Henceforth, I will use the M24 a lot more. I'm discovering that my previous talent in hitting moving target headshots did not dissapear, but was meerly masked by the flaws in the M95.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2006-01-23 01:17:33
bigelectricat
Member
+3|7116

RedFiercare wrote:

The M24 has a ridiculous bullet drop, or maybe I'm just used to the M95.  No M24 for me, I'm too used to the M95 bullet drop
BF2 and BF2SF does not have bullet drop or wind factor.
2006-01-23 01:33:13
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7198|Noizyland

BULLET DROP DOES EXIST. Wind dosn't.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2006-01-23 01:42:23
bigelectricat
Member
+3|7116

P3R3K wrote:

2) I can tell you for a fact that all my 300m+ shots have required me to aim significantly up. I snipe from atop the hotel on oman down to the MEC base and there is bullet drop at that range, even with the m24
i dont know if anybody noticed but the maps and models of this game is scaled down from reality. just look at the distances of each base on the oman map. the bases are no more than 100m from each other. and even at full setting draw distance you wont see clearly past 200m. so how did you come up with 300m shot distance when firing from the hotel roof down to the flag by the pool? horizontal distance is no more than 50m (edit: okay so the vertical distance might be 300m). and the fact that you are aiming down makes your claim of bullet drop ridiculous. they must have issued you a defective m95. i never compensate for bullet drop.

one thing never do after firing a shot with the m95 is to reload. i stay on the scope to see if i hit the target. if not then i reload and aim. but i NEVER see my shots hit below the target which should happen if there is bullet drop. if i do miss a target i usually see it hit to the side or even above the target. i think this is caused by my dying oversensitive mouse and connection lag.

Last edited by bigelectricat (2006-01-23 01:44:39)

2006-01-23 03:30:34
inxAndy
Member
+0|7093|London, England
Depends on the situation imo. the M24 is a better weapon against just plain grunts, but if you have the occasional Hummer / chopper around I prefer the M95 incase I get a lucky shot off and take out the pilot / driver (have done it a few times, not many. But a few

Not really noticed bullet drop myself as I play with the view distance down (at least I think so :p ) Will await further proof about drop before being convinced.

-Andy
2006-01-23 08:25:38
dshak
Member
+4|7237
this bullet drop thing is like the lockness monster or yetti... some people will never be convinced, others would swear by it. I haven't seen anything that "proves" it conclusively on here, including a video where you honest to god CAN'T tell where those crosshairs are because they are so damn thick.

I've never, ever compensated for it, ever, and have had ZERO problems with either rifle getting headshots or being accurate. Like everyone else I blew a nut over the M95 and unlocked it first. I used it FOREVER and have most of my sniper kills with it, it has never been a case of just "not knowing how to use it." However, a few months back I switched back to the M24 (during one of my "hey for nostalgia lets use all the old weapons" phases) and I will never switch back. After using the M95 the thinner crosshairs and more consistent shot from the M24 was like magic. My devotion to the M95 is exactly WHY I can't put the M24 down now. For me, and I'm stating my own opinion here not some universal truth, it is 20 times easier to put that crosshair on a head from 100-150 meters away or the crack a moving target with it, as opposed to using the gun with two strips of black electrical tape for a sight.

The damage numbers are the same, and the armor thing, as I've already stated, isn't even a noticeable factor FOR ME. hell, if you make your living intentionally seeking assaulters, anti tankers to snipe then maybe you care. I'd bet about 2000 of my kills have been other snipers or spec ops attacking resources though, so I don't really give a flying hump about the armor factor.
2006-01-23 09:01:59
[GDC]SinnFein
Got Whiskey?
+63|7211|Meiriceá - frm 'Real Capital'
Ok, guess I need more experience as a sniper because when I take 250m+ shots , I and 2 other top 10 snipes have all sat in the same place, level plain, directly accross the valley(same altitude on map) at 324m had to compensate every time.

When you lads say you need no compensation are you refering to city maps etc? ie; maybe sub 250m shots? If , you say no even the long range shot, lets agree to disagree and I think your crazy:)



btw, when the game creator Armando is the Director @ Dice, says there's drop and people still say there isn't is absolutely beyond my apparently limited comprehension <note: Dshak, not directed towards yourself, as you clearly stated, YOU HAVE not experienced it, you did not claim that it dosn't exsist.>

Last edited by [GDC]SinnFein (2006-01-23 09:07:16)

2006-01-23 09:13:03
dshak
Member
+4|7237
maybe its just my graphics card... but at 300 meters I CAN'T SEE anything let alone shoot it, so yes, I am refering to shots 250 meters (as far as this game goes anyway) and in. At the maximum range that a tango is visible AT ALL through my scope I have never compensated once, and never had a problem.

I wish EA would just give a definitive answer on this and end this ridiculous argument. I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong here, just stating I have never once, ever compensated in any situation for bullet drop, and while I am not a top 10 sniper my k/d ratio, total rifle kills, and accuracy should be sufficient to demonstrate proficiency at the very least.
2006-01-23 13:07:11
HerrHav0k
Member
+0|7093
I have only been playing this game for a couple weeks and I KNOW that there is bullet drop. For example, if you are sniping someone at a great distance, you can barely see him and you are both prone and at the same height/altitude (I.E. you're not looking at him above you or below you, you are looking eye to eye.. level), you put the crosshair directly on him and fire, you will never hit. You can fire 500 rounds >275m with any rifle in the game and he has a better chance of getting crapped on by a flying pig.

M95 was my first unlock, but I only use it when I'm not USMC. I like the M24 a lot better because I like to stay on the move when I am sniping and firing the M95 from standing or crouched position just won't have the same results that the M24 will. The M24 is pinpoint accurate and landing headshots consistantly will keep them from seeing that red damage marker and coming after you when they respawn (pending you killed them).

PS: I watched that video and it proves that there is bullet drop even with the M95. If there wasn't any his shot would just fly way above his victim and into space, but alas, he is killed. I made a line to show you where he is if you can't see him in the video: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/ … ap0000.jpg
2006-01-23 13:20:30
P3R3K
Member
+0|7103

bigelectricat wrote:

P3R3K wrote:

2) I can tell you for a fact that all my 300m+ shots have required me to aim significantly up. I snipe from atop the hotel on oman down to the MEC base and there is bullet drop at that range, even with the m24
i dont know if anybody noticed but the maps and models of this game is scaled down from reality. just look at the distances of each base on the oman map. the bases are no more than 100m from each other. and even at full setting draw distance you wont see clearly past 200m. so how did you come up with 300m shot distance when firing from the hotel roof down to the flag by the pool? horizontal distance is no more than 50m (edit: okay so the vertical distance might be 300m). and the fact that you are aiming down makes your claim of bullet drop ridiculous. they must have issued you a defective m95. i never compensate for bullet drop.

one thing never do after firing a shot with the m95 is to reload. i stay on the scope to see if i hit the target. if not then i reload and aim. but i NEVER see my shots hit below the target which should happen if there is bullet drop. if i do miss a target i usually see it hit to the side or even above the target. i think this is caused by my dying oversensitive mouse and connection lag.
Top of hotel to MEC airbase is not 50M.
2006-01-23 13:22:45
P3R3K
Member
+0|7103
I would love to take on all the people who say there is no bullet drop in a 1v1 match :p
2006-01-23 17:51:09
[GDC]SinnFein
Got Whiskey?
+63|7211|Meiriceá - frm 'Real Capital'

dshak wrote:

I wish EA would just give a definitive answer on this and end this ridiculous argument. I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong here, just stating I have never once, ever compensated in any situation for bullet drop, and while I am not a top 10 sniper my k/d ratio, total rifle kills, and accuracy should be sufficient to demonstrate proficiency at the very least.
??? Dshak, read my post a few above this, They did give a definitive answer, this is the guy who decides what is what and what needs to be fixed/added. for all purposes I guess BF2 is his baby now..
2006-01-23 18:28:37
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|7165|Vermont
rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble rabble
2006-01-23 19:12:22
dshak
Member
+4|7237
GDC - was not aware of that. where does he make that statement? yeah, I've definitely never experienced it but it would appear I'm also not shooting at targets as far away as many of the people on here appear to be. I guess it may be a graphics issue, because I use max view and can't even see people at some of the distances being described on here.

In any case, the main point of my post, the ORIGINAL one on here, was that I strongly prefer the M24 over teh M95... not entirely sure how it turned into an international conference on bullet drop. (notice I used the word 'prefer' there... not "the M24 is better and those of you who don't think so are retarded")
2006-01-23 21:35:37
-xXCRUWXx-
Member
+0|7117|NEW YORK
i use the M95 love it its more of a challenge to use  yes i know  that the M24 is good  but its just to easy

one game i like  for sniping was FarCry  i had 1 shot 3 kills lol was  the best shot i have ever had with sniping

Last edited by -xXCRUWXx- (2006-01-23 21:38:44)

 

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