superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|7374

Many people brag about skill based on their k/d ratio or spm or w/l ratio .  I think these are useless indicators.  Your k/d could reflect being a commander, karkand whoring or tank spawn raping.  Dropping supply bags, med kits or reviving don't take very much skill so SPM is a silly measure.  W/L is a factor of whether or not you are in a clan and play with people that you know, teamswitching,  playing on unbalanced map as one faction (i.e. USMC on karkand), being a server admin etc...on 64 player maps one person cannot win (or lost) a game.  also, don't tell me about accuracy...that's the dumbest stat of them all.

if you really want to use stats as a barometer, then the only way to measure skill is to look at:

1) infantry k/d- mor specifically even look at different weapons to compare.
2) individual vehicle k/d - and also consider that if you have alot of commander time then this will improve your k/d on vehicles if u sit in one while dropping artillery on people.
3) maps played: if the person is a karkand whore then their score/kills will be at least 50% higher than it is on a map like dragon valley.
4) team skills related to flags.  I particularly respect people who cap and defend flags cause this is much more important to winning than spawn raping for instance.
5) well rounded - be good with multiple vehicles and multiple kits/weapons.
6) whether or not you are named Cougar, Polarbearz or Nyte-

for me, indicators of skill when i look at people's stats are:

1) infantry k/d>1 - if you get above 1, considering how often u will randomly get killed by spawn rapers, artillery, armor and airstrikes, then it means that your actual k/d when facing off against other infantry is quite a bit higher.  infantry is the hardest area to master so this would be my first indicator.  Note, that if you only play karkand and have most of your kills from spamming grenades then...

2) tank k/d > 5 but this applies only if you play armor on ALL the maps and if you play armor the right way (i.e.-not to spawn rape).  Anybody can rack up 10 k/d ratios on karkand, sharqi or mashtuur.  let's see you do it on Oman or Daqing or Zatar if you wanna show your true skills.  unfortunately this is the hardest one to judge based on stats alone because there's no way of telling how you are playing (which maps, spawnraping, not engaging other armor...etc)

3) airplane k/d >8 - at this point you not only know how to bomb effectively but have also mastered the art of dogfighting.  however, if all u play is wake or dragon vally and have a ton of hours on PLC then we all know you're a J10 whore so don't bother bragging.

4) chopper k/d >2.5 - chopper is tough cause it also includes transport chopper where you'll die much more often.  plus if you are a pilot constantly then you could be a great player and have even lower k/d.  also new patch have made choppers much more susceptible to anti-air.  it takes two to fly an attack chopper so if you got a lousy teammate then you will not do so well.

Conclusions
Above is what i think should be used to measure skill when looking at stats.  However, i think that ultimately the measure of skill is the fact that people you play with respect you and want you in their squad.  teamwork, smarts, and ability w/gun or vehicle is how i define a skilled player.  Stat mongering does not.

your thoughts, additions?

Last edited by superfly_cox (2006-06-21 04:04:06)

Tor77
Ron Jeremy Apprentice
+84|7245|Norway
Well, I have heard many times that I am "da sux" because of my stats. I have poor stats - social welfare-like stats. However, my poor number stats doesn't really do me justice. I am an admin on 30 busy servers and - unlike a lot of admins - I use several hours every week (up to 10) on just being an admin.

This involves playing Wake A LOT - a map I really don't like - just to hang around at the airfield or hangar and ban/kick people for TK'ing for vehicles, blocking, smacktarding etc. This means I have poorer scores than people who has played almost half my time, poor k/d and spm.

However, when I play "normal" rounds I am pretty good. I am good at team work, I manage the kits very well and I can master both a jet and helicopter. I would say I am a decent allround player although my stats aren't especially good.

That's the life of a dedicated admin!

Last edited by Tor77 (2006-06-21 03:49:48)

elmo1337
Banned
+186|7152|The real world
Ive got,     2.4509 in the chopper, because I play pilot alot
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|7357|Dallas
I just pull out my handy dandy measuring tape.  It says Cougar way down at the far  end and everyone else on the other.
bobroonie.bda
Member
+143|7274
How do i measure skill..

1. maps.. how many different maps do you play.. its hard to not have alot of time in city maps because servers all play them more then anything else. But if you only play the top 3 karkand, sharqi and mashtur city then no matter what your stats say, to me your stats dont mean shit.. There pretty much padded because your affraid to play against jets.. and im no pilot..

2. Infantry to vechicle usage / kills.. if you have 50% or more time or kills in a vechicle of some sort your playing "easy mode". Not that vechicle's are bad or i disslike them.. But this means you pretty much wait around for them instead of helping on foot. It shows fear of infantry.. Fear of dying..

3. infantry weapon kdr. how good are you with infantry weapons.. 2.5 and above great 1.5 good 1.0 average

4. accuracy with those weapons.. some of you might think accuracy dont mean shit.. This is true only if your support or now this is the big one, if you die alot.. Accuracy is important to those infantry men that do not die much in battle.. How many times do you NEED supply's.. how many times have you picked up the enemy's kit because you ran completly out of ammo? I cant afford to shot at walls or the sky because every bullet counts if i want to live longer.. i dont want to be in the middle of a reload when the enemy is in site..

5. Flag work.. defend's, assists, captures.. Capping flags in my opinion is the most important thing in the game. Not matter how good you are if there is no where to spawn.. Well there's no where to spawn....

6. mastering of a certin skill.. Are you a master at 1 thing and good at the rest? or are you average at everything? Are you great at one thing but suck at the rest? You see alot of great pilots.. being a pilot is 2 things in the game.. flying  and gunnning.. But infantry you need strats with every kit.. you need strats to cap flags.. you need to be able to dodge arty / tanks / apc's or kill them with out them getting you..

7. Play to win or play for stats?

8. Play with them, this is the only true way to tell if someone is good.. Stats only give us an outlook on how someone plays.

To me your KDR / SPM can give you a false outlook on total skill. for instance a pilot can go 100 / 1 in a round but infantry do not have that luxury.. So someones KDR and SPM can pretty much mean the persons only good if in armor in Jet / helo.. But what do they do when they cant get there vechicle? Sit around and wait for it? or go cap flags and kill on foot? If you can do both then your the man..

Flame away

Last edited by bobroonie.bda (2006-06-21 04:14:22)

notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7340|The United Center

bobroonie.bda wrote:

.........................................
Good post.  Thanks for sharing your opinion with us.

Anyway, SuperFly, I'd have to agree.  I'm working on trying to get a different map as my most played.  I haven't played Karkand in over a month.  Another thing I think measures skill is being well rounded.  It's incredibly easy to get a lot of points and kills as a medic.  I give a lot more respect to the guys who play as all the different kits and use all the different vehicles.  If someone has 300h as a medic but only 10h as AT, I don't consider that person to be all that skilled.
Mr.E
HakLaw in the house
+103|7153
About the chopper one.....I am an exceptional chopper pilot.....one in a while I get a good gunner.....but more often I get a terrible gunner....if there is AA/AA veh right in front they tend to just look at it until we die.....that is one area where my deaths come from.....Also,on occasions I am an exceptional gunner(on the odd occasion i actually be gunner) and when im gunner,again more often than not, I get a terrible pilot who doesnt seem to see anything(other choppers/AA/jets etc) therefore I die.....even though i scream at these ppl through voip they still dont do it.

GL Andy
.ACB|_Cutthroat1
No place like 127.0.0.1
+76|7288|Gold Coast,QLD,Australia

c4_he_was_famous wrote:

About the chopper one.....I am an exceptional chopper pilot.....one in a while I get a good gunner.....but more often I get a terrible gunner....if there is AA/AA veh right in front they tend to just look at it until we die.....that is one area where my deaths come from.....Also,on occasions I am an exceptional gunner(on the odd occasion i actually be gunner) and when im gunner,again more often than not, I get a terrible pilot who doesnt seem to see anything(other choppers/AA/jets etc) therefore I die.....even though i scream at these ppl through voip they still dont do it.

GL Andy
Is that your trumpet i hear you playing
Sarrk
O-O-O A-O A
+788|7248|Brisbane, Australia

LOlololollool I measure stats by comparing, if they are better than me they use teh hax, and if dey are woorze thye r teh nubb0rz lololol!!

Good guide, I hate it when people compair stats only by SPM and KDR, and dont look at things like maps and teams
superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|7374

bobroonie.bda wrote:

How do i measure skill..

4. accuracy with those weapons.. some of you might think accuracy dont mean shit.. This is true only if your support or now this is the big one, if you die alot.. Accuracy is important to those infantry men that do not die much in battle.. How many times do you NEED supply's.. how many times have you picked up the enemy's kit because you ran completly out of ammo? I cant afford to shot at walls or the sky because every bullet counts if i want to live longer.. i dont want to be in the middle of a reload when the enemy is in site..
you make a good point about accuracy.  however look at someone like bushviper who is (like u) an awesome infantry player but doesn't have a great accuracy (22%).  there's no accounting for how people will shoot off their bullets:)

bobroonie.bda wrote:

Flame away
never!!! no need for anybody to flame away
-[Silver.Inc*
BF2s AU Server Admin
+315|7173|Melbourne, Australia.
Definatly weapon k/d. Any man and his dog can get 5 k/d with every kit, just not with weapons
oh and of course jet k/d.

Last edited by -[Silver.Inc* (2006-06-21 04:35:18)

Spiderman696
Member
+12|7239
To add one problem more to this topic.
Stats (as we see them on the overviewpage) ar the result of many, many hours of play. They show your whole carrere. I for my part started as a BF rooky and had to learn many things. So as long as you do not look at the history of a player, you can tell even less of how skilled he is.

Illustration:
As I started, I realy sucked. K/D 0.5   I got better and better, but first I had to compensate thousands of death. And as I got my 50'000 points, I was even. But on a very high level 17'000 kills/death. Now, 5'000 points later I have 1'500 kills more and died 1000 times. But of course my k/d ratio is still near 1
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|7382|Singapore

By length of penis.

Very very nice guide tho
MoonShadow616
Doesn't read the Whole Thread
+16|7214|Japan
I measure skill solely on what I see in the battlefield, I couldn't give a stuff about Ranks, or Awards that X person has, If someone acts mature, and can quickly and efectivly take an event into their own hands and come out on top, that deserves respect. Also, <rant> if someone is actually able to controll a Helicopter helps sometimes. I get rather irritated by the people who are all like "get in," Get in" "get in" THEN! once in the Heli, he decides that, instead of heading for the battle, he'll try and do a backflip in a Blackhawk, only to loose controll and kill us both. </rant>
Eboreus
Member of Foamy's Card Cult
+46|7240
I think everyone needs to decide for himself if he's skilled or not.. If you feel comfortable and feel like you are performing as good as you can for your abilities, then I'd say you are skilled.
DirtyMexican
I knife Generals
+278|7130|Search Whore killing fields
I measure skill by thier class. Some classes it takes time to learn it and hat off to them
voltage
Member
+46|7433|Sweden
IMO Captured CP/ Capture Assist also indicates skill as only the first one in the flag area get the capture, while all the teammates rushing after him get assists.

A bit off topic: BFTEST52 is the best player, because he's topping the chart with a KDR of 53, thanks to his amazing Assault class KDR of 115 .

Last edited by voltage (2006-06-21 06:25:10)

fierce
I love [fiSh]
+167|7161
superschlau_fuchs and bobroonie.bda you both made some very good points, if you measure skill with the stats BF2 supplies us. If i want to measure skill of players, i rather see how well they do on the battlefield or even better: watch videos of them how they for example do good or fail on the battlefield with basics like not reviving their teammates, not blowing up oil barrels when capturing flags or oversee enemy players when they're standing still next to them.

If you want to take stats into account, i don't look for the global kill death ratio, because it could be from either plane or tank whoring and we all know - this doesn't take skill, it's the easiest way to rack up a lot of kills with the least amount of deaths.

I even think an interesting factor are the different times - if one player has got a huge amount of Squad Leader time and very low Squad Member/Lonewolf time he either never Squad Cycled or was in a One-Man Squad all the time. If a player got a high Lone Wolf time he's either not a teamplayer and never contribute to his team. A good teamplayer got nearly a same amount of Squad Leader/Member time and a very low Lone Wolf time.

As for Capture Points and Teamwork Score, the more the merrier - i think everyone should know why.

Accuracy - i think it says nothing, i got an accuracy of 25% and sometimes i just spray around in the air or shoot enemy walls. On the other hand, bobroonie.bda made a got point about staying alive and running out of ammo - i must say i cannot agree completly with it - if you run out of ammo, and you'Re a versatile player, how about just grabbing a kit of the guy you just mowed down?

Let's go further in the statssection and you'll see the specific Kit stats - i think they say nothing about skill, because they could get their KDR either from commander or using a vehicle.

After that comes the most interesting part of stats - the Weapon stats, they say the most about the skill of a player (if you use stats for measuring of course), i usually don't take Grenades into account - because it doesn't take skill to resupply himself, lying down and spamming nades around - the only skill it takes is to choose the support kit.

As for vehicles - they should be balanced for a skilled player. I want to mention something about the Helicopter stats, always look at the Driver Points - with them you can easily identify if this guy pilots the helicopter and gives his gunner a lot of kills.

Last edited by fierce (2006-06-21 06:32:48)

mrboogman
You talkin' to me? Well I'm the only one here!
+13|7295|Germany
IMHO judging skills on numbers is nearly impossible. Stats are only a good hint for the person who gained them, only they know how they have received them since these numbers leave a lot of questions uncovered :

How often do you spawnrape?
Are you playing mostly against a bunch of noobs?
Are you teamswitching when the odds seem to be against you?
Are you playing with some good guys often that keep reviving you every time you die?
Are you playing on your own clanserver and your clan is kicking every player that is owning you?

These are questions only you can answer so judge YOUR stats and have fun at the game...
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7422
Great post, Hopefully some of the Karkand whores will see it and amend their ways.

Actually nah, that'll never happen. +1 to you though
URE_DED
BF2s US Server Admin
+76|7212|inside the recesses of your...

superfly_cox wrote:

bobroonie.bda wrote:

How do i measure skill..

4. accuracy with those weapons.. some of you might think accuracy dont mean shit.. This is true only if your support or now this is the big one, if you die alot.. Accuracy is important to those infantry men that do not die much in battle.. How many times do you NEED supply's.. how many times have you picked up the enemy's kit because you ran completly out of ammo? I cant afford to shot at walls or the sky because every bullet counts if i want to live longer.. i dont want to be in the middle of a reload when the enemy is in site..
you make a good point about accuracy.  however look at someone like bushviper who is (like u) an awesome infantry player but doesn't have a great accuracy (22%).  there's no accounting for how people will shoot off their bullets:)

bobroonie.bda wrote:

Flame away
never!!! no need for anybody to flame away
22% sucks????  Sheesh.  I thought I was getting better.... (20%).
a fly
Member
+105|7237|The netherlands

superfly_cox wrote:

Many people brag about skill based on their k/d ratio or spm or w/l ratio .  I think these are useless indicators.  Your k/d could reflect being a commander, karkand whoring or tank spawn raping.  Dropping supply bags, med kits or reviving don't take very much skill so SPM is a silly measure.  W/L is a factor of whether or not you are in a clan and play with people that you know, teamswitching,  playing on unbalanced map as one faction (i.e. USMC on karkand), being a server admin etc...on 64 player maps one person cannot win (or lost) a game.  also, don't tell me about accuracy...that's the dumbest stat of them all.

if you really want to use stats as a barometer, then the only way to measure skill is to look at:

1) infantry k/d- mor specifically even look at different weapons to compare.
2) individual vehicle k/d - and also consider that if you have alot of commander time then this will improve your k/d on vehicles if u sit in one while dropping artillery on people.
3) maps played: if the person is a karkand whore then their score/kills will be at least 50% higher than it is on a map like dragon valley.
4) team skills related to flags.  I particularly respect people who cap and defend flags cause this is much more important to winning than spawn raping for instance.
5) well rounded - be good with multiple vehicles and multiple kits/weapons.
6) whether or not you are named Cougar, Polarbearz or Nyte-

for me, indicators of skill when i look at people's stats are:

1) infantry k/d>1 - if you get above 1, considering how often u will randomly get killed by spawn rapers, artillery, armor and airstrikes, then it means that your actual k/d when facing off against other infantry is quite a bit higher.  infantry is the hardest area to master so this would be my first indicator.  Note, that if you only play karkand and have most of your kills from spamming grenades then...

2) tank k/d > 5 but this applies only if you play armor on ALL the maps and if you play armor the right way (i.e.-not to spawn rape).  Anybody can rack up 10 k/d ratios on karkand, sharqi or mashtuur.  let's see you do it on Oman or Daqing or Zatar if you wanna show your true skills.  unfortunately this is the hardest one to judge based on stats alone because there's no way of telling how you are playing (which maps, spawnraping, not engaging other armor...etc)

3) airplane k/d >8 - at this point you not only know how to bomb effectively but have also mastered the art of dogfighting.  however, if all u play is wake or dragon vally and have a ton of hours on PLC then we all know you're a J10 whore so don't bother bragging.

4) chopper k/d >2.5 - chopper is tough cause it also includes transport chopper where you'll die much more often.  plus if you are a pilot constantly then you could be a great player and have even lower k/d.  also new patch have made choppers much more susceptible to anti-air.  it takes two to fly an attack chopper so if you got a lousy teammate then you will not do so well.

Conclusions
Above is what i think should be used to measure skill when looking at stats.  However, i think that ultimately the measure of skill is the fact that people you play with respect you and want you in their squad.  teamwork, smarts, and ability w/gun or vehicle is how i define a skilled player.  Stat mongering does not.

your thoughts, additions?
not bashing or anything, but whats the point???  stats dont say anything about skill. if you want to know how good someone is, play WITH them, and AGAINST them.
Nyte
Legendary BF2S Veteran
+535|7345|Toronto, ON

a fly wrote:

not bashing or anything, but whats the point???  stats dont say anything about skill. if you want to know how good someone is, play WITH them, and AGAINST them.
True, too bad no one here has really played in the same team as I therefore I have no people to vouch for me.
Alpha as fuck.
superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|7374

superfly_cox wrote:

6) whether or not you are named Cougar, Polarbearz or Nyte-
Nyte: did you not see point number six?  This post does not apply to you
T.Frassini
Member
+0|7306|Brazil
Nice guide. +1 for you my friend.

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