Well Syria and Iran will never help but Lebanon didn't even have a chance to draw breath let alone give help before the Israelis had gatecrashed their country.kr@cker wrote:
good point, but how many times do they have to ask for these gevernmetns to do something about it before doing something themselves?
CameronPoe
"Fair & Balanced"
NOT
"Fair & Balanced"
NOT
Its hard to "operate" with dignity and respect when your country is being attacked. And as for combating 'guerilla with guerilla'... is that like Hamas and the rest do when they blow up buses and markets? They're addressing the root causes of their problems by killing the people who just want to live their lives quietly? When they blow themselves to pieces with a suicide bomb, they're acting rationally are they? When they fire rockets blindly into towns, thats being reasonable is it?CameronPoe wrote:
How about staying their hand for once and operating with dignity and respect. Then combat the guerrilla elements with counter-guerrilla warfare - not conventional warfare. Addressing the root causes of the problems that give rise to guerrilla warfare might also help - but we all know the Israelis are incapable of such rational and reasonable action.
This next sentence is very complex so i'll warn you now to take your time when you read it... they are both as bad as each other... as long as either side exists, there will be no peace. Is that really too difficult to grasp?
Last edited by Jainus (2006-07-13 06:00:43)
We got anought off this shit! We want bomb them, and we will bomb them! And we dont fucking care about theyr childrens, like they dont care about ours! Sinice yestarday we dont want PEACE with arabs!
They assassinated the former prime minister, Hariri. Did you miss the part where Syria occupied Lebanon? They're not the greatest of friends.voltage wrote:
Last time I checked Lebanon was a independent (at least formally) country in process of cutting their ties with Syria (due to the murder of some Lebanese politician) and developing their democracy. Lets hope they don't jump rightup in Syrias lap again because of this.
Seems to me Israel is trying to get to Hezbollah by attacking a third party (Lebanon) and scare them to take actions against Hezbollah. That's pretty much the definition of the t-word.
unfortunately i think that you are 100% correctJainus wrote:
Its hard to "operate" with dignity and respect when your country is being attacked. And as for combating 'guerilla with guerilla'... is that like Hamas and the rest do when they blow up buses and markets? They're addressing the root causes of their problems by killing the people who just want to live their life quietly? When they blow themselves to pieces with a suicide bomb, they're acting rationally are they? When they fire rockets blindly into towns, thats being reasonable is it?CameronPoe wrote:
How about staying their hand for once and operating with dignity and respect. Then combat the guerrilla elements with counter-guerrilla warfare - not conventional warfare. Addressing the root causes of the problems that give rise to guerrilla warfare might also help - but we all know the Israelis are incapable of such rational and reasonable action.
This next sentence is very complex so i'll warn you now to take your time when you read it... they are both as bad as each other... as long as either side exists, there will be no peace. Is that really too difficult to grasp?
Concentrate hard on this sentence: I don't condone blowing up civilians. It's exactly what I'm criticising Israel about - why would I support some bunch of equally evil people from doing it? Read what I write not what you want please.Jainus wrote:
Its hard to "operate" with dignity and respect when your country is being attacked. And as for combating 'guerilla with guerilla'... is that like Hamas and the rest do when they blow up buses and markets? They're addressing the root causes of their problems by killing the people who just want to live their lives quietly? When they blow themselves to pieces with a suicide bomb, they're acting rationally are they? When they fire rockets blindly into towns, thats being reasonable is it?
This next sentence is very complex so i'll warn you now to take your time when you read it... they are both as bad as each other... as long as either side exists, there will be no peace. Is that really too difficult to grasp?
Aha - Someone actually from Israel confirming that the Israelis are EQUALLY as bad as arab militants. QEDLisik wrote:
We got anought off this shit! We want bomb them, and we will bomb them! And we dont fucking care about theyr childrens, like they dont care about ours! Sinice yestarday we dont want PEACE with arabs!
The original injustice was whose sorry? Where do you think this all began? When the land was taken by the Arabs from the Jews or does that bit not count as it doesn't help your case?CameronPoe wrote:
No that's not true - anti-civilian acts are unjust. But I say deal with the original injustice first (the casting out of their homes of millions of Palestinians, without compensation).
Well Syria and Iran will never help but Lebanon didn't even have a chance to draw breath let alone give help before the Israelis had gatecrashed their country.
And also, you seem to have a very short memory, but i'm sure there was something a little while ago about the President of Iran saying something about Israel and wiping off the map... no can't remember the story there. Perhaps Cameron you can tell us all how that was rational and acting with dignity? Go on please try and justify that, i haven't had a good laugh today yet.
And i've just seen your reply to my earlier post, i am reading what your writing, your blaming Israel for doing exactly the same as the other side. How is that fair and balanced. I'm not saying what Israel did was right but you can't pretend that its only Israel killing civilians
Last edited by Jainus (2006-07-13 06:11:44)
is it me or does the hole middle east hate Israelidelta4bravo*nl* wrote:
Im sick of crazy muslims, nuke em all.
Jainus give me a break? You expect me to justify Iranian assertions about Israel that I personally don't endorse. You are rash and guilty of presuming too much about my opinions - you have just stereotyped me along with some particular grouping of people you have in your own mind. Look up some of my other posts on Israel.Jainus wrote:
The original injustice was whose sorry? Where do you think this all began? When the land was taken by the Arabs from the Jews or does that bit not count as it doesn't help your case?CameronPoe wrote:
No that's not true - anti-civilian acts are unjust. But I say deal with the original injustice first (the casting out of their homes of millions of Palestinians, without compensation).
Well Syria and Iran will never help but Lebanon didn't even have a chance to draw breath let alone give help before the Israelis had gatecrashed their country.
And also, you seem to have a very short memory, but i'm sure there was something a little while ago about the President of Iran saying something about Israel and wiping off the map... no can't remember the story there. Perhaps Cameron you can tell us all how that was rational and acting with dignity? Go on please try and justify that, i haven't had a good laugh today yet.
And i've just seen your reply to my earlier post, i am reading what your writing, your blaming Israel for doing exactly the same as the other side. How is that fair and balanced. I'm not saying what Israel did was right but you can't pretend that its only Israel killing civilians
What does Iran acting irrationally have to do with justifying Israel acting irrationally? Two wrongs make a right? I don't think so.
OK Jainus - answer me this: did Israel kill a number of civilians in their latest incursion into Lebanon? Of course Hezbollah and Hamas are guilty of same in the past but that doesn't justify state sponsored carrying out of same. Not to mention the disproportionate use of force to some purpose I cannot as yet fathom.
Give me a proper response and I'll retort.5N1P3R wrote:
CameronPoe
"Fair & Balanced"
NOT
Also in response to the original post:
What state should be held responsible for the actions of its citizens? Syria Lebanon and Iran must be held accountable for the actions of the organizations that it directly supports.
For instance if the Dall was directly funding an Irish (language) only separatist group in Co. Clare, or Co. Kerry, and this group kidnapped some ministers from Co. Galway and hid them on one of their Islands, would the Guardi not have the right to search high and low for these hostages?
Now this is not to say that Israel should bomb every parcel of land between the border and the target, killing everyone in its wake, but to say that the State of Israel does not have the right to respond to these attacks is silly.
The debate that can not be won is over the question of provocation. Are these kidnappings by Hammas, and Hezbolah provoked? I would say no; I would assert that they took these actions upon themselves unilaterally in order to provide a means to a gain (freeing prisoners). I would say that Hezbolah also saw an opportunity to strike a blow to the "Zionists."
The other side of the debate would argue that Israel's existence, and especially its existence in the Palestinian territory is all the provocation in the world.
I wonder if it is because I live in the pro-Israel US, that I feel that Israel would rather have peace, and not attack its Arab neighbors, but that it is constantly put in a position to respond to one suicide/rocket attack or another. To be honest, kidnapping of soldiers is a BIG step up from sending a rocket across the border.
P.S. I lived in Tully Cross Co. Galway for a little while, so that's where those examples come from
What state should be held responsible for the actions of its citizens? Syria Lebanon and Iran must be held accountable for the actions of the organizations that it directly supports.
For instance if the Dall was directly funding an Irish (language) only separatist group in Co. Clare, or Co. Kerry, and this group kidnapped some ministers from Co. Galway and hid them on one of their Islands, would the Guardi not have the right to search high and low for these hostages?
Now this is not to say that Israel should bomb every parcel of land between the border and the target, killing everyone in its wake, but to say that the State of Israel does not have the right to respond to these attacks is silly.
The debate that can not be won is over the question of provocation. Are these kidnappings by Hammas, and Hezbolah provoked? I would say no; I would assert that they took these actions upon themselves unilaterally in order to provide a means to a gain (freeing prisoners). I would say that Hezbolah also saw an opportunity to strike a blow to the "Zionists."
The other side of the debate would argue that Israel's existence, and especially its existence in the Palestinian territory is all the provocation in the world.
I wonder if it is because I live in the pro-Israel US, that I feel that Israel would rather have peace, and not attack its Arab neighbors, but that it is constantly put in a position to respond to one suicide/rocket attack or another. To be honest, kidnapping of soldiers is a BIG step up from sending a rocket across the border.
P.S. I lived in Tully Cross Co. Galway for a little while, so that's where those examples come from
I didn't say Israel don't have a right to respond to the attack. I disagree with the response it gave.Shopvac wrote:
Also in response to the original post:
What state should be held responsible for the actions of its citizens? Syria Lebanon and Iran must be held accountable for the actions of the organizations that it directly supports.
For instance if the Dall was directly funding an Irish (language) only separatist group in Co. Clare, or Co. Kerry, and this group kidnapped some ministers from Co. Galway and hid them on one of their Islands, would the Guardi not have the right to search high and low for these hostages?
Now this is not to say that Israel should bomb every parcel of land between the border and the target, killing everyone in its wake, but to say that the State of Israel does not have the right to respond to these attacks is silly.
The debate that can not be won is over the question of provocation. Are these kidnappings by Hammas, and Hezbolah provoked? I would say no; I would assert that they took these actions upon themselves unilaterally in order to provide a means to a gain (freeing prisoners). I would say that Hezbolah also saw an opportunity to strike a blow to the "Zionists."
The other side of the debate would argue that Israel's existence, and especially its existence in the Palestinian territory is all the provocation in the world.
I wonder if it is because I live in the pro-Israel US, that I feel that Israel would rather have peace, and not attack its Arab neighbors, but that it is constantly put in a position to respond to one suicide/rocket attack or another. To be honest, kidnapping of soldiers is a BIG step up from sending a rocket across the border.
P.S. I lived in Tully Cross Co. Galway for a little while, so that's where those examples come from
Lebanon is NOT FUNDING Hezbollah - Syria and Iran are. This renders the analogy redundant (not to mention the fact that Hezbollah acts externally to Israel not from within).
You never have, that's why Israel has been murdering and displacing people for decades...Lisik wrote:
We got anought off this shit! We want bomb them, and we will bomb them! And we dont fucking care about theyr childrens, like they dont care about ours! Sinice yestarday we dont want PEACE with arabs!
Arabs threw the Jews out of Israel? I think you'll find they left of their own accord from success generations of oppressive overlords, the romans, assyrians, etc. Arabs and jews have both lived in the region for millennia. If you go way back the Jews didn't occupy Israel at all - they took it by force - prior to that it was called Canaan. But going back that far is stupid and futile. The injustice is the fact that the arabs of Palestine have paid with their homes and their dignity the price that should have been paid by Germany.Jainus wrote:
The original injustice was whose sorry? Where do you think this all began? When the land was taken by the Arabs from the Jews or does that bit not count as it doesn't help your case?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-07-13 06:36:34)
The land was originally owned by the Arabs, they were called Caananites back then (3rd Millenium). The Jews then massacred them and stole the land...Jainus wrote:
The original injustice was whose sorry? Where do you think this all began? When the land was taken by the Arabs from the Jews or does that bit not count as it doesn't help your case?CameronPoe wrote:
No that's not true - anti-civilian acts are unjust. But I say deal with the original injustice first (the casting out of their homes of millions of Palestinians, without compensation).
Well Syria and Iran will never help but Lebanon didn't even have a chance to draw breath let alone give help before the Israelis had gatecrashed their country.
And also, you seem to have a very short memory, but i'm sure there was something a little while ago about the President of Iran saying something about Israel and wiping off the map... no can't remember the story there. Perhaps Cameron you can tell us all how that was rational and acting with dignity? Go on please try and justify that, i haven't had a good laugh today yet.
And i've just seen your reply to my earlier post, i am reading what your writing, your blaming Israel for doing exactly the same as the other side. How is that fair and balanced. I'm not saying what Israel did was right but you can't pretend that its only Israel killing civilians
Get your facts straight.
the main problem are the muslim terrorism, every attack of them make a counterattack stronger and deadlyer,and terrorist live in cities surrounded by people and kids, so when they thow a missile for the terrorist always have collateral damage.
IF lebanon were intellingent they would not accepted the kidnappers.
i thought arabs started all the wars between 1950 and 1970
IF lebanon were intellingent they would not accepted the kidnappers.
i thought arabs started all the wars between 1950 and 1970
Last edited by aqempty (2006-07-13 06:38:59)
Alot of countries have not been biding by international law.CameronPoe wrote:
If the Israelis cannot abide by international law then I say fuck them.
By that logic, I say fuck Iran, and North Korea.
If we abandon israel, do we have permission to nuke Iran and North Korea? That's almost a tempting offer.
What is it with Israel that drives people nuts?
I think what gets people's goats about Israel is their arrogance and their brazenness. Despite many of their citizens having gone through the unimaginable horrors of the holocaust they have founded a state that required millions of people to be thrown out of their homes without even so much as a 'Thank You' note. Iran and North Korea have yet to commit an act of aggression against an external country (remember Iran-Iraq was Iranian defence and N. Korea considers S. Korea part of a greater Korea), whereas the very basis of Israel's existence was the annexation of a part of the middle east and that riles people too. The fact that for some mysterious reason Israel is immune to all UN action because of the US veto really annoys people too. It seems the jews in USA are 'punching above their demographic weight' with respect to US politics.Erkut.hv wrote:
Alot of countries have not been biding by international law.CameronPoe wrote:
If the Israelis cannot abide by international law then I say fuck them.
By that logic, I say fuck Iran, and North Korea.
If we abandon israel, do we have permission to nuke Iran and North Korea? That's almost a tempting offer.
What is it with Israel that drives people nuts?
in 1947 the UN separed the country in two parts, guess who started to kill enemy civilians?the arabs.
one day later of being created the state of israel in 1948 5 COUNTRIES attacked it and they defended who started it?the arabs.
in 1967 like all the old tries of USA for enter in war egipt syria and jordania moved all the troops to the limit of their countries so who wanted to start the war of six days?
they are just animals, they wont stop until they reach their goals or are all dead.
they hate israel because they are helped by US,
russia do worse things agaisnt Chechnya for petrol, and they dont appear on the news like US does for irak
one day later of being created the state of israel in 1948 5 COUNTRIES attacked it and they defended who started it?the arabs.
in 1967 like all the old tries of USA for enter in war egipt syria and jordania moved all the troops to the limit of their countries so who wanted to start the war of six days?
they are just animals, they wont stop until they reach their goals or are all dead.
they hate israel because they are helped by US,
russia do worse things agaisnt Chechnya for petrol, and they dont appear on the news like US does for irak
Last edited by aqempty (2006-07-13 06:59:00)
I think you'll find the UN partition plan was not agreed. A civil war ensued, which Israel won, that gave Israel a state that was substantially larger than the one that the UN had proposed for them. When it seemed the jewish immigrants had been successful in securing a state for themselves THEN other countries began to recognise Israel. Get your facts straight.aqempty wrote:
in 1947 the UN separed the country in two parts, guess who started to kill enemy civilians?the arabs.
one day later of being created the state of israel in 1948 5 COUNTRIES attacked it and they defended who started it?the arabs.
in 1967 like all the old tries of USA for enter in war egipt syria and jordania moved all the troops to the limit of their countries so who wanted to start the war of six days?
they are just animals, they wont stop until they reach their goals or are all dead.
Always fight injustice - never give up. I trust the arabs won't. Hopefully they can do it with a little more decorum and honour though. The arabs are like animals? Kind of like how Hitler viewed the jews you mean? That's very nice.
you guys need a living away from the pc...........
go to the beach, mountains or lake and relax for a few days.
what are you trying to do with these topcis? most of them come down on the same shit, war and religion.
go to the beach, mountains or lake and relax for a few days.
what are you trying to do with these topcis? most of them come down on the same shit, war and religion.
Iran and North Korea do not continually murder people to steal their land like Israel. Why is it that Israel ignores EVERY UN resolution passed against them? Why is it that Israel took Jerusalem for its own when the UN said NO, it wasn't theirs to take? Why oh why oh why?Erkut.hv wrote:
Alot of countries have not been biding by international law.CameronPoe wrote:
If the Israelis cannot abide by international law then I say fuck them.
By that logic, I say fuck Iran, and North Korea.
If we abandon israel, do we have permission to nuke Iran and North Korea? That's almost a tempting offer.
What is it with Israel that drives people nuts?
Why is it that Israel feels they can do whatever they want at everyone elses's expense when the world says it's wrong?
They are the only country in the world that is a member of the UN that acts this way...
not all arabs are animals only the ignorants with nothing better to do than going to a city and blow themselves, the problems of these countries is the ignocance and the brain washing that some sects does, that make then into animals send to kill without thinking, in irak u have more than 30 exaples of arab-animals killing other arabs because isnt adepts of their sect(sunii's agaist chii's)