Stags
Member
+26|7131
Seems insignificant to me.  Although it is conforting to know that they are slightly off and that I'm not going insane.  Being that much off only really factorys in at range.  BTW, seems that the true center is to the right of the scope in each picture.

I want to see another person do the same thing, just to make sure it isn't any inaccuracy in the ruler or pixels.
Rick_O_Shea678
Angry Engy
+95|7228

DeathsTouch wrote:

I was slightly bored today, so I go in a pub, spawn as MEC, and decide to go pistol sniping.
I usually just order a Guinness...

...anyway, great info.  Thanks for the effort.
DeathsTouch
Team NHB
+35|7130|Los Angeles, CA

Stags wrote:

Seems insignificant to me.  Although it is conforting to know that they are slightly off and that I'm not going insane.  Being that much off only really factorys in at range.  BTW, seems that the true center is to the right of the scope in each picture.

I want to see another person do the same thing, just to make sure it isn't any inaccuracy in the ruler or pixels.
Well, what I did was I took a screenshot (800x600), drew the line at 400x600 and 800x300 in order to assure perfect middle, and then simply saved it. Now, how could there be an inaccuracy?
Stags
Member
+26|7131
Just checking.  Sometimes, there is inaccuracy.  It happens, I look at every angel before I make a desision (if possible). 

If that is so, then the aim is off by about 1 pixel or maybe 2 for most of the guns.
Raptor1
Member
+19|6963
i noticed that with the pistol, but not so much with the other weapons, besides, i just point and fire. kinda rubbed off from paintballing
TwistedX
Aviator
+26|7269|Oklahoma
This is how x-hairs are for most games, that i have noticed from my old sprite makin days. But, it is not enough to completly throw off your shots, It is only on pixle length off as Stags mention'd. And i adapded to it.
pwned7
Member
+53|7054
yeha i noticed this. this basically just means everytime im MEC i adjust the iron site of the handgun do aim a little less down. just accept it. the US pistol is dead accurate with the iron site. as well as the chiness handgun. the only one i have noticed to be of centre is the MEC silenced and non silenced pistol. this is obvious for me becasue the pistol is the only thing that saves snipers
Mr. Bondt
The name was Bondt...
+6|7050|The Netherlands
batman1029
>_>
+8|7002|Essex, Ontario, Canada
i personally like the MR-444, i hit people alot with it
gene_pool
Banned
+519|7096|Gold coast, Aus.
+1 for your efforts and I say a sticky/feature/wiki?

Good accurate (lawls at pun) information.
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7099|Birmingham, UK

gene_pool wrote:

+1 for your efforts and I say a sticky/feature/wiki?

Good accurate (lawls at pun) information.
I'll back up that sticky! Great work!
I.M.I Militant
We Are Not Alone In Here
+297|7194|Melbourne, Australia
lol nice find
lord_tyler_486
Member
+54|7227|Upper Franconia
You missed something. I did this too once, to find out why the M95 appears to be less effected by bullet drop than the L96A1, it's because of the scope Position, but now, I'll explain.

A screen with resolution 1024×768 has an aspect ratio of 3/4, this is the same as for 800×600. 1280×1024 is also used often, has 5/4, not 4/3, meaning it is more like a square. 1152×864 is 3/4 also. 960×720 just sucks.

Okay so far? Look at a screen with resolution 1024×768. You have this.

Code:

1234567890123456
++++++++++++++++1
++++++++++++++++2
++++++++++++++++3
++++++++++++++++4
++++++++++++++++5
++++++++++++++++6
++++++++++++++++7
++++++++++++++++8
++++++++++++++++9
++++++++++++++++0
++++++++++++++++1
++++++++++++++++2
16/12, thats the same ratio as 1024/768, thus no problem with scaling down for this explanation.

Now let's find out the exact middle of this. You did not think about this exactly.

Now I dive the screen into four quarters. It will look like this:

Code:

12345678 90123456
++++++++ ++++++++1
+      + +      +2
+      + +      +3
+      + +      +4
+      + +      +5
++++++++ ++++++++6
        ×
++++++++ ++++++++7
+      + +      +8
+      + +      +9
+      + +      +0
+      + +      +1
++++++++ ++++++++2
The position of the × is the exact middle now right? Oh dear, it's BETWEEN 8 and 9 on the x-axis and BETWEEN 6 and 7 on the y-axis!

This slightly means that you can only draw the exact middle of the screen with a 2 pixel line! Yours was just 1 px, thus it's not the correct center.

As far as I can see this in your pictures, you would have marked the pixels 9 on x and 7 on y only.


What this actually means now??

M95 crosshair, your version is in the middle and mine to the right.
https://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/lt486/m95.png

Last edited by lord_tyler_486 (2006-08-11 12:37:39)

Mj.Blindfisch
Bulletdrop-Buddha
+338|7172|Germany
Thx,+1 Karma coming your way.

This is very helpful to me,I already have a black dot on my monitor for lining up shots with the unzoomed sniper rifle and for aiming with the pistol.
So I already knew that there's a deviation but you can't really see the deviation from the center when you have a black dot on a black crosshair.

EDIT:After checking the sniper rifles again I have to say that the pictures explain the myth that the M95 has the least (!) bulletdrop,like some people stated,at least that's what I think from what I could see in the pictures.I run the game in 1280x1024 and there it is like this.
All rifles are one pixel off to the right,which means that you have to aim one pixel to the left if you take the scope as dead-on center(not the true center,which is 1 pixel off to the right!).
But if you check each crosshairs' horizontal line you can see that the M24's and L96's horizontal lines are 2 pixels thick and the added colored line covers the lower row of pixels,the M95's horizontal line is 3 pixels thick and sticks out over and below the added colored line,which is centered exactly on the middle row of pixels.
This means that:
1) M24/L96 have the exact same bulletdrop when using the ingame scope-crosshairs.
2)When you aim with the M95 it looks as if the M95 has less drop although in reality(according to the added colored crosshairs) you have moved the same distance as if you had used a M24 or L96.
The M95 crosshairs are simply just too fat.

Last edited by Mj.Blindfisch (2006-08-11 07:14:08)

Shadow893
lel
+75|7167|England
Wow, interesting stuff. So eoth the L96A1 you should aim one pixel to the left to make it true center?
Mj.Blindfisch
Bulletdrop-Buddha
+338|7172|Germany

Shadow893 wrote:

Wow, interesting stuff. So eoth the L96A1 you should aim one pixel to the left to make it true center?
At least to me it is that way.

In the L96A scope picture you can see that the added colored vertical line(the true center) is one pixel off to the right.
Now if you use your scope as center and trust that it is zeroed in accurately you will to miss headshots on ranges where the target's head has the size of one pixel(->the bullet will pass him on the right side of the head.)
But if you compensate by positioning your visible scope one pixel to the left you'll be dead-on,although it looks like the bullet would pass him on the left side of the head.

Maybe dont_be_ss can confirm this,he almost makes a dead-on headshot every time(try to have a duel with this guy,really sucks.. ).

Last edited by Mj.Blindfisch (2006-08-11 07:28:00)

lord_tyler_486
Member
+54|7227|Upper Franconia

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:

Shadow893 wrote:

Wow, interesting stuff. So eoth the L96A1 you should aim one pixel to the left to make it true center?
At least to me it is that way.

In the L96A scope picture you can see that the added colored vertical line(the true center) is one pixel off to the right.
Now if you use your scope as center and trust that it is zeroed in accurately you will to miss headshots on ranges where the target's head has the size of one pixel(->the bullet will pass him on the right side of the head.)
But if you compensate by positioning your visible scope one pixel to the left you'll be dead-on,although it looks like the bullet would pass him on the left side of the head.

Maybe dont_be_ss can confirm this,he almost makes a dead-on headshot every time(try to have a duel with this guy,really sucks.. ).
U didn't read my post did u?
Mj.Blindfisch
Bulletdrop-Buddha
+338|7172|Germany

lord_tyler_486 wrote:

U didn't read my post did u?
Yeah,I read your post.
But I'm running the game on 1280x1024 and personally think that the M95 appears to have the least bulletdrop,what I've explained 2 or 3 posts above.

And the horizontal misplacement of the L96A1 is a fact,I think that I have enough sniper rifle kills to safely say that(most of them on 1280X1024)
The pictures just confirmed what I've believed in all the time.

You post leads to some questions and conclusions:

The pictures of your version would make the M95 have even less bulletdrop than the original poster's version.This kinda contradicts itself with your statement that the M95 appears to have the most bulletdrop.
I already explained my idea of why it looks like the M95 has the least(!) bulletdrop and when I look at the pictures of the original poster and compare that with my experience of all the rifles I think it is this way.

How can you aim at longrange if the actual center is between two pixels and the target has the size of a pixel?
I know "I can do it",but I know of the horizontal misplacement and place the scope one pixel to the left.

Is that even possible in a game to aim at a point which is between two pixels?
Doesn't sound logical to me,the monitor resolution is also the resolution of your "aiming grid"(you always move one pixel with your mouse,right?),so it's impossible to aim between two pixels.

You just added another row of pixels,which doesn't make your version more accurate if you can actually aim between pixels,the correct center would be exactly between your and the other version.

Do you know how many pixels thick the actual bullet is?

Last edited by Mj.Blindfisch (2006-08-11 08:18:50)

lord_tyler_486
Member
+54|7227|Upper Franconia

Mj.Blindfisch wrote:

The pictures of your version would make the M95 have even less bulletdrop than the original poster's version.This kinda contradicts itself with your statement that the M95 appears to have the most bulletdrop.
I apologize, I wanted to say that the M95 appears to has the least, not the most.... My brain was already at the explanation for the post, because it's not easy make it simple to understand what I have to say.

How can you aim at longrange if the actual center is between two pixels and the target has the size of a pixel?
I know "I can do it",but I know of the horizontal misplacement and place the scope one pixel to the left.
You can place one of the 4 pixels surrounding the center on the pixel where the head is and hope that the deviation makes it hit.

Is that even possible in a game to aim at a point which is between two pixels?
Yes.
Doesn't sound logical to me,the monitor resolution is also the resolution of your "aiming grid"(you always move one pixel with your mouse,right?),so it's impossible to aim between two pixels.
No, the Screen is not the "aiming grid". You look in a direction. Then the CPU calculates where the center is and what to send to the GFX Card. And THEN the actual screen is being constructed by the Graphics Card. That's also why sometimes the crosshairs are a pixel thicker in certain positions and view directions.

You just added another row of pixels,which doesn't make your version more accurate if you can actually aim between pixels,the correct center would be exactly between your and the other version.
Why should it be between mine and the other version? It's exactly where I have it in my version, the explanation above shows why. That's also the reason why DICE tried to use 2 pixels wide lines for the horizontal bars in snipe scopes [M24/M95/L96]. To make it as neutral as possible. To disable horizontal misplacement. The vertical lines are not so important because there is bullet drop and this hushes the vertical misplacement.

Do you know how many pixels thick the actual bullet is?
Depends on how far it's away.

Last edited by lord_tyler_486 (2006-08-11 10:25:01)

Stags
Member
+26|7131
This is a very throughout explanation.  Very good.   What a great way to wake up in the morning.
Mj.Blindfisch
Bulletdrop-Buddha
+338|7172|Germany

lord_tyler_486 wrote:

Why should it be between mine and the other version?
Simply because I get headshots with the L96/M24 when I aim one pixel to the left.
If your position were absolutely right I would miss,wouldn't I?



Do you know how many pixels thick the actual bullet is?
Depends on how far it's away.
So it actually changes caliber during flight? 7.62mm stays 7.62mm,no matter how far away it is,right?
I was asking in the first place because if the bullet has half the size of a pixel or even more the "real" center could in fact lie between both versions.

Last edited by Mj.Blindfisch (2006-08-11 11:39:56)

Highpwr_BF2
Member
+1|7104

lord_tyler_486 wrote:

12/8, thats the same ratio as 1024/768, thus no problem with scaling down for this explanation.
Close but not quite;

12/8 = 1.5
1024/768 = 1.33333.....................

I think your idea got passed on, i'd recommend using a calculator next time before getting all professor like on someones ass.
DeathsTouch
Team NHB
+35|7130|Los Angeles, CA
Thanks for the posts guys. I appreciate all of the compliments and feedback.
Gulf_War_Syndrome
OMG ERYX HAX!
+62|7154|Adelaide, Australia
Great post. After playing for many, many hours I've worked out most of this myself, but it's good to see it confirmed in this way.

For example, I rocket snipe. I always thought the SRAW was crap until I realised the aiming reticle was off. Looking at the ERYX vs. SRAW pics, there it is: the SRAW hits below the centre of the crosshair.

Thanks again for your effort.
[n00b]Tyler
Banned
+505|7069|Iceland
nice but i knew every single 1 of em.

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