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2006-08-15 10:08:18
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7038

I have to say, I'm amazed at how bullshit free this thread has managed to remain. That's probably a first for Debate and Serious Talk.

Anyway, I do think a lot of the Americans on here do have a pretty good idea of what is disliked about their country. It's only small aspects of it however, as I do really like America, and personally, I find it a more interesting place to live than the Netherlands, where I live right now. (Not to say that the Netherlands does not have certain plus points )
I think the only thing that jumps to mind really that I haven't seen posted, is the mindless patriotism that you seem to get from a lot of Americans here. I don't know if they are really like that, or if they just feel cool as no one can kick their ass over the web, as personally I have not met many Americans that are like that. But yeah, that is something that  does bother me.
2006-08-15 10:14:54
ht_fly
Member
+6|6855|Chicago
One last perspective.

I think the world is disgruntle with the United States of America which is a republic not a democracy(They old fools who wrote the constitution, did so, so that the god damm mob would not rule the country with their stupid passions of the moment) because of our abundance of dairy products. Yes cheese and milk!

Remember a popular election means dick, the electoral college picks the president and the president does not retain all the power. MMMmmmm. Congressman and senators are the real power, but must idiots never fully read the Constitution. Did you know good old Washington, that being GW made ice cream for guest! MMmmmm! Dairy products!

I think Europe does not like America sometimes because we fail to oblige by the European Commissions articles on trade and still use names like FETA and PARAMA on cheese labels even though the cheese does not come from there.
The burns the Greeks and the Dagos(I can use this word since my forefathers where rightly kicked out of Italy for being rebels and black shirts).

Now if we shared our cheese with the rest of the world with our other fine dairy products, it would bring a misty tear to my eye and then we would have no terrorist since most of the population would turn out to be lactose intolerant and sitting on the can.

But that is just a dream, like if the Irish did not drink whiskey, they surely would rule the world(Do not get mad, their is a book on this subject and it states that they would have colonized 3/4 of the world, be it not for distilled beverages being available.

But then again, I could be full of shit or cheese!


Oh, mindless patriotism. We never had a bad outcome from our experiences with nationalism as some other countries have had in the past. mmmmmm! Germany, Japan, France, Italy all had problems with nationalism at one time. Some got burned others decided it was not wise. But American Nationalism = patriotism, not bad if you live in the states, but from someone outside it looks like a rabid Arsenal Fan!

ht_fly
Weather today in Chicago is a high of 84 with a clear sky and hot young ladies! MMMMmmmm!

Cheese

Last edited by ht_fly (2006-08-15 10:21:04)

2006-08-15 10:19:20
JahManRed
wank
+646|7017|IRELAND

I'm also an Irish man, but living in Northern Ireland and I hate American foreign policies but generally love the American ppl. Like Poe ive been there many times and have many friends there. There is a big difference between the two. I have great disdain for Britain's involvement in the war and Ireland's reforming corrupt government. (I hold an Irish & British Passport so I feel I can comment on both) I am equally as vocal about them all. But please don't misinterpret disdain for policies as disdain for the populous. Poe has made this clear, like me many times in the past. Stop the blind patriotism. I am critical of my government, its every citizens duty to be. Keep them on their toes I say.

Last edited by JahManRed (2006-08-15 10:20:35)

2006-08-15 10:23:41
ht_fly
Member
+6|6855|Chicago
I do not know who said it, but a government should be afraid of its people and not the people afraid of the government. Unless they withhold cheese and dairy products! Then it is all out war!

Todays flavor of cheese will be MUNSTER!

ht_fly
2006-08-15 10:31:12
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|7035
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/deathbym0nkeyz/ironing-transfer.jpg
2006-08-15 10:35:08
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7155|UK

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd like American citizens to post the reasons they reckon people from Europe (and elsewhere) are generally disgruntled with USA at the moment. We (the rest of the world) can then iron out any misconceptions you might have. Do not post irrational garbage and do not drag this into some kind of flame war or else I'll delete the thread. I merely wish to break down any understanding barriers that might interfere with rational debate elsewhere on this forum.
I always thought you hated only England ,you seem to bitch about us all the time .
You are speaking in generalisations again. I detest the fact your country occupies a small part of my country but that doesn't extend to outright hatred of everything and everyone English.
Im not even gunna get involved in this debate Cameron, but you say "my" country, quite clearly the land has been UK territory for a long time, therefore it isnt your land, you only say that because its the only part of your island that isn't in your country.

Either way wtf does it matter who owns "land" when human civilisation is gone the "land" is still gunna be there unchanged thus making the dispute over it entirely pointless.
2006-08-15 10:39:00
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7155|UK

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


I never said your troops didn't get shit but I mean what do they expect.
They and i have to do a job over there and you blame the wrong people for what has/is happening over there .Only a retard like you would enjoy seeing other people getting hurt for doing there job .If it was up to me i would pull them out and let the thick poeple like you sort it out for yourselfs .
Hey man - the government of England would love to pull out as soon as they possibly could but unfortunately they can't. There are next to no troops in the north now anyway and the IRA has decommissioned its weapons so what are you cyring about? How would you react if Germany won the battle of Britain? Would you sit there and diligently learn German? Please put yourselves momentarily in an Irishmans shoes and try and empathise.
Ok i put myself in the majority of NI ppl, THEY WANT TO BE PART OF THE UK! A time minority want to rejoin NI and its them and some very sick Irish people that did go around blowing other people up who realy had no choice in the matter.
2006-08-15 10:51:21
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6880|Menlo Park, CA

Bertster7 wrote:

Dersmikner wrote:

Probably for the same reason that the losers hated the popular in high school. Mr. Popular had more money, better women, better looks, was more athletic and generally excelled at everything, and he was a dick about it.

Should he have been a dick about the fact that he had the edge? Of course not. But so it was, and so it remains. In high school I tried to be cool to everyone, even the people I didn't know from Adam, whether they knew me or not, and it seemed they like me for that.

Unfortunately most Americans can't get past the "hey we're the shit" thing. The rest of the world knows we're the shit. We've got the bombs, the planes, the economy, the space program, the influence, the money, all of it. Our poor people are better off than some other countries' rich. No need to rub anyone's nose in it. Sadly, most of us do.

The rest of the world is the Library Club. We are Biff McPopular. Most of us don't handle it the way we should. It's much cooler when you don't rub everyone's nose in how cool you are...
Oh dear, yet another reason people in Europe get pissed off by Americans. Not because of all the things American's have, but because you think you've got it all and are so great (not all American's do, but some). Do you really believe you have it so much better than people in Europe? In fact quality of life in Europe is actually higher than in the US. Here is the list of the top 10 countries for quality of life according to the Economist magazine http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4020523.stm (for 2004, couldn't be bothered to find an up to date one)

1 Ireland
2 Switzerland
3 Norway
4 Luxembourg
5 Sweden
6 Australia
7 Iceland
8 Italy
9 Denmark
10 Spain

Notice that 9 of the top 10 are in Europe. The US is down in 13th place.

Yet many American's seem to think they have a monopoly on freedom and high quality of life, which is bullshit.

fadedsteve wrote:

I know that Europe isnt soft, because it has been embroiled in centuries of warfare, and most europeans are tough skinned individuals.

Everyone is different, god knows we Americans have misconceptions about other Americans from certain parts of America itself!!

Personally, I dont like how Europe acts like were idiots, because were not! We have a thriving economy, a progressive modern society, a strong organized military, not too mention we entertain the world with Hollywood films/shows etc.

Misconceptions are easy, its called sterotyping!!!!! Whether its racial or social, misconceptions are little sterotypes we have about the other people (in this case those from other countries) walking around us!!
Those centuries and centuries of warfare, I believe, have shown European governments that war is bad and to be avoided. America as a younger nation has been involved in wars throughout it's history. Bush (not America, because most American leaders since the end of the cold war have seemed quite sensible about wars) needs to grow up and stop causing trouble on the international stage.

That said, I totally appreciate what you are saying about misconceptions and how Europeans (especially the filthy French, don't take it personally - they look down on everyone) look down on America. This is because Europeans are always hearing stories and seeing stupid American things, it creates a biased perspective. TV evangelists, Mormons, Bush the fact that Evolution is not taught in some American schools - things like these give the impression that Americans are idiots - they clearly aren't if you look at their achievements over the years, which have been impressive. It is easy to see how these stereotypes can be formed and talking to a lot of Americans on here does reinforce that impression.

Although I think you are slightly wrong in one of your statements "We have a thriving economy", because the US economy, whilst it is very big, is in a state of rapid decline. It is in a state of decline because of Bush and his increases in spending and tax cuts - which don't make economic sense.
How do tax cuts NOT make sense,  you guys in Europe pay SOOOO much in taxes its rediculous!! Yes you guys have a better quality of life in your tiny countries.  Ireland is a SMALL island, its not hard if you play your cards right, to have a society where everyone lives reasonably well. Also the Irish LUCKED out by adopting the Euro, which INSTANTLY improved the economy there!!!

THIS IS THE USA, we are a huge country, and if we adopted the socialist redistribution of wealth policy, we would go bankrupt TOMORROW!!  The other thing is religion in the USA is more pronounced in Europe, christian values are a cornerstone of our constitution and way of life! YES mormons are fucking nuts, but we Americans think they are crazy too!! Also most Americans think religious wackos in our own country are crazy just like the Europeans, so I dont think those are good arguments!!

Bush is a typical Texan politican, LBJ (Lydon Baines Johnson) was stubborn and stuck to his guns too!! Remember the worst war America has fought, that cost billions of dollars, was Vietnam.  Funny how no one brings up that war, maybe because the democrats started that one. . . That war was WAY more damaging to our country than the Iraq war, in terms of everything.  Iraq will eventually work its way out, vietnam was lost before it began!!

Either way, were all supposed to be allies, allied against those who would do each other wrong.  We all share a common thread of freedom and democracy.  We all like to party, work hard, and enjoy our lives free of Islamic extremism.  Europeans need to join the team on the war on terror, because we cant go at it alone!! I have said that from the beginning, allies should back each other up! Strap a nut sack and beat some terrorist ass with the good ole boys from the USA!!!
2006-08-15 10:58:52
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7155|UK
If inflation isnt controlled it goes out of control and you get a regression.

That is why taxes are controlled.
2006-08-15 11:12:12
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6880|Menlo Park, CA
Our taxes are controlled too, we have a thing called. .  .a federal interest rate, votes on which taxes should be added/taken away etc. .  .

The bottom line is Americans would NOT put up with the way Europeans put up with getting taxed!!!

When Bill Clinton was in office, he taxed us back to WWII levels!!!! Which were the highest they had ever been in the 20th century! It was outrageous, thats why our economy appeared to be strong etc.

In reality, it was more money going back into the government, then they were REDISTRIBUTING it to BS social programs that didnt do squat for anyone.  All that did was look good, cause the feds were hiring tons of people and giving them benefits!! TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE SLOWS THE ECONOMY!!

Why go out and buy something when your paycheck is getting taxed, and the store that you go to buy stuff in is taxing you as well??? Its simple economics!

You guys seem to put up with it, which in turn, discourages the entreprenurial atmosphere that we hold so dear here in America!!
2006-08-15 11:24:53
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6970|SE London

Cbnnttb wrote:

"France have the largest army in Europe.

"we saved you plenty of times ex. WWI, WWII not to mention we helped with vietnam"

Very inaccurate - WWI the US were hardly involved at all, they provided artillery and naval support to the British and French but refused to provide reinforcements - unless you were black, in which case you'd be shipped off to the French frontlines. - WWII the US stayed out of until the last minute, but were very helpful when they did get involved - Vietnam???? The French were long gone by the time the US did anything in Vietnam. The communist gorvernment (which is what the US went into Vietnam to overthrow) was only established after the departure of the French.

first of all size doesnt make a difference if the army cant complete its objective which brings up both world wars, if the US hadnt supported the french and british then germany could have won afterall that was the closest war in history, also in WW2 americans made all the difference had the US hadnt sided with the brits then the war would have seen the destruction of great britain mainly since the military would have still been desimated, therefore no france
finally in vietnam the french came to the americans for help and pulled out too early, the US still did its job
First of, the point I was making about France having the largest army in Europe was in response to Snowball's
point about saving budget for the country's development.

Bertster7 wrote:

Snowball1111 wrote:

"not having to need a large standing army because of good forign relations is a truely valuble position. This lack of need for offensive troops alows france to use more of it's budget for it's countries developement."
France have the largest army in Europe.
Which since they have the largest army in Europe is untrue.
I never claimed their army was any good - just large and expensive to maintain (you want to see my opinions on the French army check out the EU army thread).

The problem I have with Americans taking credit for WWI and WWII is that the Americans actually did very little in comparison to the other Allied powers (except France who were as shit at fighting as ever), the Americans were instrumental in both victories but all they did was provide the final push right at the end of each war - sitting on their arses until they realise their allies (who they're supposed to be helping) look like they might well lose and if they lose who's next - the US couldn't have taken on the German empire or the Axis powers single handedly and so getting involved in each of those wars when the US did was the best way for the US to stand up against their enemies and have some support. The soviets were far more important in winning WWII, but people seem to forget that, nor do Russians always go on about saving Europe in WWII - but they had much more manpower and better military tech, like the T-34 tank.

-See this is supposed to be a thread about European/American grievances - We were grateful for the help, although resent the US for not getting involved until actually attacked (Pearl Harbour) and the constant going on about it - when the bulk of WWII and almost all of WWI were fought without US involvement (apart from supplies).

I don't know enough about the origins of the Vietnam war to really argue my point, but I was under the impression the US went there as part of their campaign against communism when the communist government of Hồ Chí Minh took power. The communist government only took power after the French had left and I can find no references to the French being combatants in the Vietnam war.
2006-08-15 11:38:17
ht_fly
Member
+6|6855|Chicago
Guns or butter

Europe likes its butter(another dairy product) and spend less on guns.

America likes it guns, and spends less on butter.

Government priorities to the citzens is different based on political realities and what each voter finds important.

American vote with their wallets!
Europeans vote, well I don't know since I'm American.

Although I must say, political shifts do happen in every country and we are in the mist of having one here in the states. Either more left or more hardcore right.

It balances out in the end when we sit down and eat so smokey chedder!

Then again, I could be full of poo!

Last edited by ht_fly (2006-08-15 11:41:48)

2006-08-15 11:48:11
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6944

Vilham wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Knight`UK wrote:

They and i have to do a job over there and you blame the wrong people for what has/is happening over there .Only a retard like you would enjoy seeing other people getting hurt for doing there job .If it was up to me i would pull them out and let the thick poeple like you sort it out for yourselfs .
Hey man - the government of England would love to pull out as soon as they possibly could but unfortunately they can't. There are next to no troops in the north now anyway and the IRA has decommissioned its weapons so what are you cyring about? How would you react if Germany won the battle of Britain? Would you sit there and diligently learn German? Please put yourselves momentarily in an Irishmans shoes and try and empathise.
Ok i put myself in the majority of NI ppl, THEY WANT TO BE PART OF THE UK! A time minority want to rejoin NI and its them and some very sick Irish people that did go around blowing other people up who realy had no choice in the matter.
We shouldn't divert the topic at hand but I will say a couple of things:

1) It's all largely irrelevant given that we are all in the EU.
2) The minority is not tiny  - it will in fact become a majority within a few generations.
3) Large spans of time do not dilute an injustice.

Irrespective of this I don't hate British people or any such nonsense. Back to topic please.

PS You were supposed to 'put yourself in the shoes' of the 45% of people who don't want anything to do with the UK (the Irish people).

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-15 12:06:15)

2006-08-15 11:51:57
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6970|SE London

fadedsteve wrote:

Our taxes are controlled too, we have a thing called. .  .a federal interest rate, votes on which taxes should be added/taken away etc. .  .

The bottom line is Americans would NOT put up with the way Europeans put up with getting taxed!!!

When Bill Clinton was in office, he taxed us back to WWII levels!!!! Which were the highest they had ever been in the 20th century! It was outrageous, thats why our economy appeared to be strong etc.

In reality, it was more money going back into the government, then they were REDISTRIBUTING it to BS social programs that didnt do squat for anyone.  All that did was look good, cause the feds were hiring tons of people and giving them benefits!! TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE SLOWS THE ECONOMY!!

Why go out and buy something when your paycheck is getting taxed, and the store that you go to buy stuff in is taxing you as well??? Its simple economics!

You guys seem to put up with it, which in turn, discourages the entreprenurial atmosphere that we hold so dear here in America!!
That doesn't make any sense. You clearly don't have a very broad understanding of economics if you believe it is as simple as having a good economy because people buy more stuff.

Under Bush the US is getting deeper and deeper into debt, mostly to China. The tax cuts and increased spending do not work together. Look at the numbers. Economics is about spending less than you make, every year Bush has been in power the US government has spent more than it has made from tax revenue (it's only income source(taxes on purchases are included in this)). This cannot go on indefinately, China will want their money back. The more money the US borrow the more interest the nation is paying, the interest on $48 trillion (*edit* that might be wrong - but it's definitely $40 something trillion, might be $43 *edit2* yup sorry, it is $43 trillion not $48 trillion) is a LOT.

Look at the figures the US government, despite the massive ammounts of money they make, are poor - they are relying on loans from other countries.

fadedsteve wrote:

Either way, were all supposed to be allies, allied against those who would do each other wrong.  We all share a common thread of freedom and democracy.  We all like to party, work hard, and enjoy our lives free of Islamic extremism.  Europeans need to join the team on the war on terror, because we cant go at it alone!! I have said that from the beginning, allies should back each other up! Strap a nut sack and beat some terrorist ass with the good ole boys from the USA!!!
Maybe the Europeans are waiting till the last possible minute, when all America's lines of credit have run out and the US can no longer afford the war on terror (which at the current rate will happen in between 15 and 20 years) - and then they'll come in and save the day at the last possible minute, a bit like the US did in WWI and WWII.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-08-15 14:17:55)

2006-08-15 11:58:42
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6944

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

I am an Irishman living in the States and I love it here. I have been back several time to the awl sod but each time it gets harder to go back. Dublin (my home town) has turned into a shit hole (not that it wasnt when I left 14 years ago). My wife and children are American and my family and their friends love them and never a bad word or a negative action is put towards them (they know I will rip them limb from limb if they ever thought so)

Poe, I wonder why there is always a negativity towards the US in most of your posts? You live on the west coast....galway? Sligo? I know a lot of American companies on that side of the Isle. America has been the leading financeer in a lot of businesses in Ireland and has made it one of the fastest and porfitable countries in europe or the world for that matter. I just wanna know why the hate, dislike, general displeasure with the good ol' US of A?
Dude - you obviously haven't read many of my posts and for some reason you think I hate USA just like certain others on this forum. I have been to USA many times, spent a three month spell there even - I know what it's like. Nice for a holiday but not my cup of tea in terms of living somewhere. It has good and bad just like any country. I personally love Dublin City, where I have lived now for 10 years and I also love Ireland. It is a very different place from the one you left. Coming back for a fortnight's holidays will not exactly show you the differences. In fact, there are parts of ye olde Ireland that I do miss a lot, but you have to take the rough with the smooth.
The fact of the matter is that my beef is not with "America" or "USA" - it's with US foreign policy. Investment in Ireland from US companies does not give the US government a moral exemption from their recent acts on the international stage. I am a critic of US foreign policy, I couldn't care less about their domestic policy. When the sole superpower is making the world a more dangerous place to be, bankrolling terrorist states, subverting democracy in latin america and supporting puppet regimes in the middle east it makes me angry.
2006-08-15 12:30:05
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6880|Menlo Park, CA
Berster7-"Maybe the Europeans are waiting till the last possible minute, when all America's lines of credit have run out and the US can no longer afford the war on terror (which at the current rate will happen in between 15 and 20 years) - and then they'll come in and save the day at the last possible minute, a bit like the US did in WWI and WWII."

Bottom line is taxing the shit out of people doesnt exactly stimulate the economy. . . which was the point I was trying to make.  No matter what, the economy ebbs and flows regardless, it is a series of gains and losses.  I am just worried about China, but in reality China is due for a revolution within the next 20 years. 

By the way thats really nice of you guys to wait for us to "run our credit dry", so you can take advantage of it. . . . . . .which wont happen by the way! 

Nice allies we have. . . more like selfish pricks! We save your asses from speaking widespread German and Russian, and all you want is the demise of the USA??

F U!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2006-08-15 12:41:33)

2006-08-15 12:42:44
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7155|UK

fadedsteve wrote:

Our taxes are controlled too, we have a thing called. .  .a federal interest rate, votes on which taxes should be added/taken away etc. .  .

The bottom line is Americans would NOT put up with the way Europeans put up with getting taxed!!!

When Bill Clinton was in office, he taxed us back to WWII levels!!!! Which were the highest they had ever been in the 20th century! It was outrageous, thats why our economy appeared to be strong etc.

In reality, it was more money going back into the government, then they were REDISTRIBUTING it to BS social programs that didnt do squat for anyone.  All that did was look good, cause the feds were hiring tons of people and giving them benefits!! TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE SLOWS THE ECONOMY!!

Why go out and buy something when your paycheck is getting taxed, and the store that you go to buy stuff in is taxing you as well??? Its simple economics!

You guys seem to put up with it, which in turn, discourages the entreprenurial atmosphere that we hold so dear here in America!!
sorry but you quite literally know bugger all about econmics and its why america is entering a recession at the moment. Before you tell me it isnt, IT IS! Check any Economics or political program on TV or any good source on the internet.
2006-08-15 13:27:25
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6970|SE London

fadedsteve wrote:

Berster7-"Maybe the Europeans are waiting till the last possible minute, when all America's lines of credit have run out and the US can no longer afford the war on terror (which at the current rate will happen in between 15 and 20 years) - and then they'll come in and save the day at the last possible minute, a bit like the US did in WWI and WWII."

Bottom line is taxing the shit out of people doesnt exactly stimulate the economy. . . which was the point I was trying to make.  No matter what, the economy ebbs and flows regardless, it is a series of gains and losses.  I am just worried about China, but in reality China is due for a revolution within the next 20 years. 

By the way thats really nice of you guys to wait for us to "run our credit dry", so you can take advantage of it. . . . . . .which wont happen by the way! 

Nice allies we have. . . more like selfish pricks! We save your asses from speaking widespread German and Russian, and all you want is the demise of the USA??

F U!
That's exactly what I'm talking about. I draw a direct comparison to you helping out at the last possible minute in both world wars and say Europe could do the exact same thing and you go on about saving our arses in WWII, which is exactly what I was saying Europe may do in the war on terror - it's a direct comparison. Saying "Nice allies we have. . . more like selfish pricks!" - Is exactly the same as saying that the US were selfish pricks in WWII - which is not the point I was making.

You really do seem to have no grasp of economics. "Taxing the shit out of people" does not stimulate the economy , you are quite right. However spending more money than you make from tax revenue is just stupid. It is the same as spending more money than you earn, at the end of the year you will have debts - debts which need to be paid off. The next year you need to spend less (and you need to spend less than just the difference, because you need to pay the interest as well) to pay the debts back.
This is not what Bush is doing. He is spending more than America 'earns' each and every year of his presidency. The debts are accumulating and the interest is getting bigger. Getting rid of Alan Greenspan - who was an absolute legend in the world of economics, is practically the final nail in Americas economic coffin.
America's economy is currently very weak. Analysts are united in their opinion that America is headed for a reccession - the build up signs are almost identical to those of the Great Depression in 1929, although not global - just centralised around the US economy. This would have wide reaching consequences for the rest of the world, not as bad as the reprecussions for America.

American debt with the current budget gap stands at $160000 per person in the US. That's a lot of money to pay back. You'd better cut spending and raise taxes pretty damn soon or you'll be in trouble. America's mighty war machine won't do much good when you can't pay your soldiers or buy bombs or missiles.
2006-08-15 13:30:35
l41e
Member
+677|7037

Who cares what us Americans say? People are just going to find some idiotic excuse to keep blaming the US for all their troubles. "America sucks. America blows. America blah blah blah. Death to all Americans. I R t3h 1337 amerika-bash3r."
2006-08-15 13:38:46
Vindicarre
Member
+0|6854

Vilham wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

Our taxes are controlled too, we have a thing called. .  .a federal interest rate, votes on which taxes should be added/taken away etc. .  .

The bottom line is Americans would NOT put up with the way Europeans put up with getting taxed!!!

When Bill Clinton was in office, he taxed us back to WWII levels!!!! Which were the highest they had ever been in the 20th century! It was outrageous, thats why our economy appeared to be strong etc.

In reality, it was more money going back into the government, then they were REDISTRIBUTING it to BS social programs that didnt do squat for anyone.  All that did was look good, cause the feds were hiring tons of people and giving them benefits!! TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE SLOWS THE ECONOMY!!

Why go out and buy something when your paycheck is getting taxed, and the store that you go to buy stuff in is taxing you as well??? Its simple economics!

You guys seem to put up with it, which in turn, discourages the entreprenurial atmosphere that we hold so dear here in America!!
sorry but you quite literally know bugger all about econmics and its why america is entering a recession at the moment. Before you tell me it isnt, IT IS! Check any Economics or political program on TV or any good source on the internet.
Ahhh, I see. The U.S economy is growing at a rate unmatched by Europe (2.5% this quarter, 5.6% last). The estimations are for a 3.5% growth this year compared to 3.2% last year.

Let's compare that to Europe's largest economy, Germany's economy grew at .9% (even with the World Cup influx).

France? Their economy grew at twice the expected rate! That is a whopping 1.1-1.2%!

How about the UK?  Their economy grew at .8% this quarter...hmmm.

By the way the BBC headlines that accompanied these stories:

"Brakes Slam on US Economic Growth"
"UK's Economic Growth Accelerates"
"Germany's Economy Picks Up Speed"

No wonder people think they are well informed about economic growth; they only read the headlines.

As you can see this is my first post, when time permits, I'l address the OP's query.
2006-08-15 13:46:29
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7155|UK

Vindicarre wrote:

Vilham wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

Our taxes are controlled too, we have a thing called. .  .a federal interest rate, votes on which taxes should be added/taken away etc. .  .

The bottom line is Americans would NOT put up with the way Europeans put up with getting taxed!!!

When Bill Clinton was in office, he taxed us back to WWII levels!!!! Which were the highest they had ever been in the 20th century! It was outrageous, thats why our economy appeared to be strong etc.

In reality, it was more money going back into the government, then they were REDISTRIBUTING it to BS social programs that didnt do squat for anyone.  All that did was look good, cause the feds were hiring tons of people and giving them benefits!! TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE SLOWS THE ECONOMY!!

Why go out and buy something when your paycheck is getting taxed, and the store that you go to buy stuff in is taxing you as well??? Its simple economics!

You guys seem to put up with it, which in turn, discourages the entreprenurial atmosphere that we hold so dear here in America!!
sorry but you quite literally know bugger all about econmics and its why america is entering a recession at the moment. Before you tell me it isnt, IT IS! Check any Economics or political program on TV or any good source on the internet.
Ahhh, I see. The U.S economy is growing at a rate unmatched by Europe (2.5% this quarter, 5.6% last). The estimations are for a 3.5% growth this year compared to 3.2% last year.

Let's compare that to Europe's largest economy, Germany's economy grew at .9% (even with the World Cup influx).

France? Their economy grew at twice the expected rate! That is a whopping 1.1-1.2%!

How about the UK?  Their economy grew at .8% this quarter...hmmm.

By the way the BBC headlines that accompanied these stories:

"Brakes Slam on US Economic Growth"
"UK's Economic Growth Accelerates"
"Germany's Economy Picks Up Speed"

No wonder people think they are well informed about economic growth; they only read the headlines.

As you can see this is my first post, when time permits, I'l address the OP's query.
Yet again another person who doesnt know how the economic cycle works. Read and learn... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_cycle

All economies grow, however imagine a sin wave that is tilted at 30 degrees to it goes upwards. If you dont know what a sin wave is you should go back to school.
2006-08-15 14:07:28
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6970|SE London

Vindicarre wrote:

Vilham wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

Our taxes are controlled too, we have a thing called. .  .a federal interest rate, votes on which taxes should be added/taken away etc. .  .

The bottom line is Americans would NOT put up with the way Europeans put up with getting taxed!!!

When Bill Clinton was in office, he taxed us back to WWII levels!!!! Which were the highest they had ever been in the 20th century! It was outrageous, thats why our economy appeared to be strong etc.

In reality, it was more money going back into the government, then they were REDISTRIBUTING it to BS social programs that didnt do squat for anyone.  All that did was look good, cause the feds were hiring tons of people and giving them benefits!! TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE SLOWS THE ECONOMY!!

Why go out and buy something when your paycheck is getting taxed, and the store that you go to buy stuff in is taxing you as well??? Its simple economics!

You guys seem to put up with it, which in turn, discourages the entreprenurial atmosphere that we hold so dear here in America!!
sorry but you quite literally know bugger all about econmics and its why america is entering a recession at the moment. Before you tell me it isnt, IT IS! Check any Economics or political program on TV or any good source on the internet.
Ahhh, I see. The U.S economy is growing at a rate unmatched by Europe (2.5% this quarter, 5.6% last). The estimations are for a 3.5% growth this year compared to 3.2% last year.

Let's compare that to Europe's largest economy, Germany's economy grew at .9% (even with the World Cup influx).

France? Their economy grew at twice the expected rate! That is a whopping 1.1-1.2%!

How about the UK?  Their economy grew at .8% this quarter...hmmm.

By the way the BBC headlines that accompanied these stories:

"Brakes Slam on US Economic Growth"
"UK's Economic Growth Accelerates"
"Germany's Economy Picks Up Speed"

No wonder people think they are well informed about economic growth; they only read the headlines.

As you can see this is my first post, when time permits, I'l address the OP's query.
The US economy has grown, yes. That has nothing (well it does, because they are in part interlinked - economic expansion leading to higher tax revenues, but not if the rates are too low) to do with what we are talking about, which is budget deficits. Why do you think the $ is so weak at the moment? The US deficit for 2004 was $668.1 billion, in 2005 $804.9 billion (The Times), that's or each year individually by the way. Added together America's total debt is immense. The G8 have repeatedly told the US to implement 'fiscal consolidation', which is not an attempt to get at the American taxpayer, but an attempt to save the world economy from taking a massive blow when the US debt gets totally out of hand. Have you ever heard of super-inflation, if the dollar becomes worthless it doesn't matter how big the US economy is - it will collapse, take steps now and sort it out!

America's economy growing is not neccessarily a good thing. Unstable economic growth is very bad for a country's fiscal position. US imports massively outnumber US exports and that is not a good thing.
2006-08-15 14:17:00
smtt686
this is the best we can do?
+95|7020|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

I am an Irishman living in the States and I love it here. I have been back several time to the awl sod but each time it gets harder to go back. Dublin (my home town) has turned into a shit hole (not that it wasnt when I left 14 years ago). My wife and children are American and my family and their friends love them and never a bad word or a negative action is put towards them (they know I will rip them limb from limb if they ever thought so)

Poe, I wonder why there is always a negativity towards the US in most of your posts? You live on the west coast....galway? Sligo? I know a lot of American companies on that side of the Isle. America has been the leading financeer in a lot of businesses in Ireland and has made it one of the fastest and porfitable countries in europe or the world for that matter. I just wanna know why the hate, dislike, general displeasure with the good ol' US of A?
Dude - you obviously haven't read many of my posts and for some reason you think I hate USA just like certain others on this forum. I have been to USA many times, spent a three month spell there even - I know what it's like. Nice for a holiday but not my cup of tea in terms of living somewhere. It has good and bad just like any country. I personally love Dublin City, where I have lived now for 10 years and I also love Ireland. It is a very different place from the one you left. Coming back for a fortnight's holidays will not exactly show you the differences. In fact, there are parts of ye olde Ireland that I do miss a lot, but you have to take the rough with the smooth.
The fact of the matter is that my beef is not with "America" or "USA" - it's with US foreign policy. Investment in Ireland from US companies does not give the US government a moral exemption from their recent acts on the international stage. I am a critic of US foreign policy, I couldn't care less about their domestic policy. When the sole superpower is making the world a more dangerous place to be, bankrolling terrorist states, subverting democracy in latin america and supporting puppet regimes in the middle east it makes me angry.
evidently CameronPoe, i am not the only one who reads your posts and interpret them as anti and possibly bordering on hate towards the United States.  I would love to hear you defend this one!  And yes i HAVE read your posts and yes i really believe you really dont like the United States!
2006-08-15 14:22:53
Vindicarre
Member
+0|6854
Vilham:

I am more than adequately informed on the dynamics of economies to refute the insubstantial claims that have been posted here. Perhaps if you posted something to substantiate your claims, besides your opinions, then your posts would hold water; a link to Wiki doesn't accomplish that goal.

Well, seeing as you posted that link, which cycle are you referring to?
The Kitchin inventory? Or one based on Juglar? Perhaps the asset allocation cycle as proposed by Bronson? Are you using Solow as a reference point? Maybe Keynesian theory is more your preference? I assume you are not referencing the Kondratiev wave, as that would be not pertinent to this discussion being a supercycle and all... Please do let us know where your basis in saying that the US economy is declining and heading for collapse.
You would do better to use Okun's Law as an example, sadly that would not accomplish what you wish either, because the US unemployment rate is usually about half that of Europe.

To state that "all economies grow" is disingenuous. At what rate does the US economy need to grow for you to think it is not headed for recession? At what point will inflation cause that analysis to be false?

Perhaps the next time you attempt to use "go back to school" in your posts you should understand what you are referencing. The accepted term is "sine wave". As you are apparently enamored with Wiki:[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sine_wave[/url]
2006-08-15 15:06:09
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6970|SE London

Vindicarre wrote:

Vilham:

I am more than adequately informed on the dynamics of economies to refute the insubstantial claims that have been posted here. Perhaps if you posted something to substantiate your claims, besides your opinions, then your posts would hold water; a link to Wiki doesn't accomplish that goal.

Well, seeing as you posted that link, which cycle are you referring to?
The Kitchin inventory? Or one based on Juglar? Perhaps the asset allocation cycle as proposed by Bronson? Are you using Solow as a reference point? Maybe Keynesian theory is more your preference? I assume you are not referencing the Kondratiev wave, as that would be not pertinent to this discussion being a supercycle and all... Please do let us know where your basis in saying that the US economy is declining and heading for collapse.
You would do better to use Okun's Law as an example, sadly that would not accomplish what you wish either, because the US unemployment rate is usually about half that of Europe.

To state that "all economies grow" is disingenuous. At what rate does the US economy need to grow for you to think it is not headed for recession? At what point will inflation cause that analysis to be false?

Perhaps the next time you attempt to use "go back to school" in your posts you should understand what you are referencing. The accepted term is "sine wave". As you are apparently enamored with Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sine_wave
No one has made any claims about the growth of the US economy. You have stated the fact that it has grown at an impressive rate. However, the growth of the economy has not improved the governments fiscal position - which has got steadily worse and worse each year Bush has been in power.
The low taxation in part explains the economic growth the US has been experiencing lately, but the government have not been making sufficient tax revenue, even with this economic growth, to cover their costs.

The fact is that the US government has had a deficit every year since Bush came to power. Each year the deficit is larger and larger (it has in fact, reached record levels). Under Clinton the US government had a surplus. Those are the facts. If the US government continues to lose money at the same rate, the US economy is headed for disaster.

Have a look at this article from the economics section of the Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, … 33,00.html

Or this article from Macleans.
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/world … 541_101541

I am not trying to make claims about your understanding of economics, but simply stating the facts. The facts are that under Bush the US government has been spending more money than it can afford to. This will have reprecussions.

 

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