JohnnySupreme
Member
+23|6951
First, I almost always play as engineer and I am often the single most important and effective player in a round.  This may sound a little arrogant but please let me explain.

I think many people underestimate the power of the engineer and how effective he can be in both defence and offence.  However, I think 'defence' is the key here because most players will not defend an area or flag, instead they would rather skip off to the next flag or run like a paramedic on speed towards the nearest half dead person in order to get their precious "revive point".

On Karkand, on a 64 or 32 player round there are 2 key areas for me.  Both are at the Train Wreck, one at the actual flag and the other at the shallow river crossing.  The reason is that these are the only 2 crossing points for all the armour.  If you can keep the armour out of half or most of the map then your own armour can easily dominate.  This is where the engineer as his mines come in (a neaby supply crate is also helpful for rearming). 

If you think about your mine placement in these areas it is easy to hide them from oncoming vehicles.  Never just scatter mines, that is a complete waste because the enemy will see them and simply drive around them.  As I say... 'HIDE THEM'.  Look at the ground around you and think about the direction the enemy will be coming from.  There are always areas where they won't see the mines, places like; downward slopes, train tracks and in other areas/maps; bushes, shallow water and long grass.

Once you have both exit points mined properly you should get a few kills as the tanks and APCs respawn and head back to battle.  You might even be lucky and get an APC with a full squad in it!  So, as the mines are hit by vehicles you must replace them to keep them back.  I often find that the same player will hit the mines 2 or 3 times before giving up, getting out to disarm them or trying to drive around them.  Using this tactic and a fair bit of patience you can effectively win the round for your team.  I know this because I have tested it playing as both MEC and USMC and found that we won the round 9 out of 10 times.  The only downside is that I dont get a huge amount of points for my efforts.
The_Jester
Member
+52|6947|Italy

JohnnySupreme wrote:

The reason is that these are the only 2 crossing points for all the armour.
Not entirely true.
APC's can go in the water and reach the east side of the map from another ramp.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7118|USA
Well said. Nothing new but nice post supporting the underpicked and underutilized Engineer class. I just started really fooling with it to get my time up and its alot of fun. Espcially the large Chinese maps; Dragon Valley, Daqing. Just cruise beside your armor convoy in a jeep and voila, repair whore. It really pisses the opponent off.

"3 rockets in him and he lives!!! WTF!!!" I love it.

Also on Daqing, take all flags, sneak into the uncap and mine all of the vehicles. E-Z kills. Well any map I guess....
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7118|USA

The_Jester wrote:

JohnnySupreme wrote:

The reason is that these are the only 2 crossing points for all the armour.
Not entirely true.
APC's can go in the water and reach the east side of the map from another ramp.
True. But everyone is so busy getting slaughtered at the hotel, you would have to run into a real genius online to think of taking his APC to the back ramp.
=W=GeneralSherman
Banned
+83|7013
^^^ just no one thinks too.....and if u know what ur doing...u can get alot of points....get the MP-5....great gun.....make sure ur playing with someone in a squad whos like to be support or is trying to get theyre vet/exp.,,,,take a car to an enemy base and put an AT under it.....or if ur playing with ppl who steal ur teams vehichles...place one under there,,,,if im engineer with nothing much to do but capture airfeild on wake becaus=e thats the only thing they have left....then i either snipe...or i go behind the hill by jet and place an AT infropnt on jet spawn and helo spawn....couple of jet and helo whores waiting...dozens of kills

Last edited by =W=GeneralSherman (2006-08-17 08:32:30)

ShadowFoX
I Hate Claymores
+109|6987
The way you use engineer and help you win the round for your team and cover the infantry asses from enemy armor is get 2 engineers and a tank and apc. At the beginning of the round let the infantry deal with the infantry and head straight towards the square and cap that. At that point the enemy lonely non energy armor will be showing up procede to blow them up and then go back to support the infantry in hotel and help them cap it. I ussualy then procede to the river where the enemy armor shows up again and take that out and cap the train wreck while most of the infantry is going to be facing infantry in suburbs. If they cant handle it I go back and help them out.

Now I am a tank whore but I do help my team if I have a friend or just some other pubber with brains who's engineer in armor.
znozer
Viking fool - Crazy SWE
+162|7000|Sverige (SWE)
Karkand is a good Engineer map - lot of vehicle happy people......
Jobarra
Member
+0|7137

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

The_Jester wrote:

JohnnySupreme wrote:

The reason is that these are the only 2 crossing points for all the armour.
Not entirely true.
APC's can go in the water and reach the east side of the map from another ramp.
True. But everyone is so busy getting slaughtered at the hotel, you would have to run into a real genius online to think of taking his APC to the back ramp.
Alone as an engineer, you can cover all 4 of the major crossings with a single round of mines.  Start at the guardhouse and continue to the factory.  Actually, there is really only one minor crossing(the slope to the west of the guardhouse), and I think it can be covered by a mine.  The problem is the bridge will only have one mine on it and since they can spot it, they'll probably drive around it easily.  It really only takes 2 engies and possibly 2 other combat classes(with one of the APCs) to hold the back area, and a commander who's not afraid of doing his job and spotting all the enemies whenever possible.  The MEC should win every game if they are doing this consistantly.  But there's the problem, noone wants to sit on 'boring' defense.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|7109

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Also on Daqing, take all flags, sneak into the uncap and mine all of the vehicles. E-Z kills. Well any map I guess....
lol I love placing an AT mine in front of the wheels of a jet. People NEVER notice. and it's even better when you've got entire squads just waiting for the jet to spawn. KABOOM ^^
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Kirokura
Member
+26|6994|Sweden

JohnnySupreme wrote:

...The only downside is that I dont get a huge amount of points for my efforts.
Yes, the sad life of an engineer. Much work, few points. I have roughly the same time as engineer and medic but 15 times as many revive/heal-points than repair-points. Well, at least FF is, mostly, of for mines nowadays so fewer cramped vodniks are driving around looking for an excuse to hit page down.
AH1Z SOCOM GHOST
Member
+32|7099|Minnesota
I like engineer, but HATE the weapons Im given to work with... gimme a fricken RIFLE!!!!
JohnnySupreme
Member
+23|6951

The_Jester wrote:

JohnnySupreme wrote:

The reason is that these are the only 2 crossing points for all the armour.
Not entirely true.
APC's can go in the water and reach the east side of the map from another ramp.
This is true but I rarely see anyone try it.  There are 2 other routes; one down the south facing ramp and the other to the north of the bridge. 

However, I find that even players that have just hit one of my mines will often go back the same route.  I guess they think I only placed one mine and they just cleared it.  I also think that some people take a "I've got an APC, lets find some infantry quick" attitude.  These people are easy pickings because they don't look and think when traveling to the place they want to be.
JohnnySupreme
Member
+23|6951

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Well said. Nothing new but nice post supporting the underpicked and underutilized Engineer class. I just started really fooling with it to get my time up and its alot of fun. Espcially the large Chinese maps; Dragon Valley, Daqing. Just cruise beside your armor convoy in a jeep and voila, repair whore. It really pisses the opponent off.

"3 rockets in him and he lives!!! WTF!!!" I love it.

Also on Daqing, take all flags, sneak into the uncap and mine all of the vehicles. E-Z kills. Well any map I guess....
Yeah, the mini team of 2 engineers, 1 in a tank, the other in an APC works wonders.  Many times a friend and I have done this at a clash point (Dragon Valley 32 is great for this).  We'll just sit there next to each other waiting for the enemy to come along.  It works even better with a supply crate behind us.  You can take hit after hit without being destroyed.  The number of times one or the other of us has been accused of using some kind of invincibility hack is just funny.  Of course on maps with jets this tactic makes us both a great big target for the bombs.
ncc6206
=BIG= BAD AND UGLY
+36|6935

JohnnySupreme wrote:

The_Jester wrote:

JohnnySupreme wrote:

The reason is that these are the only 2 crossing points for all the armour.
Not entirely true.
APC's can go in the water and reach the east side of the map from another ramp.
This is true but I rarely see anyone try it.  There are 2 other routes; one down the south facing ramp and the other to the north of the bridge. 

However, I find that even players that have just hit one of my mines will often go back the same route.  I guess they think I only placed one mine and they just cleared it.  I also think that some people take a "I've got an APC, lets find some infantry quick" attitude.  These people are easy pickings because they don't look and think when traveling to the place they want to be.
Yes!   A rifle will be nice..... Or at least let the wrench whack them over the head.
Darkhelmet
cereal killer
+233|7207|the middle of nowhere

ncc6206 wrote:

let the wrench whack them over the head.
bingo
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|7082|Canada
*standing ovation* i never thought i'd read this if it wasnt my own thread. i do exactly as you do! i got both my basic and veteren with AT mines. i love em. i also use them at the beginning of the round in karkand to keep the tanks/apc from raping the hotel spawn points.
t3hhax
Banned
+4|6924
lol, you on wake at north base when ur coming up that road to airfield theres a few small bushes in the middle of road well some peeps hide them there
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|7005|UK

Most important huh?  Keeping our beloved armour whores going ya?  HIYA (just rhymes so ha), nah most important players are the medics, keeping more people alive make the win more likely, simple as.
JohnnySupreme
Member
+23|6951
Why would an engineer need a rifle?  To be honest I often go through a whole round without actually firing my shotgun or pistol.  If you are doing what an engineer should be doing (IMO) then your gun is a last resort.  You should be using buggys and jeeps to speed around placing mines in tactical places or finding team mates in damaged vehicles to repair them.

This was a major aspect of my original post.  The engineer can be very effective if he stays out of the way of the main battle.  If you go charging into an infantry battle you will lose.  Quite badly too.

Having said all that, the shotgun and granades combo can also be used to great effect.  If I am engaged in a spot of infantry combat what I do depends on the range.  If at short range I'll take them on because after all, I have a large shotgun.  At medium to long range I'll lob a granade at my attacker who normally goes prone immediately and then leg it round a nearby corner.  If the granade doesn't kill them they often start running towards the last place they saw me...  The corner...  This is where they find me with my shotgun aimed at where they will appear.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7118|USA

JohnnySupreme wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Well said. Nothing new but nice post supporting the underpicked and underutilized Engineer class. I just started really fooling with it to get my time up and its alot of fun. Espcially the large Chinese maps; Dragon Valley, Daqing. Just cruise beside your armor convoy in a jeep and voila, repair whore. It really pisses the opponent off.

"3 rockets in him and he lives!!! WTF!!!" I love it.

Also on Daqing, take all flags, sneak into the uncap and mine all of the vehicles. E-Z kills. Well any map I guess....
Yeah, the mini team of 2 engineers, 1 in a tank, the other in an APC works wonders.  Many times a friend and I have done this at a clash point (Dragon Valley 32 is great for this).  We'll just sit there next to each other waiting for the enemy to come along.  It works even better with a supply crate behind us.  You can take hit after hit without being destroyed.  The number of times one or the other of us has been accused of using some kind of invincibility hack is just funny.  Of course on maps with jets this tactic makes us both a great big target for the bombs.
Yeah. Arty Magnet too.
JohnnySupreme
Member
+23|6951

Bell wrote:

Most important huh?  Keeping our beloved armour whores going ya?  HIYA (just rhymes so ha), nah most important players are the medics, keeping more people alive make the win more likely, simple as.
Medics do play a useful role but players like destruktion_6143 and I keep the armour away which helps you medics do your bit.  After all, what can a medic do when a tanks 120mm barrel is pointing at them?
Seaneroo
Member
+12|7114

JohnnySupreme wrote:

You might even be lucky and get an APC with a full squad in it!
This is how I got the basic explosives badge.  I mined the river just before the ramp leading to the MEC base, ran off and was fighting elsewhere when I got the message I had earned the badge. I was totally confused for a second, then I realized I must have taken out a fully loaded APC.  One mine, 5 kills. No suicidal lunges at tanks for me, no siree. This is still one of my favorite BF2 moments.
Rick_O_Shea678
Angry Engy
+95|7209
Good topic.  Lots of truth here.
I enjoy a win more than points, and I love the teamwork aspect of BF2.  Engineer is my kit of choice too, but you are right about lagging in points.  My SPM trails my buddies, and people with similar hours played, but that's because engineer is defensive, and wrenching is time-consuming.

As for the shotgun, you know it's deadly in close quarters.  But usually we try to avoid close quarters, right?  I've learned to use the pistol if across/down the street.  I've also memorized where the TOW & MountedMG are at Kark.

Tip for helping defend Gatehouse as MEC in 32 man: get a SpecOps partner to blow the bridge up.  Enemy sees our mines on bridge (unless planted on downslope of Train Accident hump, good tip JohnnySupreme), so I rarely kill them that way.  They go around, or stop, or blow them up, etc.  So I just get a friend to blow the bridge.  If enemy armor is manned by engy and he repairs bridge, get on the TOW by SAT.

"After all, what can a medic do when a tanks 120mm barrel is pointing at them?"
They pull out their paddles, bring the guy back, and give the enemy tank TWO kills instead of one.  Then they respawn, run around and do it a couple more times before dying.  Respawn, do it a couple more times before dying.  Then rounds ends with them getting a Gold, despite being fairly inconsequential to the outcome of the match, while we engy finish in about seventh.
the.reduxx
Member
+0|6920
A decent engineer can keep a tank up for a long period of time especially on Karkand. A smart engineer also knows how to lay land mines correctly. Alot of players lay them in a line across a road, I however lay them in specific patterns so that if one is struck they all wont blow up, I can get kills on multiple vehicles this way. In my opinion the USMC shotgun the M11 is probably one of these most effective guns in Bf2, especially in the close quarters of Karkand. The only better gun for close range combat is the AK-101. I would say the F2000 and G3 but there rate of fire is to slow.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7118|USA

the.reduxx wrote:

A decent engineer can keep a tank up for a long period of time especially on Karkand. A smart engineer also knows how to lay land mines correctly. Alot of players lay them in a line across a road, I however lay them in specific patterns so that if one is struck they all wont blow up, I can get kills on multiple vehicles this way. In my opinion the USMC shotgun the M11 is probably one of these most effective guns in Bf2, especially in the close quarters of Karkand. The only better gun for close range combat is the AK-101. I would say the F2000 and G3 but there rate of fire is to slow.
So true....space them out over an area. 5 mines for 1 kill is not worth it when you can be so much more effective by walking a few feet between mines.

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