BF2S Forums Arabs hate Fox News too - Kidnapping

jonsimon wrote:

Pug wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Arrest, trial, sentence. Just like it always has been. Why should this incident be any different?

I agree with that...but wait...aren't they asking for the release of all US Arab prisoners?

If the group is doing the kidnapping to release all US Arab prisoners...won't there be a future reason for more killings?

Do you see the flaw?

I'm not going to analyze the antagonists' motives because I do not know them. But treating the situation in anything but a fair and orderly manner according to protocol is going to exacerbate the problem.

If their motive is simply to release islamic prisoners, than they are being unreasonable and the problem cannot be alleviated, only tolerated.

If their motive is something more complex and rational, such as to release all innocent islamic prisoners or all islamic prisoners held without trial, then the solution is obviously to try all the prisoners in a fair and orderly manner.

The compromise depends on their true motive.

Dersmikner wrote:

Brutal?

Sure, but you ass-rape some extremist's 13 year old daughter, choke her to death with a pork tenderloin, then leave her corpse in the road for a few days and I guaran-goddamned-tee you you'll have a hell of a lot fewer hostages taken. Hell, if you really want, just go ahead and murder every member of the guy's family and pile their bodies up, naked, where dogs can desecrate the corpses.

Pug wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Pug wrote:

I agree with that...but wait...aren't they asking for the release of all US Arab prisoners?

If the group is doing the kidnapping to release all US Arab prisoners...won't there be a future reason for more killings?

Do you see the flaw?

I'm not going to analyze the antagonists' motives because I do not know them. But treating the situation in anything but a fair and orderly manner according to protocol is going to exacerbate the problem.

If their motive is simply to release islamic prisoners, than they are being unreasonable and the problem cannot be alleviated, only tolerated.

If their motive is something more complex and rational, such as to release all innocent islamic prisoners or all islamic prisoners held without trial, then the solution is obviously to try all the prisoners in a fair and orderly manner.

The compromise depends on their true motive.

Almost there...

It's chicken and egg scenario in many ways.  Two logic paths here:

US Capitulates
1) US releases all innocent parties.
2) Assume that they are satisfied.  The extremists do not attempt to extend the definition of "innocent" to include what they believe to be "mysterious" circumstances...or they don't attempt to extend the definition to those who have followed "Allah's Call" - a just cause which doesn't break any law.  But let's assume they are appeased.
3) Since they are appeased, they release the hostages.

Results (choose the more likely scenario):
1) They are happy and go back to a normal, non-violent lifestyle
2) They find another hostage...just like the countless other groups that see the demands are met.

No Negotiations
1) The extremists kill the journalists.

Results (choose as many as you wish):
1) No new groups spring up because no one has been martyred and no demands were met.
2) They are happy and go back to a normal, non-violent lifestyle, because they know they will not get anything from hostage negotiation.
3) They kidnap again.
4) They are killed, thereby creating more matyrs for the cause.
5) They are imprisoned, thereby creating another solidier of Allah wrongly imprisoned.

It's a win-win for the extremists.  It's a lose-lose for anyone else, including the populance around these individuals.

You are being idealistic.  It doesn't work the way you purport.  There is no way to win.

Dersmikner wrote:

Ikarti, Id also be for coupling that plan with a U.S. pullout form any country whose duly elected government didn't invite us, and for forcing Israel to allow the establishment of a Palestinian state.

I think it's incumbent upon us to play fair, and that means giving the "Palestinians" a sovereign homeland and telling Israel we'll cut it off and let it shrivel up and die of they don't do it.

I'd like to see us completely back off the Arabs. But, in that same breath I'll tell you that if they want to try to force their shit on us and turn everywhere into Allahville, I'm just as happy to remove them from the planet entirely. I'd like to see them contain that shit to their part of the world too...

We really need to just plain quit fucking around with this group of people and end this conflict one way or the other.

CameronPoe wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

Agreed, name one news source that isn't biased.

Poe, Al-Jazeera doesn't count.

I rarely if ever quote Al-Jazeera. Their editorials are every bit as bad as those of FOX.

TeamZephyr wrote:

It makes me laugh to see your Americans whinge about your "liberal media".

Last edited by Kmarion (2006-08-25 02:20:57)

CameronPoe wrote:

'a tad right': hilarious!!!!

CNN International is different from CNN US so I can't really comment on them. I saw some CNN US last time I was in Chicago and I have to say it was pretty petty and biased, but no more or less biased than FOX News. Bill O'Reilly rules primetime because all the libs watch it as well as the neo-cons - to see what ridiculous hatemongering drivel he will spew out next. I watch BOR for comedy value more than anything else.

Last edited by Colfax (2006-08-25 06:49:38)

Pug wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

I'm not even going to begin to address an uniformed entirely theoretical set of scenarios.

In theory evey theory works in practice.

Interesting...so you can't support your opinion that they should be imprisoned.

Did I not cover all possible angles?

Because you are unable to answer my question it leads me to believe you haven't thought this all the way through.  You are arguing with your heart instead of your mind.

Dersmikner wrote:

My answer would be simple:

Find out who the guys in charge of that operation are, and hunt down and capture their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children, and grandparents.

Feed them only pork and water. If they don't eat the pork, let them starve. Then send a demand letter to the Arab hostage takers, demanding the return of the two Fox hostages, and for every day that they aren't returned, brutally murder one of your hostages. Not only that, leave the bodies in the sun for 4 days after killing them. Make sure that part's known. It's a Muslim "getting into heaven" thing. All full of pork and not buried...

Kill every single one of them if you have to.

Brutal?

Sure, but you ass-rape some extremist's 13 year old daughter, choke her to death with a pork tenderloin, then leave her corpse in the road for a few days and I guaran-goddamned-tee you you'll have a hell of a lot fewer hostages taken. Hell, if you really want, just go ahead and murder every member of the guy's family and pile their bodies up, naked, where dogs can desecrate the corpses.

It's terrible to have to do something like that to any person, much less a 13 year old girl, but in the long run you'll save more lives, ours and theirs. If you talk about "getting along" and "tolerating" and give them Israel and then give them Spain (they're still pissed about losing it in 1425), and keep appeasing them when they fly Hezbollah and Hamas flags in Dearborn Michigan sooner or later you're going to end up with Planet Muslim.

I say reverse the terror 100 times worse and we'll see how many 18 to 45 year old Muslim men will be all fired up about blowing themselves up if they know that their mother is going to get gang-raped and killed by sex-starved life-sentence prisoners in Riker's. Go enjoy being with Allah pal, your Mom is about to take three dicks at once until she dies.

Fuck his neighbors over too, so they'll learn to start policing their own. Simple bullets will suffice for them. No rape necessary.

Call me a pig all you want, but my way ends all this bullshit in no time flat. Show them that it's over and you aren't taking any more shit, and they'll quit giving it. Keep pussing out the way we have been and we'll keep getting used.

Take just one of those guys' wife and cheese-grate her skin off and roll her in comet and tell the other ones that if the hostages aren't let go immediately the same will happen to their wives, and pretty soon the hostages will be free.

Take a gun to a knife fight.