Who are the real Rinos these days, though. Establishment Republicans, or Republicans who refuse to toe the line for its own sake.
https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/stat … 3639623680
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/us/c … k-4ca11188
it's really too incredible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/us/c … k-4ca11188
it's really too incredible.
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-18 14:56:14)
I still predict a secret service guy is going to off him in exasperation.
Fuck Israel
an obese 80 year old on heart medication taking strong anti-malarial medication for no reason. sounds like a good idea.
the white house dr is either an idiot or in on the plot.
the white house dr is either an idiot or in on the plot.
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 01:25:54)
Is his re-election still possible at all at this point?
Its perfectly possible, if anything probable.
Fuck Israel
what thing that is perfectly possible, and is indeed happening, as i have written elsewhere (much to your contention), is that this stuff is rocket-fuel for chinese morale and support back home. the liberal cause and cause for democratization has never been at such a low ebb there. they are watching the world's best democracy flail around, fail utterly, and a leader who is increasingly bizarre.
meanwhile in response to a series of new clusters in jilin province, 100 million people are back under full lockdown and quarantine. measures that work.
the entire world would snigger if it was kim of north korea saying the things trump says. everyone would take it as a symptom of their bizarro political reality -- and a fault of their system that such a buffoon was given an ultimately dangerous platform. well, obviously the same thing is happening with the rest of the world and trump. china's state media are loving this whole show. it's the best possible gift for them at this time, when they should be answering some very difficult questions.
instead they get to post headlines like this:
"President Trump is leading the US's struggle against pandemic with witchcraft, and as a result, more than 90,000 people have died. If it were in China, the White House would have been burned down by angry people. pic.twitter.com/QMs75Ix4DQ"
meanwhile in response to a series of new clusters in jilin province, 100 million people are back under full lockdown and quarantine. measures that work.
the entire world would snigger if it was kim of north korea saying the things trump says. everyone would take it as a symptom of their bizarro political reality -- and a fault of their system that such a buffoon was given an ultimately dangerous platform. well, obviously the same thing is happening with the rest of the world and trump. china's state media are loving this whole show. it's the best possible gift for them at this time, when they should be answering some very difficult questions.
instead they get to post headlines like this:
"President Trump is leading the US's struggle against pandemic with witchcraft, and as a result, more than 90,000 people have died. If it were in China, the White House would have been burned down by angry people. pic.twitter.com/QMs75Ix4DQ"
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 02:00:39)
the democrats, in their infinite wisdom, have put forward a demented old man to counter the republican's delusional old man.Larssen wrote:
Is his re-election still possible at all at this point?
it's politics-as-pokémon. who will win out of the bigot-type and idiot-type?
If we consider that Trump was indeed elected once why would his re-election be in any way improbable? Now he has a lot of momentum behind him.
He has achieved some amazing things though, the entire US media now marginalised, discredited and disbelieved.
Amazing also that the two most powerful democratic organisations in the world have no-one better to put up than demented and corrupt gropers.
Maybe the Chinese way is better.
He has achieved some amazing things though, the entire US media now marginalised, discredited and disbelieved.
Amazing also that the two most powerful democratic organisations in the world have no-one better to put up than demented and corrupt gropers.
Maybe the Chinese way is better.
Fuck Israel
It's a little more nuanced. I don't think the Chinese themselves believe or trust their government very much. This is why the 'confidence' stat may be misleading - they sure do think their leadership is competent, but it's a different story to say they're all jubilent about its governance. There have been too many incidents in the past of the government fudging death and injury numbers in accidents or disasters, people 'disappearing' & too much misleading info for them to accept the propaganda stories or covid 19 statistics at face value. Pretty much everyone there uses VPNs and there's plenty viral anti-government internet activity. I was also mostly in contention against the blanket statement/insinuation that people in China love their government...uziq wrote:
what thing that is perfectly possible, and is indeed happening, as i have written elsewhere (much to your contention), is that this stuff is rocket-fuel for chinese morale and support back home. the liberal cause and cause for democratization has never been at such a low ebb there. they are watching the world's best democracy flail around, fail utterly, and a leader who is increasingly bizarre.
meanwhile in response to a series of new clusters in jilin province, 100 million people are back under full lockdown and quarantine. measures that work.
the entire world would snigger if it was kim of north korea saying the things trump says. everyone would take it as a symptom of their bizarro political reality -- and a fault of their system that such a buffoon was given an ultimately dangerous platform. well, obviously the same thing is happening with the rest of the world and trump. china's state media are loving this whole show. it's the best possible gift for them at this time, when they should be answering some very difficult questions.
instead they get to post headlines like this:
"President Trump is leading the US's struggle against pandemic with witchcraft, and as a result, more than 90,000 people have died. If it were in China, the White House would have been burned down by angry people. pic.twitter.com/QMs75Ix4DQ"
Nonetheless yes it's true that Trump is a posterboy for everything that's wrong with western governance, though I don't hope anyone seriously considers that country world's 'best democracy'. Honestly it's one of the worst. Moreover I believe the past few decades have been an indictment of the anglosaxon 2 party democracy system - it is terrible. Everywhere else in Europe, in often older and more developed democracies, governments are doing a much better job.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-05-19 04:16:49)
the vast majority of chinese use VPNs to access instagram and whatsapp, post pictures of themselves in designer clothes and at fancy restaurants, and to google things, not to engage in seditious anti-government activity. are you mad?
it was actually a rarity until very recently to see widespread critical sentiment about the government. covid was an especially interesting flashpoint. it was very taboo to express any sort of anti-government opinion on wechat or whatever prior to this. maybe that signals a huge change, maybe not. complaining about things on the internet hasn't exactly done much for radical politics in the west. in fact, twitter is an algae-ridden fishtank full of the stuff. marx had a few things to say about tolerable 'escape valves' for pressure within any oppressive system ... you can include street protests in this sort of 'performative' politics, too, which leads nowhere.
as for the line of thinking that 'exposure to outside world' and other cultures will lead to an inevitable collapse of the style of government there ... very fanciful, i think. the CCP is harnessing the most advanced technology in the world to guide and predict its citizens' every action. it's going to take more than exposure to instagram influencers' feeds to 'wake up' the 'brainwashed' chinese people.
i have never made out the chinese are overjoyed with their government. i am sure there are multiplicand complaints and miseries in their life. it is an oppressive system. the poll i linked, however, asked them about 'confidence they are going in the right direction', as well as faith in their leadership. and they overwhelmingly are sure that china's history of recent, rapid development, and its future as a world superpower, are all but ensured by the CCP (and under xi, furthermore). in this sense, the chinese overwhelmingly approve of the government they have. and they do not like being told by westerners about its flaws, nor are they won around to the western idea of things.
like in russia, but to a greater and much more successful degree, the chinese people do not see greater development as being incompatible also with 'more CCP'. the entire idea that liberal democracy and capitalism go hand in hand, and that opening a country to the market's 'liberalizing forces' will end up in a happy little democracy, is a hugely flawed western assumption. capitalism seems to be a ready helpmeet to authoritarian rule, as well.
it was actually a rarity until very recently to see widespread critical sentiment about the government. covid was an especially interesting flashpoint. it was very taboo to express any sort of anti-government opinion on wechat or whatever prior to this. maybe that signals a huge change, maybe not. complaining about things on the internet hasn't exactly done much for radical politics in the west. in fact, twitter is an algae-ridden fishtank full of the stuff. marx had a few things to say about tolerable 'escape valves' for pressure within any oppressive system ... you can include street protests in this sort of 'performative' politics, too, which leads nowhere.
as for the line of thinking that 'exposure to outside world' and other cultures will lead to an inevitable collapse of the style of government there ... very fanciful, i think. the CCP is harnessing the most advanced technology in the world to guide and predict its citizens' every action. it's going to take more than exposure to instagram influencers' feeds to 'wake up' the 'brainwashed' chinese people.
i have never made out the chinese are overjoyed with their government. i am sure there are multiplicand complaints and miseries in their life. it is an oppressive system. the poll i linked, however, asked them about 'confidence they are going in the right direction', as well as faith in their leadership. and they overwhelmingly are sure that china's history of recent, rapid development, and its future as a world superpower, are all but ensured by the CCP (and under xi, furthermore). in this sense, the chinese overwhelmingly approve of the government they have. and they do not like being told by westerners about its flaws, nor are they won around to the western idea of things.
like in russia, but to a greater and much more successful degree, the chinese people do not see greater development as being incompatible also with 'more CCP'. the entire idea that liberal democracy and capitalism go hand in hand, and that opening a country to the market's 'liberalizing forces' will end up in a happy little democracy, is a hugely flawed western assumption. capitalism seems to be a ready helpmeet to authoritarian rule, as well.
older democracies? the UK has the oldest living democracy in the west. or do you mean ancient greece? the greeks, notable friends of europe.Everywhere else in Europe, in often older and more developed democracies
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 04:38:51)
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n10 … pt-bargain
‘democracy? no thanks’.
very good long read on the electoral college by eric foner.
‘democracy? no thanks’.
very good long read on the electoral college by eric foner.
Yes the UK claims that title but how well does it hold up to scrutiny? I believe the power of the monarchy and aristocracy was centralised, institutionalised & preserved to far greater degrees in the british empire/UK than most anywhere else in Europe especially beyond the napoleonic revolutions. I'd be willing to argue that proto-democratic institutionalisation has a very long history in Germany, Denmark & the Netherlands as well, all the way back to medieval times - not in the sense of a people's power to vote but in the need for politics of compromise and democratic decision making among the thousands of dukedoms, bishopdoms, little kingdoms etc. that constituted the greater wholes at the time. Not to mention France post 1789.
Also guess I should read Marx again because I agree wholeheartedly and have expressed that belief myself, I've either forgotten or never read his statements on the escape valves of society/government.
As for the Chinese - I mean from Tiananmen to the sichuan earthquake & tianjin explosions... there's been plenty moments where the average Chinese has been outraged with its government. Never much in the open but there's certainly a level of mistrust and fear for their leaders that goes beyond what we have in the west.
I'm sure they have confidence in their leadership, except of course if they're uighurs, tibetans, people from inner mongolia, hongkongers or really anyone at the fringes whose provinces are vital to the Chinese economic leap yet whose people suffer miserable oppression.
Also guess I should read Marx again because I agree wholeheartedly and have expressed that belief myself, I've either forgotten or never read his statements on the escape valves of society/government.
As for the Chinese - I mean from Tiananmen to the sichuan earthquake & tianjin explosions... there's been plenty moments where the average Chinese has been outraged with its government. Never much in the open but there's certainly a level of mistrust and fear for their leaders that goes beyond what we have in the west.
I'm sure they have confidence in their leadership, except of course if they're uighurs, tibetans, people from inner mongolia, hongkongers or really anyone at the fringes whose provinces are vital to the Chinese economic leap yet whose people suffer miserable oppression.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-05-19 06:42:52)
there is no simple answer to 'which is the world's oldest democracy?' it sounds like a question set on an undergraduate history paper. nevertheless, claiming that 'older and more developed' democracies in europe are antecedent in any way to the united kingdom is historically illiterate nonsense.
the magna carta in the UK, negotiating between the absolute monarch of the king and his feudal nobility/barons, and in the process forming a charter guaranteeing individual rights to citizens, is dated to 1215. please show me 'proto-democratic' decision making, to say nothing of official charters and legislation, prior to this. this question is worth 20 marks. do not spend more than 45 minutes.
it's like you've been institutionalized by the EU or something. hello? knock knock? you emphasize the hong kong protests, which i tell you again, are trivial matters to mainland chinese, who widely side with their government on all matters regarding HK/macau/taiwan/etc. but then ignore the fact that arguably the joint-biggest power in the EU just left the organization because of widespread popular revolt against it. people in the UK precisely mistrusted bureaucrats in europe; what is brexit but the opposite of entrusting someone with power?
why are you so affronted about hong kong but then smooth over calls for regional independence in europe? can't you see that most chinese people agree with their politicians when they see regionalism/factionalism as the route to a disastrous break-up? the chinese people see HK in the same way you see catalonia, i'm afraid, and about as credible -- in fact, worse, considering it was appropriated by foreign devils and represented a huge national humiliation. why aren't the independence referenda and regional movements in the west/EU negative portents? but the chinese examples are? i am confused by your thinking.
it seems underneath everything you say is a lack of that 'epistemic relativism' you have espoused elsewhere before. there is a gap between your thinking and the chinese. you seem to think that protests in an authoritarian regime must be signs of cracks in the edifice, that democracy is coming, but it isn't so. everything that happens in china you take to be a symptom of a serious malady, a fundamental rot in the structure; but then you're chipper and plucky about the same thing in europe, who for some reason will only be 'strengthened' in your own little 'crisis theory'.
and yes, you should read more marx, because he is one of the most important political philosophers of the modern age, and dialectical materialism is useful for much more than you impute to it. your characterisations of marxists as professors lost in endless postmodern discourse and deconstruction is, frankly, bizarre, and reads like a boilerplate insult acquired on breitbart or somewhere else complaining about 'postmodern neo-marxist cultural relativism'.
the magna carta in the UK, negotiating between the absolute monarch of the king and his feudal nobility/barons, and in the process forming a charter guaranteeing individual rights to citizens, is dated to 1215. please show me 'proto-democratic' decision making, to say nothing of official charters and legislation, prior to this. this question is worth 20 marks. do not spend more than 45 minutes.
fear, maybe, for obvious reasons. but do you really think the chinese mistrust politicians more than people in the west? have you just been sleeping for the last 10 years of recent western history, or what? why are we electing populists from 'alternative' media landscapes? why are we voting for 'anti-candidates'? who really has looked at a president or a politician in the west since nixon's time without a reflexive thought that they're all corrupt crooks? the president of the united states was elected on the slogan 'drain the swamp' by 50% of americans, precisely living in mistrust of the government.Never much in the open but there's certainly a level of mistrust and fear for their leaders that goes beyond what we have in the west.
it's like you've been institutionalized by the EU or something. hello? knock knock? you emphasize the hong kong protests, which i tell you again, are trivial matters to mainland chinese, who widely side with their government on all matters regarding HK/macau/taiwan/etc. but then ignore the fact that arguably the joint-biggest power in the EU just left the organization because of widespread popular revolt against it. people in the UK precisely mistrusted bureaucrats in europe; what is brexit but the opposite of entrusting someone with power?
why are you so affronted about hong kong but then smooth over calls for regional independence in europe? can't you see that most chinese people agree with their politicians when they see regionalism/factionalism as the route to a disastrous break-up? the chinese people see HK in the same way you see catalonia, i'm afraid, and about as credible -- in fact, worse, considering it was appropriated by foreign devils and represented a huge national humiliation. why aren't the independence referenda and regional movements in the west/EU negative portents? but the chinese examples are? i am confused by your thinking.
it seems underneath everything you say is a lack of that 'epistemic relativism' you have espoused elsewhere before. there is a gap between your thinking and the chinese. you seem to think that protests in an authoritarian regime must be signs of cracks in the edifice, that democracy is coming, but it isn't so. everything that happens in china you take to be a symptom of a serious malady, a fundamental rot in the structure; but then you're chipper and plucky about the same thing in europe, who for some reason will only be 'strengthened' in your own little 'crisis theory'.
uighurs, tibetans, people from inner mongolia, hongkongers ... whose provinces are vital to the Chinese economic leap
and yes, you should read more marx, because he is one of the most important political philosophers of the modern age, and dialectical materialism is useful for much more than you impute to it. your characterisations of marxists as professors lost in endless postmodern discourse and deconstruction is, frankly, bizarre, and reads like a boilerplate insult acquired on breitbart or somewhere else complaining about 'postmodern neo-marxist cultural relativism'.
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 07:33:15)
Sometimes it is really as though you are roasting yourself uzi. First you state the UK is the oldest living democracy to then disparage the question of 'world's oldest democracy' as some travesty only seen in undergraduate history papers. Have some mercy on yourself, man.
Let's trace back to my statement on 'anglosaxon democratic model' and European democracies often being older and more well developed. While yes the UK has the magna carta, there's more to the anglosaxon sphere than just the UK and we started out writing about Trump. As for the rest of Europe - there's the imperial electoral & decisionmaking bodies in the HRE, the dutch were a republic from its earliest history, the danes in a politically complicated scandinavian union nevermind how law and order came about during viking times.... I'm not gonna write a term paper sorry.
Don't attack me on Marx here. All I told you was that the identity obsessionism was in my view part of 'left' leaning politics as its progenitors were originally marxist and its results deemed post-marxian.... but hey you take issue with it so I guess only classical left is really to be deemed the left. That's fine, I'll accomodate your views.
I don't know what's so strange about my statement on the people on the fringes in Chinese society. Where do you think all those minerals come from that fuel the Chinese world production machine? They're certainly not dug out of the ground in the coastal areas where the factories are. As for comparisons between the CCP and EU, tell me you're joking. I think the UK leaving is a stupid decision but I'm not about to argue the EU should invade Kent by land so that we can depose your idiot Boris and plant EU flags on nr.10.
Let's trace back to my statement on 'anglosaxon democratic model' and European democracies often being older and more well developed. While yes the UK has the magna carta, there's more to the anglosaxon sphere than just the UK and we started out writing about Trump. As for the rest of Europe - there's the imperial electoral & decisionmaking bodies in the HRE, the dutch were a republic from its earliest history, the danes in a politically complicated scandinavian union nevermind how law and order came about during viking times.... I'm not gonna write a term paper sorry.
Don't attack me on Marx here. All I told you was that the identity obsessionism was in my view part of 'left' leaning politics as its progenitors were originally marxist and its results deemed post-marxian.... but hey you take issue with it so I guess only classical left is really to be deemed the left. That's fine, I'll accomodate your views.
I don't know what's so strange about my statement on the people on the fringes in Chinese society. Where do you think all those minerals come from that fuel the Chinese world production machine? They're certainly not dug out of the ground in the coastal areas where the factories are. As for comparisons between the CCP and EU, tell me you're joking. I think the UK leaving is a stupid decision but I'm not about to argue the EU should invade Kent by land so that we can depose your idiot Boris and plant EU flags on nr.10.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-05-19 07:53:22)
i contested your suave european assertion that you had 'older, more developed' democracies on the continent. it is a nonsense. you opted to invoke agreements between fucking bishoprics in medieval europe as some 'precedent'. i merely pointed out that tracing democracy back that far is contentious stuff; and, in any case, we had a great charter in 1215 and a representative parliament by 1265. please show me the 'older and more developed' big brother democracies that the snivelling children of the UK/US should look to. i don't think you can. small beer.
i am not comparing the EU and CCP as organizations. but why does it matter? people living under one system complain; people living under the other complain. people see wars and invasions as justified for x reason in the west, y reason in the east. you catastrophize about one and say things like 'the levels of mistrust are far higher', but are equable about the same rumblings in europe. you can't seem to understand that chinese people have very different values, traditions, and views of what a rightful government should be to our own. and yet you keep wielding that 'episteme' keyword from graduate-level epistemology studies as if you understand what it even means. all i see here in your list of complaints about illiberality in china is liberal universalism, a real disease of thinking, make no mistakes about it.
i am not comparing the EU and CCP as organizations. but why does it matter? people living under one system complain; people living under the other complain. people see wars and invasions as justified for x reason in the west, y reason in the east. you catastrophize about one and say things like 'the levels of mistrust are far higher', but are equable about the same rumblings in europe. you can't seem to understand that chinese people have very different values, traditions, and views of what a rightful government should be to our own. and yet you keep wielding that 'episteme' keyword from graduate-level epistemology studies as if you understand what it even means. all i see here in your list of complaints about illiberality in china is liberal universalism, a real disease of thinking, make no mistakes about it.
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 07:56:40)
The last time I used the word episteme was to explain to KJ why I'm not fond of making direct historical comparisons over time. That's a factually correct use of the term, maybe you forgot that foucault started using it because of his, you know, historical analysis? Go read a book. If you want to speak about the differently lived reality of the Chinese versus our own the more correct term would be 'paradigm'. And as you well know I've referenced rorty's edifying conversation plenty of times which means I'm well aware and would not shy from a clarifying meeting-of-minds with an actually chinese person on this matter.
It matters because the CCP's subjugation of HK and the UK's peaceful vote to leave the EU are evidence of diametrically opposed views on governance by both organisations. Nevermind the fact that the EU can in no way be compared to that system because it's totally different to begin with. It's not some centralised government lording it over its citizens, which is what you're implying here.
It matters because the CCP's subjugation of HK and the UK's peaceful vote to leave the EU are evidence of diametrically opposed views on governance by both organisations. Nevermind the fact that the EU can in no way be compared to that system because it's totally different to begin with. It's not some centralised government lording it over its citizens, which is what you're implying here.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-05-19 08:08:32)
an episteme literally means a structure of thought, a framework for knowledge, it doesn't have to have an historical dimension at all. foucault was studying the formation of the social sciences in europe over time, so yes, he contrasted epistemes across a span of time to show the gradual development of european rationality. it's perfectly valid to discuss coeval epistemes synchronously across regions. besides, episteme doesn't come from foucault. it's ancient greek, like the language probably suggests. heidegger, for instance, contrasted epistemes across cultures. maybe you should read a book? why do you even read foucault in IR anyway? isn't it a bit over your head? dangerous stuff equipping IR students with fancy terms like 'episteme' when they've never heard of plato or aristotle.
it sounds like the word you need to explain basic historiography to KJ is 'anachronism', not 'episteme'. would you like a further reading list?
it sounds like the word you need to explain basic historiography to KJ is 'anachronism', not 'episteme'. would you like a further reading list?
and i am not implying that at all. i am saying the opposite. the chinese system of governance is completely different, yes, and they approve of it. you continually reading into these flashpoints which excite the western imagination so much as 'signs of fear and mistrust' unlike anything seen in the west are fanciful. that's because you're reading the situation as if a western-style freedom movement is on the cusp of breaking out, or some mass revolt to democracy. it isn't. you are being badly universalist.Nevermind the fact that the EU can in no way be compared to that system because it's totally different to begin with. It's not some centralised government lording it over its citizens, which is what you're implying here.
i thought speaking to chinese people to help inform your understanding was a bad thing? i'll have to call back my fake chinese ex and ask for her to take me back!I'm well aware and would not shy from a clarifying meeting-of-minds with an actually chinese person on this matter.
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 08:22:26)
And again in that statement you willfully ignore that large parts of China are populated by people who are not at all happy to be living under CCP governance, who do not even identify as Chinese. So who is they? Only really the han chinese and groups in their good graces, as I've stated before, which seems to provoke some irrational ire on your end which makes you fly off on a tangent about my westernised views on Chinese governance. But on that point, with every politically critical person going missing, being jailed indefinitely or sent off the work camps yes I would say the air of fear is much more present in Chinese every day life than it is here. You won't see a single soul openly protesting lockdowns or anything there because there's living generations who have experienced what happens if they do.
In a historiographical sense we prefer to use epistemes mostly to describe historical lived realities. I'll be honest and say both terms (episteme and paradigm) are very much alike and have been used by academia interchangeably wherever. So: fine.
I'm a little surprised though that you keep berating things as 'undergraduate' or 'high school level' , aren't you about 30 by now? You should've passed that anxiety-laden university focused mindset ages ago. How about just disagreeing instead of applying such pitiful epithets.
In a historiographical sense we prefer to use epistemes mostly to describe historical lived realities. I'll be honest and say both terms (episteme and paradigm) are very much alike and have been used by academia interchangeably wherever. So: fine.
I'm a little surprised though that you keep berating things as 'undergraduate' or 'high school level' , aren't you about 30 by now? You should've passed that anxiety-laden university focused mindset ages ago. How about just disagreeing instead of applying such pitiful epithets.
the han chinese are 93% of the population. you keep talking about tibet and inner mongolia, the most sparsely populated region in the planet, as if it's 'most people in china are unhappy'. what the fuck are you on about?Larssen wrote:
And again in that statement you willfully ignore that large parts of China are populated by people who are not at all happy to be living under CCP governance, who do not even identify as Chinese. So who is they? Only really the han chinese and groups in their good graces
considering you just pitifully tried to lecture me on grad school terms, i'm only happy to oblige. you are seemingly not familiar with the origins of the concept of 'episteme' and 'paradigm' (hint: they're not foucault). it's very cute that you're telling me which words to use, though, when your idea of episteme is exclusively formed by 4 photocopied pages of Les mots et les choses that you got handed in some dumbshit seminar some time.I'm a little surprised though that you keep berating things as 'undergraduate' or 'high school level' , aren't you about 30 by now? You should've passed that anxiety-laden university focused mindset ages ago. How about just disagreeing instead of applying such pitiful epithets.
no, it doesn't mean that. it means a framework for looking at the world and organizing knowledge. 'lived' reality would be techne. and a large part of said lived reality is actually formed of doxas, unquestioned social beliefs and even superstitions, which are explicitly distinguished from 'episteme' by fucking plato.In a historiographical sense we prefer to use epistemes mostly to describe historical lived realities.
read a book.
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 08:28:34)
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +644|3988
I feel like you may misunderstand a little about how China perceives itself. While the overwhelming majority of the population is Han Chinese, the state still recognizes smaller ethnic groups as equal to Han in law. Those smaller groups are still "Chinese'' in the sense that they are connected to the land, culture, and history of China. The state isn't trying to kill off all of the smaller identity groups.And again in that statement you willfully ignore that large parts of China are populated by people who are not at all happy to be living under CCP governance, who do not even identify as Chinese. So who is they? Only really the han chinese and groups in their good graces, as I've stated before,
Actually I had to read most of that book in some dumbshit seminar sometime. Very useful. Indeed it was my first contact with the concept of epistemes and I do believe that if you were to ever google anything related to it in the context of 'lived realities' Foucault is sure to be the first 999/1000 hits. I'd be very surprised if he did not coin that term in that sense as it's pretty much universally ascribed to him. Paradigm is Kuhn, I'm aware, thx. Another dumbshit seminar in which I read that book. I didn't even bring it up - it was you who started to rail against the fact that I used that term in the past, correctly may I add. To your dismay I imagine.
I don't give a toss how much percentage of the population the Han Chinese are. I believe the statement you make is superficial and has to be nuanced. Furthermore it's a bit strange to gauge the happiness of a people under a government that barely gives a fuck about their happiness, no? A statistic actually only really valued in democracy...
Anyway I have work to do, go foam at the mouth some more I'll get back to this later.
I don't give a toss how much percentage of the population the Han Chinese are. I believe the statement you make is superficial and has to be nuanced. Furthermore it's a bit strange to gauge the happiness of a people under a government that barely gives a fuck about their happiness, no? A statistic actually only really valued in democracy...
Anyway I have work to do, go foam at the mouth some more I'll get back to this later.
I know, but that is not practice.Macbeth wrote:
the state still recognizes smaller ethnic groups as equal to Han in law.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-05-19 08:34:13)
episteme is not universally ascribed to foucault. heidegger used the concepts of episteme/techne very widely in his own work, and he is a far more important philosopher. nobody with even a salutary grasp of the subject would claim foucault 'owns' episteme. i have never ever read the term 'episteme' used to mean 'lived reality', not in foucault or anywhere else. that's because it doesn't mean that; your usage is idiosyncratic, at best. even in his own text he was discussing how people mentally conceived of their world or cosmos, and the concepts and categories they used to structure that knowledge. not their 'lived reality', which is something else entirely and hardly concerns epistemology.
please just stop. i cannot be bothered to give you a crash course on modern thinking.
kuhn reintroduced the term 'paradigm' to discuss (changing) scientific methods, and 'paradigm shift' has been misused ever since. again, it's from plato (the timaeus). i could probably cite it in detail for you if you want. that's because i've read it, several times. it means something more like a model to be repeated, which makes sense in the narrow sense of the scientific method. it does not mean 'worldview' in the sense you make of it. 'paradigm' is not interchangeable with zeitgeist/weltgeist. again, please stop.
please just stop. i cannot be bothered to give you a crash course on modern thinking.
kuhn reintroduced the term 'paradigm' to discuss (changing) scientific methods, and 'paradigm shift' has been misused ever since. again, it's from plato (the timaeus). i could probably cite it in detail for you if you want. that's because i've read it, several times. it means something more like a model to be repeated, which makes sense in the narrow sense of the scientific method. it does not mean 'worldview' in the sense you make of it. 'paradigm' is not interchangeable with zeitgeist/weltgeist. again, please stop.
china keeps an immense amount of data and metrics on how their population are feeling. that was my entire point, 10 posts ago. they are the most technocratic state on earth. they monitor everything. 'don't care about how their population feels'? i feel like your view of china is about 40 years out of date, and badly scarred by Tienanmen. it's not 1984. it's possibly more nightmarish, even, i'll grant you that, but 'lived reality' there isn't the majority of people living in a greyscale dystopia with a tiny Han elite enjoying all the privileges. most chinese people self-identify as Han and as such consider the nation's success their own. you do not seem to understand this: they take immense pride in their country. the vast majority of them, tibetans and uiyghur muslims excluded, sure.Furthermore it's a bit strange to gauge the happiness of a people under a government that barely gives a fuck about their happiness, no?
and this describes so much of the west, as well. weren't you just denigrating 'identity' politics two posts ago? make some sense, please.Larssen wrote:
I know, but that is not practice.Macbeth wrote:
the state still recognizes smaller ethnic groups as equal to Han in law.
Last edited by uziq (2020-05-19 08:48:11)
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In practice how are racial minorities of the west doing? Probably worse in practice than a lot of the smaller ethnic groups of China. China also gives autonomous regions to some small groups.Larssen wrote:
I know, but that is not practice.Macbeth wrote:
the state still recognizes smaller ethnic groups as equal to Han in law.
There are there few complaints regarding how China treats its minorities that aren't analogous to the west now or in recent history.