BF2S Forums Pandemic thread

in many ways the covid crisis in the UK has shown up neatly the emptiness of the conservatives' rhetoric.

they turned a 'red wall' of labour seats in the North, historically associated with the industrial heartlands of the country. they appealed to disaffected working-class votes on issues like brexit and promised to 'level up' britain - a somewhat novel tack for conservatives to take, actually promising to spend on public infrastructure, the healthcare service, etc, rather than to cut back public spending or (explicitly or implicitly) to privatize.

along comes covid and the northern working-class areas are hardest hit - as you'd expect, and as is the epidemiological pattern all across the world. covid infections track with poverty. and the conservatives' response to this northern epidemic? to show contempt for the constituents and to let them hang over the winter with almost zilch by way of financial support (the city of manchester agreed to an aid package that amounts to £8 per citizen over the winter).

this has created a huge uproar and a feeling of popular resentment towards westminster/the rich south. lots of talk of 'the north' as a political collective in a way that is seldom seen in contemporary discourse. the mayor of manchester has become an overnight folk-hero. looks like those voters will be swinging back in the next election.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-22 07:11:48)

It's a social media phenomenon in most countries but only in the US has it really been incorporated into the belief system of political leadership. Fringe far right parties in the EU that were pro trump are also peddling this nonsense, though none of them are in government.

People getting education and training to get out of retail is a good thing. It would be helpful for governments to put up funding for it though. If you really want people to get educations to work in fields the nation needs then you need to incentivize and assist people. This is an issue in the U.S. Students are pushed to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get educations in order to be better qualified workers. But it is unfair to ask people to pay that amount of money and time to train for jobs instead of pursuing their genuine interest.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

People getting education and training to get out of retail is a good thing.

Seems to be who the online schools aim at.
Ive seen western governors university advertised a bit and talked about in tech forums. Less than 9k a year.
Now is it any good, that's a big debate. Probably ok for smaller companies.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

People getting education and training to get out of retail is a good thing. It would be helpful for governments to put up funding for it though. If you really want people to get educations to work in fields the nation needs then you need to incentivize and assist people. This is an issue in the U.S. Students are pushed to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get educations in order to be better qualified workers. But it is unfair to ask people to pay that amount of money and time to train for jobs instead of pursuing their genuine interest.

they're not in retail. and, besides, we need a retail sector. people already are encouraged to go to school and qualify. in fact, many people working in retail are over-qualified already (and they're not all philosophy majors or whatever the dumb american stereotype is).

these are people who are in our ailing arts and culture sector. i'm sorry, but if someone is a professional ballerina, that means they have dedicated their entire lives (since at least age 4/5) to a singular pursuit. it means they are pretty fucking excellent at what they do. a ballerina at the royal ballet company or covent garden is a huge cultural draw, for tourists and for the culture sector generally. they are attractions. telling them to retrain to become a fucking sys-admin because of a pandemic is ridiculous.

it's just the boneheaded messaging of a philistine government who do not give a fuck. the UK doesn't have much weight or power any more, and what influence we do have is overwhelmingly because of our cultural output. we project ourselves and our presence into the world using our music, our film, our fashion, etc. that's a truism for most declining first-world, ex-imperial, etc, countries. for some reason our government do not give a shit.

this is not an expensive industry to keep afloat. governments can find multi-billion dollar packets for their friends' and for private contracting. we can afford to waste billions of taxpayer funds on employing big consultancy companies to fuck-up our test and trace system. we can bailout over-leveraged airlines, hotels, and throw tens of millions of quids at our mates' dodgy business that has only been registered as a going-concern at companies house for 4 months. but ballerinas and fashion designers, with their modest furlough costs, should go swing? iconic cultural venues should close?

but please, tell me some more how we have too many restaurants, shopping malls, etc, and we need to fire-up the car factories of motor city again or whatever the fuck pipedream you're going on about.

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

People getting education and training to get out of retail is a good thing. It would be helpful for governments to put up funding for it though. If you really want people to get educations to work in fields the nation needs then you need to incentivize and assist people. This is an issue in the U.S. Students are pushed to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get educations in order to be better qualified workers. But it is unfair to ask people to pay that amount of money and time to train for jobs instead of pursuing their genuine interest.

they're not in retail. and, besides, we need a retail sector. people already are encouraged to go to school and qualify. in fact, many people working in retail are over-qualified already (and they're not all philosophy majors or whatever the dumb american stereotype is).

these are people who are in our ailing arts and culture sector. i'm sorry, but if someone is a professional ballerina, that means they have dedicated their entire lives (since at least age 4/5) to a singular pursuit. it means they are pretty fucking excellent at what they do. a ballerina at the royal ballet company or covent garden is a huge cultural draw, for tourists and for the culture sector generally. they are attractions. telling them to retrain to become a fucking sys-admin because of a pandemic is ridiculous.

it's just the boneheaded messaging of a philistine government who do not give a fuck. the UK doesn't have much weight or power any more, and what influence we do have is overwhelmingly because of our cultural output. we project ourselves and our presence into the world using our music, our film, our fashion, etc. that's a truism for most declining first-world, ex-imperial, etc, countries. for some reason our government do not give a shit.

this is not an expensive industry to keep afloat. governments can find multi-billion dollar packets for their friends' and for private contracting. we can afford to waste billions of taxpayer funds on employing big consultancy companies to fuck-up our test and trace system. we can bailout over-leveraged airlines, hotels, and throw tens of millions of quids at our mates' dodgy business that has only been registered as a going-concern at companies house for 4 months. but ballerinas and fashion designers, with their modest furlough costs, should go swing? iconic cultural venues should close?

but please, tell me some more how we have too many restaurants, shopping malls, etc, and we need to fire-up the car factories of motor city again or whatever the fuck pipedream you're going on about.

I think you misunderstood my post. The Azn girl in the picture you posted is obviously counting clothes at a store. I am okay with supporting ballerinas and whatever the gay sciences thinks up. But if we are going to push people into hard sciences, we need to incentivize it by funding it instead of forcing people to take on debt to study things that make them unhappy in order to get job that may not exist.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

People getting education and training to get out of retail is a good thing. It would be helpful for governments to put up funding for it though. If you really want people to get educations to work in fields the nation needs then you need to incentivize and assist people. This is an issue in the U.S. Students are pushed to pay tens of thousands of dollars to get educations in order to be better qualified workers. But it is unfair to ask people to pay that amount of money and time to train for jobs instead of pursuing their genuine interest.

they're not in retail. and, besides, we need a retail sector. people already are encouraged to go to school and qualify. in fact, many people working in retail are over-qualified already (and they're not all philosophy majors or whatever the dumb american stereotype is).

these are people who are in our ailing arts and culture sector. i'm sorry, but if someone is a professional ballerina, that means they have dedicated their entire lives (since at least age 4/5) to a singular pursuit. it means they are pretty fucking excellent at what they do. a ballerina at the royal ballet company or covent garden is a huge cultural draw, for tourists and for the culture sector generally. they are attractions. telling them to retrain to become a fucking sys-admin because of a pandemic is ridiculous.

it's just the boneheaded messaging of a philistine government who do not give a fuck. the UK doesn't have much weight or power any more, and what influence we do have is overwhelmingly because of our cultural output. we project ourselves and our presence into the world using our music, our film, our fashion, etc. that's a truism for most declining first-world, ex-imperial, etc, countries. for some reason our government do not give a shit.

this is not an expensive industry to keep afloat. governments can find multi-billion dollar packets for their friends' and for private contracting. we can afford to waste billions of taxpayer funds on employing big consultancy companies to fuck-up our test and trace system. we can bailout over-leveraged airlines, hotels, and throw tens of millions of quids at our mates' dodgy business that has only been registered as a going-concern at companies house for 4 months. but ballerinas and fashion designers, with their modest furlough costs, should go swing? iconic cultural venues should close?

but please, tell me some more how we have too many restaurants, shopping malls, etc, and we need to fire-up the car factories of motor city again or whatever the fuck pipedream you're going on about.

I think you misunderstood my post. The Azn girl in the picture you posted is obviously counting clothes at a store. I am okay with supporting ballerinas and whatever the gay sciences thinks up. But if we are going to push people into hard sciences, we need to incentivize it by funding it instead of forcing people to take on debt to study things that make them unhappy in order to get job that may not exist.

ok, i interpreted that image as her being a fashion designer as it doesn't look like a store so much, and because it's our cultural venues and arts industry that have been systematically excluded from funding support. but i take your point. thank you for clarifying.

https://twitter.com/tomkibasi/status/13 … 88576?s=21

the modern face of conservatism right here.

voted to reject funding for the poorest families who face very real unemployment and hunger during this second wave. but also ‘incentivised’ middle-class londoners to ‘eat out to help out’ at fancy restaurants.

oh and did boris mention he’s really struggling to live on £150k/year?

Broke the all time high by 10,000. 2% of 85,000 is 1,700 by the way.

no politician is following the science to the letter. that’s because policy involves more than just scientific guidance. this has been the established trope since at least month 1 of the pandemic. why are you acting surprised?

i linked a commentary to larssen about two days ago of how this ‘scientific governance guided by science by scientists’ is just a bad fallacy. science doesn’t give a handy playbook for all political decisions.

Their outbreak in Wuhan was worse than they are willing to admit to. I think they handled everything better though due mainly from the fact that they have an authorisation government and strong sense of community responsibility. Meanwhile America has a culture of "you can't tell me nothing". This was made all the worse by the fact that our government promoted denialism.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … study-says

proportion of people with covid antibodies down from 6% in august to 4.4% now. in other words, more people are susceptible to (re)infection now than in the recess after the first peak.

remember when jay said that most of america had probably had it already and it would just fade away? wouldn’t surprise me if he’s still walking around now saying ‘don’t worry, i’ve already had it and i’ve got the antibodies’.

Last edited by uziq (2020-10-27 02:00:42)