Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5777|London, England

uziq wrote:

i.e. you didn't graduate from an actual proper college.

the entire point of a thesis is to conduct a novel piece of work under your own self-direction, dummy.
What do you think a senior design project is? It's a capstone that theoretically applies all learned knowledge. A thesis is a formalized research paper that is supposed to perform the same task. I did not do a thesis, I did a design project.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,746|7157|Cinncinatti
I also had a capstone project not a thesis.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+527|3872
the point being that your course was closer to a vocational college training you for a narrowly defined job role. academic degrees are theoretical in that they give you the knowledge and a skillset to analyse and synthesize new work by yourself. so all your talk about 'caring what a graduate sat opposite me has done since school' is bunkum, because all you're looking for is vocational candidates with proven work experience in your narrowly defined field.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+659|4139

uziq wrote:

jay’s entire perspective on higher-education is the ‘chip on the shoulder’, ‘i’m a hiring manager’, ‘small-medium size business owner’ school of thinking. i.e. a collapsed flan of bad thinking and self-aggrandisement.
I have said it multiple times but small business owners and the upper middle class those businesses support are one of the unacknowledged villains of structural inequality.

It's a whole class of people who are told over and over again that they are the Atlas holding up the American economy. Most of the small acts of economic cruelty and abuse are committed at the small business level. Good luck getting a job at a small mom and pop store if you are a non-white person too. McDonald's has probably done more for minorities than the entirety of American small businesses.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+527|3872
it's a mindset that conveniently lets jay dismiss everyone who has ever done better than him educationally because he's in touch with 'real' talent and can sniff out 'original thinkers'. certainly no original thinking going on at cornell or john hopkins!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5777|London, England

uziq wrote:

the point being that your course was closer to a vocational college training you for a narrowly defined job role. academic degrees are theoretical in that they give you the knowledge and a skillset to analyse and synthesize new work by yourself. so all your talk about 'caring what a graduate sat opposite me has done since school' is bunkum, because all you're looking for is vocational candidates with proven work experience in your narrowly defined field.
Nah, college is different in America, old chap.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+527|3872
people do lab projects over here in the UK sciences when they are undergraduates. but the research is part of a thesis with a theoretical underpinning.

i don't imagine college works that differently, considering that undergraduate education is structured the way that it is to produce future researchers and academics. that most finish their adult education at 'under'-graduate (it's in the name) is neither here nor there: an undergraduate thesis is still intended as a first tentative piece of proper scholarship. hence 'graduate' studies afterwards.

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-08 07:25:36)

Larssen
Member
+99|2307

Jay wrote:

So before the 24/7 news cycle and the rise of the hyper-partisan media in America, you had a more balanced view of our Presidents. Interesting. I believe you've made my point for me.

If FDR had to deal with the US media after Pearl Harbor like every Republican does:
I read media in 4 languages. Only 3 sources in my feed are American, and the other publications have their own journalists and independent spin. From different countries and in different political contexts. The 24/7 news cycle in the US has nothing to do with this.

Want an objective fact? During Trump's early presidency and my time as a lowly government drone 28 countries had to sometimes use his twitter feed to gauge US policy on world events. That's unprecedented and signified laughable incoherence and incompetence.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-08 07:50:19)

uziq
Member
+527|3872
yes, but, diplomats are part of the snobby elite, and they're just excluding trump from their elite parties at ski lodges in the alps with xi jinping and the ayatollah of iran.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+659|4139
In others new, the school district I work at sent an email around saying to forget the date we said we are reopening. We will reopen when the governor says the state of emergency is over and schools can reopen. This pretty much cancels school for the rest of the year. I feel bad for the freshmen and seniors. No prom or stage graduation. And the summer after freshman year and senior year are the two best summers. So they lost that too.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Larssen
Member
+99|2307
Also what the fuck is a capstone project
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7191|PNW

Remember that people who don't like Trump or who question his response to the coronavirus pandemic (fake news, y'know) are just gatekeeping snobs. That the man who in one infamous "for-instances" refuse to pay small businesses like piano makers or cabinet makers for services rendered is in fact pro small-business himself. That you can take advantage of the unfolding pandemonium to replace at least half of your wardrobe. Spurn the Democrats! "Keep America Great 2020."

A: "Just a little flu."
A: "Just admit you love this (horrible) shit that threatens friends, family, and people worldwide because of tissue boxes and hand sanitizer."
B: *vaguely thumbs nose at A's military service*
A: "Hey, no need for that!"
A: "Why are you guys picking on me?"
A: "Y'all are a bunch of cowards."
A: "All this uncalled for anti-Trumpism is just soooo tiring. Why do you guys have to be like that?" Allergic to fun or whatever!
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,746|7157|Cinncinatti
Final year project that's supposed to use all the knowledge you've gained.

Mine was redesigning a schools IT infrastructure.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+659|4139

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Remember that people who don't like Trump or who question his response to the coronavirus pandemic (fake news, y'know) are just gatekeeping snobs. That the man who in one infamous "for-instances" refuse to pay small businesses like piano makers or cabinet makers for services rendered is in fact pro small-business himself. That you can take advantage of the unfolding pandemonium to replace at least half of your wardrobe. Spurn the Democrats! "Keep America Great 2020."

A: "Just a little flu."
A: "Just admit you love this (horrible) shit that threatens friends, family, and people worldwide because of tissue boxes and hand sanitizer."
B: *vaguely thumbs nose at A's military service*
A: "Hey, no need for that!"
A: "Why are you guys picking on me?"
A: "Y'all are a bunch of cowards."
A: "All this uncalled for anti-Trumpism is just soooo tiring. Why do you guys have to be like that?" Allergic to fun or whatever!
Get sick -> get pizza -> get a deck
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Larssen
Member
+99|2307
Fair enough, I'm not opposed to more practice-based long term assignments at a university level. We have too few of those. However, in my mind a university is first and foremost an institute for theoretical learning and pushing the boundaries of science.

The thesis pushes the writer to develop novel insights, applying theory to unexplored areas or (rare, but possible in a thesis) to develop new theories. I'm not sure how practical projects would help here unless you're working in R&D for a company or institution.
uziq
Member
+527|3872
the US has 400,000 cases of coronavirus.

behind it, in the worst-hit area of europe, is spain. they have 150,000 cases.

but jay will still argue that anyone criticising trump or the federal response to the pandemic is a snobby gatekeeper.

that must be some dank shit he's smoking.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+659|4139
Do all Euros have this idea of University as a place of sophisticated higher learning and development or do you guys always get bullied into repeating Uzique's ideas?

College in America is just where families who can afford tuition or to co-sign some loans send their aimless kids after finishing high school. The kids who are good at math go do math stuff while the other kids do business or liberal arts. The kids then go back home and hold their educations over the heads of their poorer friends and family and sleep with townie girls who don't know better. Most of the people who graduate eventually end up with jobs where you have to get dressed up and can play with your cellphone all day. And that's as good as you can hope for.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,746|7157|Cinncinatti
I don't have to dress up and I can play on my cellphone and personal laptop cause it's there for testing purposes.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Larssen
Member
+99|2307
Ehm, in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany secondary and tertiary education are tiered. There's a distinct difference between a Hochschule / Hogeschool, vocational training and a University. A University is the only institution allowed to confer (post)graduate and doctorate degrees, or award a professorship, and is strongly focused on original research output and theory. To get into one you already have to go through tiered secondary education (about 10% of kids follow the university-track in high school). Another route is first obtaining a certificate/degree from a Hochschule, which are more practice-oriented. Vocational training is vocational.

I believe in english the equivalent of a hochschule and a university are both translated as 'university'.

It has been this way for hundreds of years. I can't speak for the southern/eastern European systems but I imagine it is mostly similar.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-08 10:24:33)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+659|4139
I think we have a miscommunication here. In America a college and university mean the same thing mostly. It's true that to call yourself a university you need to offer post-grad stuff but when people say they are going to a university they mean they are going to do 4 years getting a B.A. or whatever in whatever silly shit they pick. I got two B.A.s (4 year degrees) from places that have university in the name. Like 90% of the people in both places were there for B.A.s

We do have trade schools where really derpy kids are taught how to change oil or wire a house without killing themselves but those are mostly unregulated scams. They will give kids a useless piece of paper saying they know how a transmission works for the price of a real college education. The trades only take those certificates as a little serious.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+659|4139

RTHKI wrote:

I don't have to dress up and I can play on my cellphone and personal laptop cause it's there for testing purposes.
I am glad you are living the modern American dream. I want to be a coach of something so that I can wear a tracksuit to work everyday.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,746|7157|Cinncinatti
We'll see if it lasts the pandemic is killing sales besides medical which isn't enough to keep everything going.


I thought you were going to  become a cop.

Last edited by RTHKI (2020-04-08 10:27:27)

https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Larssen
Member
+99|2307
After looking it up: a hochschule can award B.A. / B.Sc equivalents. People go there for 4 years as well, generally.

At a university the bachelors can be between 3-4 years and the masters 1-3.

However, both are distinct including the titles awarded. You can study history at a hochschule but also at a university but the level of theory and difficulty will differ. The best example might be more regulated professions such as law. Prospective lawyers require a university master's. You can study law at a hochschule but will have to attend a uni if you want to get the required degree to become an interning lawyer.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-08 10:34:54)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+659|4139

RTHKI wrote:

We'll see if it lasts the pandemic is killing sales besides medical which isn't enough to keep everything going.


I thought you were going to  become a cop.
That's unfortunate. You can become an high school engineering teacher. You are a pretty good looking guy. So you can have jailbait vie for your attention all day and 5 to 7 years after they graduate maybe start dating them. In the post pandemic hell scape of Ohio, settling down with an older male will be the best the checks notes ignorant rural white trash ladies of Ohio can hope for.

I applied to become a cop. If that doesn't work out I will keep doing teacher stuff and see where it goes. I want to teach in my hometown but the district is hard to get into. Maybe Wuhan Flu will open some spots in the teaching department here/there and I can transfer.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5777|London, England

Larssen wrote:

After looking it up: a hochschule can award B.A. / B.Sc equivalents. People go there for 4 years as well, generally.

At a university the bachelors can be between 3-4 years and the masters 1-3.

However, both are distinct including the titles awarded. You can study history at a hochschule but also at a university but the level of theory and difficulty will differ. The best example might be more regulated professions such as law. Prospective lawyers require a university master's. You can study law at a hochschule but will have to attend a uni if you want to get the required degree to become an interning lawyer.
Here you can fuck off for four years with an undergrad degree in anything and then go pay a few hundred grand, sit in class for two years at a law school and then go practice law if you pass the bar. If you don't pass the bar you go become a lobbyist or something
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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