Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7280
ON  JET FIGHTER PILOTS

Opinion one States...

     " learning to fly an aircraft is a skill set, just like teaching a circus monkey to juggle, though I'll be it a more complicated skills set "

Opinion two States...


     " Learning to fly that thing proves you are smart, a fast thinker, have your Shit together Etc. You can not call a Living Jet Pilot Dumb. "


Make your opinions felt draw your own conclusions and post your thoughts or Expirences.

I would like to here it.

Online
redfoxster
Chopper Whore Extraordinaire
+3|7215
rofl, horseman

I agree with both opinions! take that!

Flying can be extremely simple given conditions arent changing rapidly, with enough practice, most things become second nature, so I would say certain aspects fo flying can require little active thought process

On the other side, flying in combat, or during bad weather, or perhaps landing on an aircraft carrier (which can be debated if he landed that plane or not) all definetly require intelligence

He never saw any action, and I don't know what kind of experiences he encountered during his time int he Guard, so Im not gonna say if this verifies or counters the idea that piloting proves he is not dumb.  In my opinion, it doesnt matter, he's definetly not dumb, and Ill prove it to you.  He got reelected during an extremely unpopular war that everyone thinks he started and the economy was in a slump, pulling that one off must have taken some kind of great thinking.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7280
your straying.. your straying. Just decide smart or Somewhere between Idioctic and moronic. Just Decide.

In general...please. you can do it. go ahead.
CANADIAN_rocker
Member
+0|7188|CANADA
My uncle, dad, and granda are all fighter pilots for Canada and yes pilots are vary smart and i will be one when im older. And jets is my favorette thing on earth and i can name almost every jet in the US, Canada, Russia, Japan ect. You have to try hard and be mentaly and phisicaly smart. I think you must have good grades and go2 Univercity.
redfoxster
Chopper Whore Extraordinaire
+3|7215

Horseman 77 wrote:

your straying.. your straying. Just decide smart or Somewhere between Idioctic and moronic. Just Decide.

In general...please. you can do it. go ahead.
silly boy, this is the debate and serious talk forum, there are no answers here, there is no right or wrong, god is the devil and the devil is god, and everything is gray and all they play is beatles music and smoke pot and....well ill just stop there

there is no answer from me, you are both right in your own respects
mycatsdied
Member
+1|7235
As a pilot  and flight instructor who just flys single and double engine prop planes and teaches people to fly them I can tell you the answer is both. While a lot of flying is just a basic set of skills you need to practice to get and practice to keep there is a also lot of thinking involved to.  Flying is not for everyone ... If a person lacks in any of these areas flying can be a very dangerous thing. If you dont respect it it will catch up to you eventually. That being said teaching somone who has never been in an airplane before to fly is one of the most rewarding things I have ever done. In no way is flying easy or simple but the rewards are endless.


deadcats
CANADIAN_rocker
Member
+0|7188|CANADA
wow i have a little more cofadence now thanks. But im only 14 and i never get sleep and im falling behind in school, and being a fighter pilot is all i ever wanted. Do you think i could become a fighter pilot without having good grades????? And can you please tell me the stages of becoming there. Thanks!!!
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7280
Fighter Jets please. 

    The Convair Delta 102 103 & 106 Series dosn't count as they could take of and land all by themselves way back in 1972.  Though more Complex than the average photo copy machine it was incapable of malfunction.
I didnt know this. Any one could strap the puppy on and tool around. Bring a book though as it flew all by itself.
beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|7229

CANADIAN_rocker wrote:

wow i have a little more cofadence now thanks. But im only 14 and i never get sleep and im falling behind in school, and being a fighter pilot is all i ever wanted. Do you think i could become a fighter pilot without having good grades????? And can you please tell me the stages of becoming there. Thanks!!!
it doesn't take a genius to fly.  I'm not talking about flicking the autopilot on and letting the plane fly itself.  I mean flying the aircraft on your own... it isn't that hard.
it takes a genius to fly and command; pilots are also officers, meaning they need to be competant in both flying and leading/managing.  That's why you need the degree.
CANADIAN_rocker
Member
+0|7188|CANADA
like a dagree in flying?as in join air cadets? i dunno what you mean
Kniero
Banned
+1|7189|AZ
To simply generalize that one who flies a jet is a "fast thinker" or "smart" is naive. Anyone can be taught to learn and repeat basic input functions as long as the educative process caters to the varying levels of redundacy required for comprehension. As previously mentioned by Nipr, all pilots are trained in a method as to reinforce sufficient reflexes into their psyche on top of being fed the run-of-the-mill "flair" type of know-how surrounding the most critical of situations. What makes an excellent ace is not the intellectual attribute of "genius", but cunning resourcefulness.

B3ePl3nEs5,
Kniro
CANADIAN_rocker
Member
+0|7188|CANADA
awwww mmaaann. Thats cool that ur a pilot and the F-15 Eagle is my favorete Jet besides the F-22 Raptor and F-18 Hornet or Superhornet. There is only 1 problem that i hate, i wont get my haircut!! I wanna join air cadets but i wont get my haircut! Gah! I just dont kno what people would think about me lol .. i need cofadence
Nipr.[net]
Member
+0|7200|Robins AFB, GA
I wouldn't call it naive.  It's a prerequisite.  There's considerable screening involved in the process of selecting a fighter pilot.  Calling a pilot in general a fast thinker or smart may be attributed to ignorance, but once past the pilot training phase, the path to becoming a fighter pilot becomes incredibly competitive.  So one would be on fairly sound grounds laying down a generalization that fighter pilots are quick thinkers and terribly smart.  I've yet to meet one I would call a "genius," but that's irrelevant.  Einstein didn't and probably wouldn't want to fly a jet into battle.  It takes a special breed of human being to do that, and they're devestatingly cunning and highly intelligent.

Go out there and look at some of their training materials.  I'm pretty sure you can find some AF training stuff if you just google it.  I dunno...I always got it off the intranet, but it's no doubt out there.  There's more involved in their training than just pushing buttons--we could have monkeys do that. 

Making an "Ace" pilot...hahaha...if you were AF, you'd know what a joke that is.  An "ace" is a ten-kill pilot.  We have a lot of fighters flying out of FL to intercept drug traffickers that don't have clearance to be in US air space.  They can't land, cuz they've got a plane full of drugs.  They can't turn around, cuz they've got no gas. So they get shot down.  Boom.  One more notch on that belt.

Anyway, so there it is.  You don't have to have an IQ of 170 to be a fighter pilot.  But you DO have to be ridiculously quick on your feet, very adaptable, incredibly sharp, and have that broad intelligence that allows you to quickly assess and defuse any situation.  So you can't be dumb, either...It involves more than just learned skills.
Kniero
Banned
+1|7189|AZ
To me, your response seems to be just a partial offense to my saying that not all fighter pilots are "fast thinkers" or "smart". Truly though, when I speak of these terms, I speak of them in very high degrees. When you have the survival reflexes built into your mindframe, there is little intellect has to do with flying capability. I do feel that how I've spoken of this topic in my initial response to this thread is quite apt. Military requirements aren't the highest when it comes to logical intellect.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7280
kniero states, " Military requirements aren't the highest when it comes to logical intellect. "

I always think, particularly in online FPS you should talk like someone is standing in front of you.

Imagine you are at the gym a  playing field, Bar ,subway etc
KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit
Member
+0|7183|Fort Worth, Texas
Hold on I was a Cop in the Air Force and dealt with Fighter pilots going to school and also during Desert Storm. They go to school get LEARNED< lol and Drink and smoke pot and put clothes on just like the rest of us. It is with out question that the USA has the best of the best and ready to risk life and limb for our Great Nation. God bless all in volved from the Grunt to the Pilot, cook to Commanders.
Kniero
Banned
+1|7189|AZ

Horseman 77 wrote:

kniero states, " Military requirements aren't the highest when it comes to logical intellect. "

I always think, particularly in online FPS you should talk like someone is standing in front of you.

Imagine you are at the gym a  playing field, Bar ,subway etc
Why the hell should I? This interface is based within the confines of literacy, and to say what you have is truly being superficial.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7286|Bryan/College Station, TX
Every single Fighter Jet Pilot I have met either Active Duty or Reserves is very quick on their feet mentally. They are observant, react quickly to situations, can multitask rather well and also usually moderately to very intelligent people. They are also usually cockey, over confidant and have an ego. But I think that goes with the package.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
KillerTroop 11th Cav Whit
Member
+0|7183|Fort Worth, Texas
Kilroy lighten up man life is to short. Don't get your panties in a wad. LOL
ChiefCrash
Spawns in front of rockets and bullets
+4|7186

Horseman 77 wrote:

ON  JET FIGHTER PILOTS

Opinion one States...

     " learning to fly an aircraft is a skill set, just like teaching a circus monkey to juggle, though I'll be it a more complicated skills set "

Opinion two States...


     " Learning to fly that thing proves you are smart, a fast thinker, have your Shit together Etc. You can not call a Living Jet Pilot Dumb. "


Make your opinions felt draw your own conclusions and post your thoughts or Expirences.

I would like to here it.

Online
i actually am a pilot.  both of these are correct.  and both are incorrect.

learning to fly is a skill set.  it's easy.  anyone can do it.  if you can handle microsoft flight sim, you can handle a cessna...

now where it gets tricky is trying to fly that cessna in zero visibility, with a attitude indicator failure, running low on fuel, traffic buzzing all around you, talking to ATC, AND manage to fly the plane safely.  actually manipulating the controls of an aircraft is a VERY small part of flying.

think of it like this:  if you stuck a 4 year old in the driver's seat of your car with a stick to reach the pedals, i bet he could drive that car.  he'll probably and promptly drive it into the nearest building or cop, but he'll drive it.  being able to drive the car safely takes a little more than turning a wheel and pushing a pedal...
dshak
Member
+4|7256
Ug,

the reason he posted this was because he was defending George Bush's intelligence. Its false logic and not applicable. The ability to think fast while operating a machine is entirely different from the ability to think fast when making decisions in other environments.

ONE MORE TIME I will point out the fact that what this particular fighter was most noted for was its easy flight and sophisticated AUTOPILOT system. And thats not an opinion of mine, but instead the opinion of the USAF as clearly estalished on their own AF Museum web site. If you don't believe me look in the original post, where this debate should have stayed. sigh.

I am NOT getting back into this... I SWEAR

Last edited by dshak (2005-11-16 14:35:00)

Kniero
Banned
+1|7189|AZ
Get back into it, as I didn't realize the starter of this thread was trying to use this as basis and support for other claims. To me, that is a pathetic approach to justification. But, nonetheless, everything I've said (in this thread) rings as true now as it ever had.

(P.S. On a side note, obviously, I'm kind of curious as to why Horseman hasn't really responded to this thread since actually making it.)

Last edited by Kniero (2005-11-16 15:01:06)

Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7280
Horseman thinks some have Strayed of the topic as  Cessna's are not Super Sonic Fighter Jets. In fact they are worlds apart. But Horseman was Correct. All the Sources from people in the Professions, Authors and Publications on the Topic Back him. He always Thought Calling a Fighter Jet Pilot an Imbecile  / Moron was Ridiculous and Was surprised when he was asked to Responded to it, As its was little more than name calling. Luckily the USA is not Run by the Loudest Voice or This Weeks popular chant.

Here is a thread from some one who actually flew the thing.
all though you might want to here from others.

http://webs.lanset.com/aeolusaero/Artic … istory.htm
 
  Horseman Here and Else where always encourages others to Speak to each other as if they were face  to face. It seems weak at best to insult within the safety of the Internet's anonymity.  He also Finds it amusing that all though he works in NYC, Frequently Travels in Harlem and the Bronx at all hours, He is only insulted on the Internet.

He has the sneaking suspicion that the ability to remain hidden and safe Emboldens some who some how in there own world feel  "lacking " ?

He also feels a new post coming on
MightyBobo
Member
+2|7223|Omaha, NE

CANADIAN_rocker wrote:

awwww mmaaann. Thats cool that ur a pilot and the F-15 Eagle is my favorete Jet besides the F-22 Raptor and F-18 Hornet or Superhornet. There is only 1 problem that i hate, i wont get my haircut!! I wanna join air cadets but i wont get my haircut! Gah! I just dont kno what people would think about me lol .. i need cofadence
Ive been in the Active Duty AF for 3 years now.  Not a pilot, no - nothing more than an enlisted desk jockey (computer programmer at Offutt AFB, NE).  However, having a love for flying all my life I can confidently give you the answer of, that its both intelligence and innate skill over time.  The fine mix of the 2 is the sweet spot, Im sure.

As for you, Canadian.  Im sure the Canadian Air Force is no different than the USAF is in its officer requirements.  You must have a Bachelor's degree from college before you can become an officer.  So yes, in general, you must have "good" grades, at least.  By the way, the gentleman above said he works on the Simulator's for the F-15 at Eglin - not a pilot.  Or, at least thats what I gathered.  Without trying to be insulting, Im not sure how old you are or what grade you are in...but if you're mispelling "confidence", "favorite" and others...you might want to sit back and really take a look at your current education situation.  If you're in high school, or even middle school, it might be a sign for you to really buckle down and focus on what you need to become a pilot, and your education is paramount to that.  Becomming a pilot is no easy task, thats for sure.  Not only do you need the mental education, but you need the physical conditioning also.  Do you have bad vision at all?  If so you will most likely need laser corrective surgery before anything could happen, and even that might not solve the problem.

Sorry for derailing, I just kept reading his posts and felt I might as well give my .02 on what he (or anyone else interested, for that matter) should begin doing if they want to become a pilot.
Kniero
Banned
+1|7189|AZ

Kniero wrote:

To simply generalize that one who flies a jet is a "fast thinker" or "smart" is naive. Anyone can be taught to learn and repeat basic input functions as long as the educative process caters to the varying levels of redundacy required for comprehension. As previously mentioned by Nipr, all pilots are trained in a method as to reinforce sufficient reflexes into their psyche on top of being fed the run-of-the-mill "flair" type of know-how surrounding the most critical of situations. What makes an excellent ace is not the intellectual attribute of "genius", but cunning resourcefulness.

B3ePl3nEs5,
Kniero
--------------------------

Kniero wrote:

To me, your response seems to be just a partial offense to my saying that not all fighter pilots are "fast thinkers" or "smart". Truly though, when I speak of these terms, I speak of them in very high degrees. When you have the survival reflexes built into your mindframe, there is little intellect has to do with flying capability. I do feel that how I've spoken of this topic in my initial response to this thread is quite apt. Military requirements aren't the highest when it comes to logical intellect.
-------------------------

Horseman 77 wrote:

kniero states, " Military requirements aren't the highest when it comes to logical intellect. "

I always think, particularly in online FPS you should talk like someone is standing in front of you.

Imagine you are at the gym a  playing field, Bar ,subway etc
Is there some sort of reason that you like to talk in a 3rd person perspective? For one, it sure doesn't help clarify your stance nor your image, especially when written in an approach as hashed as yours. Truly though, your belief in this post just reinforces the fact that you probably focus on the superficial a tad too much. Regardless, you apparently did not respond to my entries in this thread at all. To me, replying without rebuttal signifies agreement.

Granting your odd tendencies, anyone here could surely see the "tough", arrogant, and superficial air about you. You fail to realize that in the "real, live" world, the behavioral facets of people are often guised with that which is only immediately apparent. Thus the significance placed in an ability to reason on an academic, persuasive level. Also, I would also like to point out that assuming "insults" are made due to a fault in the offender is ingenuous at best.

Is it just me, or does it seem that you are trying to intimidate me into thinking that were I to say the things I say now in front of your face, you would "do something about it"? Truly, I view you only as a simpleton.

Horseman 77 wrote:

Horseman thinks some have Strayed of the topic as  Cessna's are not Super Sonic Fighter Jets. In fact they are worlds apart. But Horseman was Correct. All the Sources from people in the Professions, Authors and Publications on the Topic Back him. He always Thought Calling a Fighter Jet Pilot an Imbecile  / Moron was Ridiculous and Was surprised when he was asked to Responded to it, As its was little more than name calling. Luckily the USA is not Run by the Loudest Voice or This Weeks popular chant.

Here is a thread from some one who actually flew the thing.
all though you might want to here from others.

http://webs.lanset.com/aeolusaero/Artic … istory.htm
 
  Horseman Here and Else where always encourages others to Speak to each other as if they were face  to face. It seems weak at best to insult within the safety of the Internet's anonymity.  He also Finds it amusing that all though he works in NYC, Frequently Travels in Harlem and the Bronx at all hours, He is only insulted on the Internet.

He has the sneaking suspicion that the ability to remain hidden and safe Emboldens some who some how in there own world feel  "lacking " ?

He also feels a new post coming on
To say that it is "ridiculous" to describe a previous fighter-jet "pilot" is of utmost ignorance when specific circumstance isn't considered. Clearly, you have either somehow avoided or forgotten this section of the topic. Who is to say he actually flew ritualistically? As they say, he (your admired George W. Bush) was AWOL for quite some lengths of time, despite drug abuse as well. As everyone has wholesomely and completely agreed that your academically average Joe could learn to fly (any) plane, it is common sense that it is the cunning resourcefulness which brings a pilot to the esteemed "elite" status. Your acclaimed president lacks in every aspect which requires the description of "ace". Moreover, it would be prudent to say the country is fortunate enough to have a Commander-in-Chief who can properly form a thoroughly supported, logical rebuttal to arguments that come his way.* Oh...wait a second; my bad, I thought it was 1996.

But really, the discrepancy lies in the last phrasing of your second purported opinion of "the fighter-jet pilot". Very evidently, you write "You can not call a Living Jet Pilot Dumb." This may be true, but to set aside the applicable conditions would be foolhardy. The portion of that last sentence, "...a Living Jet Pilot..." asserts that this person would need to still be enrolled as a pilot, besides, of course, being alive. At the time, G.W.B. could have had some fragment of intellect buried deep within, but tell-tale accounts of his behavior could very well explain the lapse in intelligence we all see today. Though, by saying that, I am not saying that I agree, but simply that it could have been one avenue G.W.B. may have went down. It could very well be that he had always been a mediocre-minded man, but until accuracies are developed, the particulars can't be judged. Though, we all do in fact know that G.W.B. is, presently, a dolt.

Yo's Tr0oL3h,
Kniero

* Sarcastic allusion (to Horseman 77) present

Last edited by Kniero (2005-11-17 00:29:05)

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