Have you ever read the bible to make that claim, or are you just one of the standard people that are too lazy to look and both sides. If it wasn't for Christian's the US would never have survived. Look up the history of the US and look at how it used to be. Why do you say ALL religion is bad?Ratzinger wrote:
Um, OK.....Nah, too easy.realengineerinusa wrote:
I have not always been a Christian, but what made me a Christian is by looking at all the evidence supporting what the bible says.
Listen buddy, I ain't no kid, and I will GUARANTEE that I've read more than you.
I've read the Bible cover to cover at least 4 times, and get through 3-4 novels a week, as well as newspapers, magazines, and internet items.
I consider myself to be well self-educated and able to consider others arguments.
If it wasn't for Christians (Christian's? Who's he?) a hell of a lot of people WOULD have survived.
Why is all religion bad? I'm not going to explain it again......at least 4 times before in these forums.
Scopes Monkey Trial says you don't HAVE an argument, and the last thing I'd use to support your case is US history.
I've read the Bible cover to cover at least 4 times, and get through 3-4 novels a week, as well as newspapers, magazines, and internet items.
I consider myself to be well self-educated and able to consider others arguments.
If it wasn't for Christians (Christian's? Who's he?) a hell of a lot of people WOULD have survived.
Why is all religion bad? I'm not going to explain it again......at least 4 times before in these forums.
Scopes Monkey Trial says you don't HAVE an argument, and the last thing I'd use to support your case is US history.
Ratzinger wrote:
I will GUARANTEE that I've read more than you. Science related, or just fiction?
I've read the Bible cover to cover at least 4 times, and still didn't learn anything???
the last thing I'd use to support your case is US history. you mean that little area of nothing you call Australia means more?
This is for all you gay people out there: Its bad enough that you ruined your own life, but dont ruin a childs life by forcing them through your poorly chosen gay life style.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
Apparently you have learned from the Bible that the world was created in 6 days, that mankind was created by God, that
No, its no good, its like arguing with a dog, no matter what I say he's going to keep licking his balls.
Where does Australia come into it? You said "If it wasn't for Christian's (who's he?) the US would never have survived." Justify that (properly) or I don't reply again.
No, its no good, its like arguing with a dog, no matter what I say he's going to keep licking his balls.
Where does Australia come into it? You said "If it wasn't for Christian's (who's he?) the US would never have survived." Justify that (properly) or I don't reply again.
"We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of heaven. We have been preserved, these many years, in peace and prosperity. We have grown in numbers, wealth and power, as no other nation has ever grown.Ratzinger wrote:
Apparently you have learned from the Bible that the world was created in 6 days, that mankind was created by God, that
No, its no good, its like arguing with a dog, no matter what I say he's going to keep licking his balls.
Where does Australia come into it? You said "If it wasn't for Christian's (who's he?) the US would never have survived." Justify that (properly) or I don't reply again.
But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own.
Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to God that made us! It behooves us, then to humble ourselves before the offended Power, to confess our national sins, and to pray for clemency and forgiveness."
Pres. Abraham Lincoln, April 30th 1863 A Christian. The United States' leaders use to really have a Christian influence. If our (USA) leaders still did, maybe the US would still be looked at as a place of integrity. I am not sure what kind of people are running the country lately. As for Australia, I think it is a neat country. I just responded with that statement because I am getting a little tired of the trash the United States talk.
....Only if we do the same thing to alcoholics, heavy smokers, and people with significant mental problems (like being bipolar). As soon as you bring the government into the equation, you've got to be consistent.realengineerinusa wrote:
If it turns out children from gay couples have a harder time adjusting and end up with more problems than children adopted by a regular couple, would you be in favor of stopping the process of letting gay couples adopt children?
Actually, one could argue Christianity is a lot of the reason why we killed off the natives here. Christianity is also a lot of the reason why people left Europe (to escape religious persecution by the dominant Christians and follow their own denominations of Christianity in the New World).realengineerinusa wrote:
Have you ever read the bible to make that claim, or are you just one of the standard people that are too lazy to look and both sides. If it wasn't for Christian's the US would never have survived. Look up the history of the US and look at how it used to be. Why do you say ALL religion is bad?Ratzinger wrote:
Um, OK.....Nah, too easy.realengineerinusa wrote:
I have not always been a Christian, but what made me a Christian is by looking at all the evidence supporting what the bible says.
Whether or not you see "evidence" in everyday life that supports Christianity is a matter of opinion, which is why I'm not condemning your choice of faith or supporting it. It's a personal thing, and while I'm no fan of religion, I realize it will always exist and can sometimes be a positive thing. It seems like the interpretation of a religion matters more than the actual religion chosen.
Religion and politics in combination are the reason why so many indigenous people have been (and are still) killed.Ratzinger wrote:
Listen buddy, I ain't no kid, and I will GUARANTEE that I've read more than you.
I've read the Bible cover to cover at least 4 times, and get through 3-4 novels a week, as well as newspapers, magazines, and internet items.
I consider myself to be well self-educated and able to consider others arguments.
If it wasn't for Christians (Christian's? Who's he?) a hell of a lot of people WOULD have survived.
Why is all religion bad? I'm not going to explain it again......at least 4 times before in these forums.
Scopes Monkey Trial says you don't HAVE an argument, and the last thing I'd use to support your case is US history.
The Scopes Monkey Trial is not everything it's cracked up to be, but that's another discussion altogether. But honestly, what do you have against U.S. History?
The statement was "If it wasn't for Christian's (sic) the US would never have survived"
Where the fuck did THAT come from? Survived what? I didn't see 'em beat the Nazis by proselytising!
What makes you think I have something against US history? Where did THAT come from?
Shall we stick to the point? RE said the US wouldn't be here without Christianity. Discuss.
Where the fuck did THAT come from? Survived what? I didn't see 'em beat the Nazis by proselytising!
What makes you think I have something against US history? Where did THAT come from?
Shall we stick to the point? RE said the US wouldn't be here without Christianity. Discuss.
/presses -1 buttond4rkst4r wrote:
This is for all you gay people out there: Its bad enough that you ruined your own life, but dont ruin a childs life by forcing them through your poorly chosen gay life style.
realizes it doesn't work
keeps pressing it anyway just in case....
Why not, there are a lot of orphans out there that need a stable home. I would think that they would be at a greater disadvantage staying in the boarding house.
Teddy you say you would accept gays having children if society was different & the marriages more accepted , so you let society tell you what's right & wrong. They lack certain protections because of bigoted people thinking they are going to catch some "gay" if they walk by one, they hate without knowing why & automatically vote against anything gay without hearing the issues.
The straight people have obviously fumbled the ball in the caring for these kids, why not give the gays a chance to care for the child & give he/she a better life than they had. Most importantly everyone should be judged as an individual not by race or sexual preference because as there are bad straight people I'm sure there's a few bad gay people.
It will take us time as a society to move past this as we all move at different rates , take a stand in what you believe in & putting it out there regardless of what other minds think.
When we all learn to work together we always see great things happen & accomplish so much , that is why it perplexes me that most work so hard to fight & strife with each other.
We could be on other planets & moons by now putting colony's everywhere moving our knowledge by leaps & bounds, it sickens me at where we still are as the human race.
The lack of protections line is a bunch of bull, if they are smart they would plan ahead for such occasions, especially if they have a child to consider. Everyone has social problems & learns how to deal with them, its part of life.
So yes they should be allowed.
Teddy you say you would accept gays having children if society was different & the marriages more accepted , so you let society tell you what's right & wrong. They lack certain protections because of bigoted people thinking they are going to catch some "gay" if they walk by one, they hate without knowing why & automatically vote against anything gay without hearing the issues.
The straight people have obviously fumbled the ball in the caring for these kids, why not give the gays a chance to care for the child & give he/she a better life than they had. Most importantly everyone should be judged as an individual not by race or sexual preference because as there are bad straight people I'm sure there's a few bad gay people.
It will take us time as a society to move past this as we all move at different rates , take a stand in what you believe in & putting it out there regardless of what other minds think.
When we all learn to work together we always see great things happen & accomplish so much , that is why it perplexes me that most work so hard to fight & strife with each other.
We could be on other planets & moons by now putting colony's everywhere moving our knowledge by leaps & bounds, it sickens me at where we still are as the human race.
The lack of protections line is a bunch of bull, if they are smart they would plan ahead for such occasions, especially if they have a child to consider. Everyone has social problems & learns how to deal with them, its part of life.
So yes they should be allowed.
For fucks sake, you radical Christian's need to do a bit of research into homosexuality.
It's not a "lifestyle choice" and you dont "ruin your life" by becoming a homosexual, you are born with a complex mind and many people feel more sexually attracted to members of the same sex then they are to the opposite sex. It's something you're born with, it's not something you essentially "choose".
Homosexuals are the same as heterosexuals except they have a different sexuality than you. You can walk down a street and not know if the person who just passed is a homosexual.
FFS, this the 21st century, we DO NOT in 1200 when Christianity was the state religion and homosexuals were killed for their orientation.
It's not a "lifestyle choice" and you dont "ruin your life" by becoming a homosexual, you are born with a complex mind and many people feel more sexually attracted to members of the same sex then they are to the opposite sex. It's something you're born with, it's not something you essentially "choose".
Homosexuals are the same as heterosexuals except they have a different sexuality than you. You can walk down a street and not know if the person who just passed is a homosexual.
FFS, this the 21st century, we DO NOT in 1200 when Christianity was the state religion and homosexuals were killed for their orientation.
Yes, they should. Same sex couples having kids does not infringe on anybody else's freedoms or rights in our country, therefore none of our business or the govts. business...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Should homosexuals be allowed to have children through IVF even though the child will probably be bullied and stigmatized at school?
Disadvantages:
*These children suffer from their parents’ lack of access to the rights and protections that maximize their economic well-being.
* Children are deprived of economic protection in case of death, disability, divorce, or other life-changing events.
* These disadvantages have a disproportionately high impact on children in families of lesser means.
* A 2000 report from Stanford University surveyed the legal and economic landscape and concluded that because same-sex couples are denied the freedom to marry, “the children living with same-sex partners are made to suffer.”
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/HEALTH/pare … ion2.g.jpg
Discuss..
counter points:
1. What "rights or lack of economic well being" are homosexuals exposed to? Same sex couples are able to carry insurance for their partner, even though they are not married. Traditional couples can not carry insurance for their partner UNLESS they are married. Homosexuals make just as much money as any straight person does. SO how are gays being kept down??
2.Children can be deprived of all you have listed in traditional relationships. Show where a life insurance policy does not pay out because the deceased was gay. Show me a traditional family going through a death/ divorce where the kids are not traumatized.
3. Lesser means??.......Poor is poor, All children with "lesser means" have it tougher.
4. Does that study give any stats on traditional marriages?? Do some googling, traditional couples have hardly shown being married is the cornerstone of healthy relationships and stable children. http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/ … stats.html
Bottom line:..........people that love and care for each other, and their children is the cornerstone for healthy stable relationships and children, NOT a marriage certificate. Be it same sex or traditional. 2 people that fit the above profile should not be hindered from having kids, it should be encouraged.
What I don't like is homosexuals thinking that they are special, deserving of special rights.
example, pushing for hate crime legislation. People that kill gays get more severe punishment than those that kill straights. Hate crime????!!!......I thought all murder was hate based.
Last edited by lowing (2006-11-24 04:36:40)
Keep up the good work!!!.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:
/presses -1 buttond4rkst4r wrote:
This is for all you gay people out there: Its bad enough that you ruined your own life, but dont ruin a childs life by forcing them through your poorly chosen gay life style.
realizes it doesn't work
keeps pressing it anyway just in case....
Keep clicking relentlessly, and be sure to refresh the page every once in a while to see if the -1 link hasn't become active.
Wow... You're an idiot... And I mean a very BIG one...d4rkst4r wrote:
This is for all you gay people out there: Its bad enough that you ruined your own life, but dont ruin a childs life by forcing them through your poorly chosen gay life style.
Anyway, reasons not to let homosexuals have kids:
Religion - Doesn't count, it's just a book. Don't shove it down some non-religious gay guy's throat you dipsh*t! Not to mention that it's NOT a choice, everyone who said that it is needs to STFU and get their facts straight before opening their mouths again.
Kid turns gay - Kids do not turn gay because their parents are gay, because - using that same stunning logic - that would mean straight people are straight because their parents are straight... You are what you are, nothing related to your parents influences your sexual orientation.
Kid is bullied - This is an argument I can understand, school is a tough place to be in if you are out of the ordinary. However, all kids get bullied at some point! It's part of school. Some get bullied for having bad teeth or funny hair, others get bullied for having gay parents. It's not like he/she is getting an extra spoon of bully sugar just because the word 'gay' is involved (unless the bullies are the same kind of ignorant sh*theads like darkstar is...)
Financial set backs - Thanks to the wonderfull US of A goverment gay couples are not allowed for financial benefits for kids and the like, at least not as much as 'normal' couples are. This could in some cases be a problem, but if the parents can prove they have enough income to support the kid, then where lies the problem?
Choice - This argument states that the kid (when taken from a foster home) doesn't have a choice about if he wants to live with a gay couple. Lets take that theory apart: If he's not old enough to make that choice, then he's not old enough to care. If he is old enough to care then he is old enough to make the choice and that choice should be final. And if they don't care, then they will grow up with two loving parents, and that's all there is to it.
So yea, gay couples should be allowed to have children. However, it is my opinion that they should first look in foster homes and orphanages before creating new life on this already overcrowded planet. And that doesn't just go for gay couples, that goes for pretty much every kind of couple that wants children.
Tiger
I couldn't have said it better myself. Good post.TeamZephyr wrote:
For fucks sake, you radical Christian's need to do a bit of research into homosexuality.
It's not a "lifestyle choice" and you dont "ruin your life" by becoming a homosexual, you are born with a complex mind and many people feel more sexually attracted to members of the same sex then they are to the opposite sex. It's something you're born with, it's not something you essentially "choose".
Homosexuals are the same as heterosexuals except they have a different sexuality than you. You can walk down a street and not know if the person who just passed is a homosexual.
FFS, this the 21st century, we DO NOT in 1200 when Christianity was the state religion and homosexuals were killed for their orientation.
Good post, and I totally agree. I also wanted to note that I think the hate crime stuff is bullshit too. As South Park put it, any murder is a hate crime.lowing wrote:
Bottom line:..........people that love and care for each other, and their children is the cornerstone for healthy stable relationships and children, NOT a marriage certificate. Be it same sex or traditional. 2 people that fit the above profile should not be hindered from having kids, it should be encouraged.
What I don't like is homosexuals thinking that they are special, deserving of special rights.
example, pushing for hate crime legislation. People that kill gays get more severe punishment than those that kill straights. Hate crime????!!!......I thought all murder was hate based.
i see a lot of "kids with two mothers/fathers will be bullied" being said
in my experiences i have never seen this. in my high school (and college) there were many kids with two mothers/fathers/life partners/whatever. never saw one of them picked on or beat up because of this. it was no secret either. actually my good friend has two moms...when he told us all (around 8th grade) we were all just like.."oh...well that explains something" and left it at that.
i personally think that if two people care about each other and want to raise children together let them...
maybe its that time to make people who think differently a little uncomfy about it and expose them to it more. people didnt like slavery ending or segregation ending...but after a while things (sorta) worked out.
thats just me
in my experiences i have never seen this. in my high school (and college) there were many kids with two mothers/fathers/life partners/whatever. never saw one of them picked on or beat up because of this. it was no secret either. actually my good friend has two moms...when he told us all (around 8th grade) we were all just like.."oh...well that explains something" and left it at that.
i personally think that if two people care about each other and want to raise children together let them...
maybe its that time to make people who think differently a little uncomfy about it and expose them to it more. people didnt like slavery ending or segregation ending...but after a while things (sorta) worked out.
thats just me
put it this way, imagine you have two fathers...
/end
P.S The laws on homo's should be like the middle east...they are hung..
/end
P.S The laws on homo's should be like the middle east...they are hung..
Sure a gay lifestyle sounds fun and all, until you look up the 3rd meaning of the word gay in a modern dictionary.
As far as I'm concerned, two consenting men can have as many children as they are able produce and support together.
Last edited by iamangry (2007-04-20 22:55:25)
actually i heard in some parts in the middle east they are actually nice. they let homosexuals choose on what ways they would like be killed: 1) fall from a great height 2) behead with a sword 3) hanged 4) stoned to death.namsdrawkcaB wrote:
put it this way, imagine you have two fathers...
/end
P.S The laws on homo's should be like the middle east...they are hung..
or 5) dont' be a homosexual
but seriously ya, i admit i am closed minded indeed, having two fathers...is just weird, but same goes on having 1 father and 5 mommies, or 1 mommy and a "special friend"
EDIT:
How the hell can two men "produce" a child? because ZERO is the answer.iamangry wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, two consenting men can have as many children as they are able produce and support together.
Last edited by agent146 (2007-04-20 23:08:43)
Advantage:..teddy..jimmy wrote:
Should homosexuals be allowed to have children through IVF even though the child will probably be bullied and stigmatized at school?
Disadvantages:
*These children suffer from their parents’ lack of access to the rights and protections that maximize their economic well-being.
* Children are deprived of economic protection in case of death, disability, divorce, or other life-changing events.
* These disadvantages have a disproportionately high impact on children in families of lesser means.
* A 2000 report from Stanford University surveyed the legal and economic landscape and concluded that because same-sex couples are denied the freedom to marry, “the children living with same-sex partners are made to suffer.”
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/HEALTH/pare … ion2.g.jpg
Discuss..
* The gay people get to tell their buddies that they have kids...
plus:Bubbalo wrote:
If you legalised gay marriage none of those would be a problem.................
- I know many homosexuals that would make better parents than some heteros
- they are perfectly 'normal' people like everyone else. and it is non of anyones business if they are into the same sex or not
- if we try everything possible, to provide a chance for infertile women, why cant homosexuals have a kid too? (in case someone comes up with the nature didnt want it that way argument)
of course in the beginning it wont be easy for kids in school but if the level of acceptance towards homosexual raises and people get over their stupid homophobia, then this could be perfectly normal.
but as long as some people thing homosexuals are sick and use gay as a swearword things wont change probably... funny enough that many guys - claiming such things - sit in front of there screen at home, jerking of to lesbian-porn.
many people really need to readjust their view towards homosexuality
Last edited by Eboreus (2007-04-20 23:50:39)