My serious choice on this is no, but not because they're gay but because the world is getting overpopulated, and we need less children... Sorry but that's how I feel and the next depression is going to put the world back in check..
Lolcpt.fass1 wrote:
My serious choice on this is no, but not because they're gay but because the world is getting overpopulated, and we need less children... Sorry but that's how I feel and the next depression is going to put the world back in check..
A lot of people's concern is that children growing up with gay parents will have toruble developing their sexual identities. Has anyone considered the difficulty of gay children growing up with straight parents? And yes, this is a question based off the belief that homosexuality is NOT a choice.
By moving into that topic one would make the whole debate way too broad. I understand what you are saying thoughAchangelTyreal wrote:
A lot of people's concern is that children growing up with gay parents will have toruble developing their sexual identities. Has anyone considered the difficulty of gay children growing up with straight parents? And yes, this is a question based off the belief that homosexuality is NOT a choice.
1) Most homosexuals come from heterosexual families, so how is that learned behaviour??IRONCHEF wrote:
1) You cannot prove that it's not a choice. How can anyone? Have you ever seen a gay turn straight? And not have any problems like withdrawal symptoms? I have. it works both ways. They are learned behaviors, period. You always have a choice, and you can learn attraction even.JimG wrote:
Please read over what I said.
1) Homosexuality is NOT a choice, that's pretty obvious.
2) I am not criticizing the way you bring up your children I am just saying that homosexuals will most likely bring up their children to be more liberal then you obviously are bringing up your children.
3) Obviously you will not let your child decide for himself to play with fire etc, and that is completly irrelevant, as I doubt homosexual parents would do the same thing.
4) That generalisation is not 'generally' true, unless you have hard facts to prove it. Influence only goes so far, and in time children start to have their own views as they start to spend less and less time with their parents. Children adapt with time and with their friends.
5) You are allowed to teach them those beliefs but a child should be brought up with an open mind and the choice to be able to decide for themselves with some guidence from their parents.
2) That is an opinion that cannot be possible to make not knowing the liberal values I will teach vs. what a homosexual value set will teach. Liberal teachings are more than just sexual orientation.
3) The playing with fire, running neighborhoods freely analogy is meant to compare your idea that letting children decide things for themselves IS a wise choice. ALL parents teach their children things that they shouldn't learn for themselves..and there's nothing wrong with it unless it harms them, or is unlawful, right? Well then, teaching morals is about as perfect a teaching topic a parent can have for children. When their adults, they can weigh what their parents taught them, and what they're learning on their own, right?
4) Well, as you grow older and have sobering realizations that you "are" becoming like your parents (a common reality for people who find themselves doing things they didn't want to do because "it's what their parents did"), you'll see it's a very real generalization that is accurate. The burden of proof is not on me to bear, so forgive me for not proving it to you.
5) You have misjudged me thinking I will bring up my children to not tolerate certain people. It's ok, I expected it. What you don't know is that I, and my wife, have more than once discussed the futures of our children. We've discussed the various outcomes and paths that will befall them like homosexuality, befriending gays, acting gay, etc. And probably to your surprise, and to the surprise of others calling me a bigot, we were quite liberal in our thinking. While we'd love our children to adhere to christian principles, we will accept them if they don't..and that includes homosexual behavior. This is another example of loving people and hating the sin that many of you can't fathom.
A good example that my wife and I have already taught and proven is that my daughter has a female classmate who's got two lesbian parents. The topic was letting Ceara go play at her home for an afternoon. Naturally, we discussed briefly what this could do to contradict our teachings that mommies and daddies are the best parents for kids. We let her go, then if she mentioned that her friend had two mommies, we could then take advantage of that moment to teach her that "it's ok for your friend to have two mommies..sometimes kids have parents who adopted them, sometimes kids have just one parent, sometimes two of the same kind. There's nothing wrong with those kids and its important to not tease them when other kids tease them. For you, you have me and mommy and [teaching moment supportive of heterosexual parenting]..."
Done! Tolerance, kindness, choice, and my daughter has been taught a moral value! If this is bigotry, then i'm the scum of the earth. But imagine it the other way around? What if gay parents do the same thing? Is it bigotry?
2) I understand and agree with you, but you stated before that homosexuals would teach their children that homosexuality is best etc. How can you say that when you do not know how they bring up their children. Just because you are friends with two lesbians does not mean you can see exactly how they are bringing up their children.
3) Again I agree with you and that it is the parents choice in what they decide to teach their children, I, in my opinion, feel that a parent should teach both sides of a moral issue before teaching them what is right and wrong and how the should feel about it. For example, back in the 1920's with all the racial atrocities committed towards black people by whites, do you not think that racist white folk should not have brought up their children to understand 1) why they commit such atrocities and 2)why they shouldnt?
I understand this is a completly far fetched example, but it works as an example.
4) It is a very 'real gernalisation' according to you. That is a sweeping statement that may hold little or no truth. But they again it may and i accept that.
5) I would like to excuse myself if I have ever come accross seeming as if I feel that the way you raise your children is incorrect.
May I ask a question? That girl whom your daughter went and played with, do you feel that she has been raised in a wrong way? Is there many traits which she possesses that differs her from the rest of the girls in her class?
I really wasn't kidding about this, due to alot of the civil servies we have in this country and other, parents who would only be able to afford one or two children can now afford 7-8. Of a matter of fact it's more beneficial for them to have that many children. Creating overpopulation because the only preditor humans have no a day's are other Humans...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Lolcpt.fass1 wrote:
My serious choice on this is no, but not because they're gay but because the world is getting overpopulated, and we need less children... Sorry but that's how I feel and the next depression is going to put the world back in check..
So please think about the children before haveing tons of kids.
Edit to say... I really don't think that Homo/Hetero is learned behavor at all.. I feel that it becomes more from a social action towards a person then a private one. Also this above conversation is very off topic...
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2006-11-21 11:07:07)
Then we have a far to elderly population...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Lolcpt.fass1 wrote:
My serious choice on this is no, but not because they're gay but because the world is getting overpopulated, and we need less children... Sorry but that's how I feel and the next depression is going to put the world back in check..
Fundamentally though it's the same situation...teddy..jimmy wrote:
IVF is different then adoption. By adopting a child you are automatically giving a child a better life if they, from before, live in terrible conditions. However, by IVF is quite different.
In either case you raise the child as you see fit, where the child comes from is incidental to the point. While true that a child may have a better life if adopted (although not a compelling argument given the numerous cases of abuse of foster/adopted children).
If you're fine with a gay couple raising an adopted child then logically you should be fine with them raising their own child speaking purely from a child welfare point of view.
Sorry - just talking about IVF eh.......teddy..jimmy wrote:
Bertster7 wrote:
I think it should be possible (but slightly more difficult) for gays to adopt children. Better to be brought up by a loving gay family than in a foster home or orphanage. I don't approve of gay marriage, but think gay civil partnerships with equal rights to marriage are a good idea. I just don't like the idea of it being called marriage...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Should homosexuals be allowed to have children through IVF even though the child will probably be bullied and stigmatized at school?
In that case, no I don't think they should be allowed to have kids. The reason I support gays adopting kids is because it improves the quality of life for all concerned. If they want kids of their own then they need to go out and fuck someone of the opposite sex, just like everybody else.
There's too many people as it is and adding more artificially is a bad idea. I also think limits should be put on IVF for all couples (if they're not already) so you can't use IVF if you already have a child.
I think the focus should be more on improving quality of life for people that have already been born.
LOL - remindes me of the "Save sodomy from Ulster" slogan I saw at a Gay rights march in Belfast one time..AchangelTyreal wrote:
A lot of people's concern is that children growing up with gay parents will have toruble developing their sexual identities. Has anyone considered the difficulty of gay children growing up with straight parents? And yes, this is a question based off the belief that homosexuality is NOT a choice.
And the funny thing is, you can stop them from adopting, but there is absolutely no legal way to stop them from IVF...teddy..jimmy wrote:
IVF is different then adoption. By adopting a child you are automatically giving a child a better life if they, from before, live in terrible conditions. However, by IVF is quite different.Masques wrote:
So you support gays having kids, but not "having" kids?Stingray24 wrote:
I already said, adoption of kids without loving parents I'll support. IVF I won't.
Well, adoption rules are fixed and they apply to everyone whether it be homosexual couples or heterosexual couples. I belive, however, there is a legal way in stopping homosexuals from IVF but i am not entirely sure. I will google it.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
And the funny thing is, you can stop them from adopting, but there is absolutely no legal way to stop them from IVF...teddy..jimmy wrote:
IVF is different then adoption. By adopting a child you are automatically giving a child a better life if they, from before, live in terrible conditions. However, by IVF is quite different.Masques wrote:
So you support gays having kids, but not "having" kids?
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
Well, we are in two different countries, so let me say I speaking from the laws of the US. There are already laws that prevent lesbian/gay couples from adopting. In fact, you would have better luck adopting under the classification of a single parent, than a gay/lesbian couple...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Well, adoption rules are fixed and they apply to everyone whether it be homosexual couples or heterosexual couples. I belive, however, there is a legal way in stopping homosexuals from IVF but i am not entirely sure. I will google it.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
And the funny thing is, you can stop them from adopting, but there is absolutely no legal way to stop them from IVF...teddy..jimmy wrote:
IVF is different then adoption. By adopting a child you are automatically giving a child a better life if they, from before, live in terrible conditions. However, by IVF is quite different.
For the same reason you can't legally prevent anyone from getting pregnant, you can't stop IVF
I think nature already decided that same sex couples can't have kids...
... All kidding aside though, I'm still undecided on this matter. I mean I'm not against it in a homophobic way... rather I'm really curious as to what kind of difference it makes to not have a mother/father figure during the key development stages of a child.
Forget the whole homosexuality bullshit people like to argue with, I really doubt that has a major impact on development. What this goes into is the realms of a single parent raising a kid, or kids placed into foster care, or adopted kids. It seems that these are the people that have the most conflict in them, and they usually attribute it to a "difficult" childhood.
The most normal (read: natural) way to raise a child is with a mother and a father. It's not about quantity though, it's about having both sides represented. Each sex brings different things to the upbringing of the child. It's not that 2 parents are better than 1.
Would a gay couple be able to raise a normal child? I say that if a single parent can, it's the same damn thing.
... All kidding aside though, I'm still undecided on this matter. I mean I'm not against it in a homophobic way... rather I'm really curious as to what kind of difference it makes to not have a mother/father figure during the key development stages of a child.
Forget the whole homosexuality bullshit people like to argue with, I really doubt that has a major impact on development. What this goes into is the realms of a single parent raising a kid, or kids placed into foster care, or adopted kids. It seems that these are the people that have the most conflict in them, and they usually attribute it to a "difficult" childhood.
The most normal (read: natural) way to raise a child is with a mother and a father. It's not about quantity though, it's about having both sides represented. Each sex brings different things to the upbringing of the child. It's not that 2 parents are better than 1.
Would a gay couple be able to raise a normal child? I say that if a single parent can, it's the same damn thing.
lol..I must say you have a point..mr.degman wrote:
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
That's okay. I find biggoted, narrow minded little people like you just as disgusting.mr.degman wrote:
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
I'd be highly amused if one of your future children turns out to be gay. In fact it is often said that those people who most despise those who are gay are often gay themselves. Like I said, I do not feel that homoseuals can help themselves in being gay, they are just attracted to the same sex. This is more a disadvantage then an advantage, soo if they really had a choice they would probably be straight. They dont like the same sex just to piss you off, and i dont see how them being gay effects you at all.!mr.degman wrote:
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
Sure, good point. It is also important to remember that a child from a same sex family is automatically disadvantaged due to the disadvantages that face gays themselves.GotMex? wrote:
I think nature already decided that same sex couples can't have kids...
... All kidding aside though, I'm still undecided on this matter. I mean I'm not against it in a homophobic way... rather I'm really curious as to what kind of difference it makes to not have a mother/father figure during the key development stages of a child.
Forget the whole homosexuality bullshit people like to argue with, I really doubt that has a major impact on development. What this goes into is the realms of a single parent raising a kid, or kids placed into foster care, or adopted kids. It seems that these are the people that have the most conflict in them, and they usually attribute it to a "difficult" childhood.
The most normal (read: natural) way to raise a child is with a mother and a father. It's not about quantity though, it's about having both sides represented. Each sex brings different things to the upbringing of the child. It's not that 2 parents are better than 1.
Would a gay couple be able to raise a normal child? I say that if a single parent can, it's the same damn thing.
See Zimmer's post!!JimG wrote:
I'd be highly amused if one of your future children turns out to be gay. In fact it is often said that those people who most despise those who are gay are often gay themselves. Like I said, I do not feel that homoseuals can help themselves in being gay, they are just attracted to the same sex. This is more a disadvantage then an advantage, soo if they really had a choice they would probably be straight. They dont like the same sex just to piss you off, and i dont see how them being gay effects you at all.!mr.degman wrote:
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
which one and about what?..teddy..jimmy wrote:
See Zimmer's post!!JimG wrote:
I'd be highly amused if one of your future children turns out to be gay. In fact it is often said that those people who most despise those who are gay are often gay themselves. Like I said, I do not feel that homoseuals can help themselves in being gay, they are just attracted to the same sex. This is more a disadvantage then an advantage, soo if they really had a choice they would probably be straight. They dont like the same sex just to piss you off, and i dont see how them being gay effects you at all.!mr.degman wrote:
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
haha, no kidding. i think there's truth in that! If I were militantly anal (no pun intended) about forcing anti-gay thoughts into my kids' brains, I would imagine that the temptation, or freedom seeking they'd do later would create a likely outcome of being gay! All the more reason to teach them free choice!JimG wrote:
I'd be highly amused if one of your future children turns out to be gay. In fact it is often said that those people who most despise those who are gay are often gay themselves. Like I said, I do not feel that homoseuals can help themselves in being gay, they are just attracted to the same sex. This is more a disadvantage then an advantage, soo if they really had a choice they would probably be straight. They dont like the same sex just to piss you off, and i dont see how them being gay effects you at all.!mr.degman wrote:
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
That's a very closed minded attitude. I do think that if they want a kid with their own genes, they need to go out and fuck someone of the opposite sex. But there's nothing inherently wrong with being gay. They can do whatever they want, so long as they don't do it near me (unless it's a couple of the rare sort of lesbians (hot ones)).mr.degman wrote:
Cant u people understnd , TO be Gay is WRONG, atlest something is wrong it their head.
The way of life is that a male fucks a female and not male vs male.
No gay marriage no gays would be allowed to have children and to be honest its absolutely fucking disgusting to be gay.
But isn't it, "It takes a Village to raise a child"?? So if they don't get it from there parents they will see it outside in the community. My parents where kind of old when I was born so they're not all touch feely like younger couples and I know how to act with my girlfriends?
You can stop IVF, you need medical assistance for IVF. If you make that illegal for gay couples it won't happen.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Well, we are in two different countries, so let me say I speaking from the laws of the US. There are already laws that prevent lesbian/gay couples from adopting. In fact, you would have better luck adopting under the classification of a single parent, than a gay/lesbian couple...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Well, adoption rules are fixed and they apply to everyone whether it be homosexual couples or heterosexual couples. I belive, however, there is a legal way in stopping homosexuals from IVF but i am not entirely sure. I will google it.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
And the funny thing is, you can stop them from adopting, but there is absolutely no legal way to stop them from IVF.
For the same reason you can't legally prevent anyone from getting pregnant, you can't stop IVF
I'm appalled that adopting kids is illegal for gay couples in the US.