BF2S Forums What created God?

OrangeHound wrote:

Contract_Killa wrote:

Just a simple question that i like to ask firm believers in god. Stumps them every time

The reason why this question may "stump" people is because it assumes that everything exists in a quantifiable time.  That is, there is an assumption that all things must have a beginning and an end. 

Few humans can comprehend the word "eternal."  Why is it that we can imagine something as never having an ending (like someone living forever), yet we cannot comprehend someone never having a beginning?  Something that is "eternal" does not begin and does not end.

Since the God of the Bible describes himself as "eternal", then your question "What created God?" is nonsense.

A better question might be "Why can't I understand what it means to be eternal?"

NICE!

evolution

OrangeHound wrote:

Contract_Killa wrote:

Just a simple question that i like to ask firm believers in god. Stumps them every time

The reason why this question may "stump" people is because it assumes that everything exists in a quantifiable time.  That is, there is an assumption that all things must have a beginning and an end. 

Few humans can comprehend the word "eternal."  Why is it that we can imagine something as never having an ending (like someone living forever), yet we cannot comprehend someone never having a beginning?  Something that is "eternal" does not begin and does not end.

Since the God of the Bible describes himself as "eternal", then your question "What created God?" is nonsense.

A better question might be "Why can't I understand what it means to be eternal?"

I think this may be the best answer in this thread yet.

As for who or what created God, I'll ask Him when I get to heaven.

If God exists, where does he exist?

Reject_Wolf wrote:

If God exists, where does he exist?

EVERYWHERE!

What created God?  Well, what created the universe?

Creationists (sp?) are no better than the religious.  Creationists will slam the theory of "it can't come from nothing" or "what made God?" or "how can God just 'make' himself?" , but all the while they believe the universe was created in the "big bang", which basically means, "two particles of nothing smashed into each other and made a big bang, which created the universe.".

So let me get this straight....

1. God is bollux because something can't come from nothing, and nothing certainly can't create something from nothing, thus the idea of a "God" who came from nothing, creating something from nothing is complete nonsense.

2. The big bang theory is correct because a couple of "nothings" smashed into each other creating a giant explosion (explosions contain "stuff" too, you know) which in turn created everything from nothing, because after all, that is a very self-evident, believable and original idea.


So, you can say that early man created God because of his own insecurity, but what does that say about modern day scientists who have the exact same hypothesis, only without the mystical bullshit?  Sounds to me like some scientists and "realist's" in the world have created the big bang theory out of insecurity and the inability to explain "where it all started".  Which in my books, makes them (you) no better than them (religious nuts).  So, shut up.

I note that no one has noted that the guy who proposed the Big Bang theory was a Catholic Priest.

I'm going to stop this argument now because I don't feel like getting dragged into another of these.

So: (I wrote this in a bit of a temper)

I wrote:

Isn't it funny that almost EVERY NATURAL PHENOMENON can be explained by the theories of:

Evolution.
Plate tectonics.
Relativity.
Chaos Theory/Quantum mechanics.

And can you give me A DATE for creation? You're saying that humans lived for either 6000, 10000. 2 million of 20 million years. Make up your fucking mind!

And how do you explain cyanobacteria fossils? Don't tell me they are not real - they are real and can be seen ONLY at shark bay. Why only there? Because the predators that fed on them didn't adapt to very saline conditions, that's why.

How do you explain bacteria evolving IN THE LAB? Why are there 'strains' of bacteria - some less than 50 years old? Why are we afraid of bird flu developing human-to-human capabilities? If God created H5N1 so it COULDN'T - why are we afraid it can? Why are we seeing that this virus is the same strain as the one that developed in the 1910's - killing 50 million AT LEAST? WHY AREN'T THEY IDENTICAL?

Is it a coincidence that cows need a diet low in copper - and come from copper-poor areas (Europe)? Is it a coincidence that sheep need a copper-high diet - and come from copper rich areas (Middle Asia)? Why, then, did God say to raise them side-by-side, even though they have vastly different dietary requirements? What explanation do you have for this? God put them there and they just adapted to the conditions? That's called evolution.

How can you explain earthquakes, volcanoes etc. WITHOUT plate tectonics? Isn't it a bit strange that creationists try to debase the theory, then use it to debase another theory? How do you explain sea-floor spreading, AND weird 'strips' of polar reversal? How do you explain subduction?

How come every time we move to a new place, discover new land - the local wildife is demolished? Shouldn't God have known that humans would spread around the world - especially as HE was the one who did it in the first place! What better explanation do you have apart from the one that they had never been in contact with humans - so didn't develop defences afainst them?

Is it a coincidence that our tolerance for rare earth AND trace elements is EXACTLY PROPORTIONAL to the amount that is exposed to us? Is it God's work that we need a little selenium, but no lead? Isn't it strange that all of these new, man-made elements are toxic to us AT ALL LEVELS - but God must've knew they were possible! After all, he WROTE the laws of physics! Or did the 'laws of physics' evolve into such - so to speak - as most astrophysicists would say?

How do you explain bacteria that break down chemical materials - none of which are of the slightest use to them? Did God just make it so they can eat it - for no reason whatsoever?

If Genesis is correct, then the oldest human remains should be found either in the middle-east or northwest Africa. But hangon! The oldest remains were found in the RIFT VALLEY - a long way away.

And why would they NEED cities? Why do they NEED agriculture - it is much easier to pick up berries, hunt animals and catch fish than it is to plant a crop and harvest. Very unreliable - you depend on too many factors!

And if there was enough water to cover the Himalayas, as you suggest, where is it now? That is a LOT of water - about 9km deep! All the ice in the world can't raise the sea levels more than you can run in 15 seconds. So there are massive stores of water underground? Then show me evidence! I know there IS water underground - but not that much.

And why do humans need stone tools - the bible says that they were 'granted' the knowledge of much more advanced weapons straight away.

How can a flood disrupt U-235 decay? If the earth was less than 600 million years old - then every single rock with U-235 should have more than half of it - and half lead. But instead, we get rocks with almost ALL lead - and about a tenth of a percent Uranium.

IF the Big Bang never happened - then how do explain CMB? How do explain the inexplicable redshift? How do you explain the absence of ANY elements save hydrogen, deuterium, tritium, helium etc. - until fairly recently? How do you explain quasars seeming to be forming NOW - when redshift says that they formed 10 billion years ago?

How do explain the fact that the Big Bang theory was FIRST PROPOSED BY THE CHURCH? Why are you trying to debunk it? (talking to creationists in general here) Why does it seem to work?

How do you explain superdisasters? I hear no mention of the many asteroids hitting earth in the bible - several million of them - that would disrupt WORLD CLIMATE. I hear no mention of the tens of asteroids - some bigger than the 'dinosaur-killer' that have peppered the earth's surface. I hear nothing about super-eruptions, but they've been happening for millions of years! I hear nothing of hurricanes, tornados, tsunamis and such. Wouldn't have God warned the people of the Earth about these dangers? All they knew about was earthquakes. And surprise! the Middle-East is known for being an earthquake prone zone.

How did the dodo survive the flood, heh? No-one had heard of it until they found it on a remote island. And surprise! evolution can explain how they got there but why they can't get out. How would a flightless bird escape a flood that covered the whole globe?

AND HOW CAN FORTY DAYS OF RAIN CONSTITUTE A GLOBAL FLOOD? The atmosphere holds an AMAZINGLY SMALL amount of the the worlds water (like, under a percent). So you're saying that rain can somehow multiply exponentially the amount of water in the ocean?

If it wasn't global, then why are you purporting all this 'evidence' that says it was?

Why are you so SELECIVE when choosing evidence - you seem to focus on carbon dating, but that's not how some very old rocks are dated. How do you explain a rock dated to 4.3 billion years in Western Australia? The flood? Don't work - zircons can survive - untounched -  ALL geologic processes - except subduction (which constitutes plate tectonics. And Australia never has HAD subduction). Remember what I said about radioactive decay? Maybe not, so I will post the answer direct from a well-regarded physics site:

"Because the radioactive half-life of a given radioisotope is not affected by temperature, physical or chemical state, or any other influence of the environment outside the nucleus save direct particle interactions with the nucleus, then radioactive samples continue to decay at a predictable rate. If determinations or reasonable estimates of the original composition of a radioactive sample can be made, then the amounts of the radioisotopes present can provide a measurement of the time elapsed." -- Hyperphysics

So I'm afraid until you can do these two things:

1. Show me how else bacteria can develop resistance to antibiotics and develop new capabilities in a FEW YEARS. - without evolution.

2. Show me how a global flood is scientifically possible - and if not, how uranium/lead zircons can be dated wrongly - given the info I just posted.

3. Show me another, scientifically PLAUSIBLE theory that takes in ALL THE EVIDENCE and fits in with it - something creationists have never done. They are incredibly inconsistent - not giving exact evidence, not giving exact dates or info, giving very sketchy data etc.

Until you comprehensively answer these three questions, you have LOST.

I invite a response. Posted that three times now to no real rebuttal.

bobby177 wrote:

Cougar wrote:

What created God?  Well, what created the universe?

Creationists (sp?) are no better than the religious.  Creationists will slam the theory of "it can't come from nothing" or "what made God?" or "how can God just 'make' himself?" , but all the while they believe the universe was created in the "big bang", which basically means, "two particles of nothing smashed into each other and made a big bang, which created the universe.".

So let me get this straight....

1. God is bollux because something can't come from nothing, and nothing certainly can't create something from nothing, thus the idea of a "God" who came from nothing, creating something from nothing is complete nonsense.

2. The big bang theory is correct because a couple of "nothings" smashed into each other creating a giant explosion (explosions contain "stuff" too, you know) which in turn created everything from nothing, because after all, that is a very self-evident, believable and original idea.


So, you can say that early man created God because of his own insecurity, but what does that say about modern day scientists who have the exact same hypothesis, only without the mystical bullshit?  Sounds to me like some scientists and "realist's" in the world have created the big bang theory out of insecurity and the inability to explain "where it all started".  Which in my books, makes them (you) no better than them (religious nuts).  So, shut up.

Our universe was created when the universal membranes in the 11th dimension collided, producing a new universe. Now be quiet and acknowledge that god does not exist

Sorry to burst your bubble... but there's no evidence for that. Many, many very highly distinguished physicists would agree with you. String theory is almost... well, totally all hypothetical.

my name in game is g0d1s3n3rgy.  i used to believe in christianity, but then i read a quote from stephen hawking that said god is energy.  it makes the most sense.  its like god was this big mass of energy, and it exploded and created the universe.  idk, its kinda hard to explain and rationalize, but it makes more sense than we are nothing and mean nothing and nothing will come from us.  but believing that god created us in 7 days and all that crap is just dumb. 

+karma me plx

Hypothetical, as in, what if he doesnt exist?

bobby177 wrote:

Spark wrote:

bobby177 wrote:

Our universe was created when the universal membranes in the 11th dimension collided, producing a new universe. Now be quiet and acknowledge that god does not exist

Sorry to burst your bubble... but there's no evidence for that. Many, many very highly distinguished physicists would agree with you. String theory is almost... well, totally all hypothetical.

Well you know.... god is almost.... totally hypothetical so you can't really use that argument.

Read the mammoth I just posted, I aint no creationist. I'm merely pointing out that, while it is an excellent theory, there has not been the slightest bit of evidence to prove it - yet. There are alternatives. (standard model, anyone?)

If you believe in  either evolution or creation you are stepping out in faith.

Big bang/evolution=Blob that formed from nothing into something.

Creation= A higher power created the world and the things in it.

Either way, faith is involved.

Personally, I don't think man is the highest being in existence. Is it possible that we aren't as great as we might want to think we are?

Darky wrote:

And there's been nothing to prove land animals came from fish and humans came from apes.

rofl. ur funny.  oh and also thats a wrong form of logic.  denial by... fucking A im too drunkt o remember.  but thats faulty logic any way u put it.  especially since there has been proof that land animals came from fish.  they found some fossils of fish with working legs, and partial lungs.