Krauser98
Extra Green Please!
+53|7265|USA! USA! USA!
OK, first off I'm simply venting here because currently all my friends are unavailable.  It's just venting and it's in the junk drawer, so don't flame me.  If you don't want to read it, then don't post in this thread.

I fucking hate attendance policies.  They are a completely lame excuse to lower a student's grades simply because they didn't attend a completely frivilous and boring class that is somehow required.  If the class is completely taught by a Teaching Assistant (TA) and the proffessor who supervises the course never shows his face once, I don't feel I should be required to be there.

I came to my current level of frustration due to the following situation.  First off, my university classifies me as a "nontraditional student" which acknowledges the fact that I'm a grown up and not in need of certain supervisions the university normally requires.  (For example, students are required to live in the residence halls their first year of college and take courses like "Freshman Orientation" to teach them how to do things on their own.)  Currently I'm finishing up a semester here and I'm dealing with taking finals and that kind of thing.  I got an email from one of my TA's informing me he is planning on failing me.  Not due to my grades or performance in the class, but because of my attendance.  I missed a total of 11 days out of 42 days of class.  I understand this is about a quarter of the class, but there would have been more days, except my TA didn't show up for one reason or another.  I feel those days should count in my favor if I show up and he doesn't.  If you were to take attendance out of the course, I would have well above a 90% average in the course.  On almost all individual projects, I received near perfect scores (including exams and quizes) and the only thing that would be dragging me below a 95% would be a couple of key group projects that one member of the team kept screwing us over on.  My class has no policy for an excused absence.  Instead you are given four absences and every absence over that 50 points are deducted from your overall total (a perfect score in the class = 1000 points.)

I can only think of two reasons for an attendance policy at this time.  The first is that parents are upset when they pay for their kids to go to college and then they fail out, because they are too busy partying.  The second is because proffessors teach in a manor that is incredibly boring and are upset when they show up to an almost empty classroom.  I've argued countless times with professors that I know personally about this and the only thing they can use in their defense is that students tend to have higher grades when they attend class.  I don't think this is true.  I think the correct statement is that students do better when they go to class and pay attention.  If a student goes simply because they are forced, they tend to talk, do crosswords, listen to their iPod, or be disruptive. 

If anyone can think of a valid reason attendance should have an effect on a student's grades, espicially one based on your ability to write a paper, I would love to hear it.

[/venting]
adv3rsary
Member
+28|7151
ill put it this way, back in high school, i skipped 2.5 months of physics in a row and finished with a B.. class is useless .. i go to class when i feel like it or when there is something important (ie teacher says ill talk about your final exam next class)
turkeybacon
Member
+50|6881|Dragon Valley
I didnt read the whole thing, but I agree. I say let the students do what they want (attendance wise). If you know the material, submit your assignments, and ace your tests/exams, you should not be punished for "attendance". Likewise if you want to skip classes, fine, but if you dont know the material you get the mark you deserve. Basically they should only grade tests, assignments, exams, etc...maybe class participation in certain classes,but I'm not a big fan of those marks.
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|7012|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!

Krauser98 wrote:

OK, first off I'm simply venting here because currently all my friends are unavailable.  It's just venting and it's in the junk drawer, so don't flame me.  If you don't want to read it, then don't post in this thread.

I fucking hate attendance policies.  They are a completely lame excuse to lower a student's grades simply because they didn't attend a completely frivilous and boring class that is somehow required.  If the class is completely taught by a Teaching Assistant (TA) and the proffessor who supervises the course never shows his face once, I don't feel I should be required to be there.

I came to my current level of frustration due to the following situation.  First off, my university classifies me as a "nontraditional student" which acknowledges the fact that I'm a grown up and not in need of certain supervisions the university normally requires.  (For example, students are required to live in the residence halls their first year of college and take courses like "Freshman Orientation" to teach them how to do things on their own.)  Currently I'm finishing up a semester here and I'm dealing with taking finals and that kind of thing.  I got an email from one of my TA's informing me he is planning on failing me.  Not due to my grades or performance in the class, but because of my attendance.  I missed a total of 11 days out of 42 days of class.  I understand this is about a quarter of the class, but there would have been more days, except my TA didn't show up for one reason or another.  I feel those days should count in my favor if I show up and he doesn't.  If you were to take attendance out of the course, I would have well above a 90% average in the course.  On almost all individual projects, I received near perfect scores (including exams and quizes) and the only thing that would be dragging me below a 95% would be a couple of key group projects that one member of the team kept screwing us over on.  My class has no policy for an excused absence.  Instead you are given four absences and every absence over that 50 points are deducted from your overall total (a perfect score in the class = 1000 points.)

I can only think of two reasons for an attendance policy at this time.  The first is that parents are upset when they pay for their kids to go to college and then they fail out, because they are too busy partying.  The second is because proffessors teach in a manor that is incredibly boring and are upset when they show up to an almost empty classroom.  I've argued countless times with professors that I know personally about this and the only thing they can use in their defense is that students tend to have higher grades when they attend class.  I don't think this is true.  I think the correct statement is that students do better when they go to class and pay attention.  If a student goes simply because they are forced, they tend to talk, do crosswords, listen to their iPod, or be disruptive. 

If anyone can think of a valid reason attendance should have an effect on a student's grades, espicially one based on your ability to write a paper, I would love to hear it.

[/venting]
Fuck yeah! Just used the grade we get on test to give a score...Not like : Oh well...the dude is a genius! He got 98% all the years...humm missed about 30 class tho...Wam! 40% should be good!
Roger Lesboules
Ah ben tabarnak!
+316|7012|Abitibi-Temiscamingue. Québec!

turkeybacon wrote:

I didnt read the whole thing, but I agree. I say let the students do what they want (attendance wise). If you know the material, submit your assignments, and ace your tests/exams, you should not be punished for "attendance". Likewise if you want to skip classes, fine, but if you dont know the material you get the mark you deserve. Basically they should only grade tests, assignments, exams, etc...maybe class participation in certain classes,but I'm not a big fan of those marks.
This is what my previous post meant to say...kthx dude!
commandochristian
Honda - The Power of Dreams
+293|6848|Michigan, USA

Krauser98 wrote:

I think the correct statement is that students do better when they go to class and pay attention.  If a student goes simply because they are forced, they tend to talk, do crosswords, listen to their iPod, or be disruptive.
I agree 100%.  If you do better by your own methods outside of attending class (i.e. you learn better by reading and don't gain anything from lectures), why should you be forced to go to that class?  I feel your anger: I've had a class that I was forced to attend and I found myself doing exactly what you said: crosswords, listening to my iPod, talking to friends, etc., in essence, yes, being disruptive.   That time I spent in that worthless lecture was time wasted that I could have spent better learning on my own accord/methods.  Guess that was my mini-vent.  I'm done now.
Krauser98
Extra Green Please!
+53|7265|USA! USA! USA!
Seriously, this class is going to piss me off if I fail.  It's Tech Writing and it should have been an easy A.  However, due to some stupid rule I'm worried about failing.  If I have to take this class it's going to be even more difficult for me to attend class, because I've already completed all the course work and will simply print it off and turn it in again.  I don't understand why a school feels it should make a class more difficult than it really is, just because it is easy.  I've had several courses which were made difficult by things like strict attendance and unrealistic expectations because the material is so simple.  It blows my mind that a university or college is supposed to be about learning, but your grades are based off of your ability to jump through hoops and not your knowledge of the subject matter.  I would say that 10% of all the classes I've taken (which makes a total of 16 hours) gave grades on your knowledge of the subject instead of some other means of grading.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7067|949

A lot of professors are pompous people who love to hear themselves talk.  They also think they know everything and have the best opnions on the subject they are teaching.  Therefore, it should be a privelege for you to listen to them talk.
Krauser98
Extra Green Please!
+53|7265|USA! USA! USA!
Update:  After jumping through hoops contacting my TA's supervisor and explaining my situation, she provided me with the opportunity to have any excusable absences excused when she is provided with the proper documentation.  She also forwarded her replies to my TA.  This morning I got an email from my TA who was previously unwilling to listen to any reason, which stated I should call him at 11:00 (in about an hour) to "work things out."

What changed?  I requested to know which dates I had missed from class so that I could provide documentation for any dates that I have a valid excuse for.  In the TA's email he stated he didn't "have those with him" at the moment.  My guess is that he simply tallied up the missed dates with check marks or slashes or something and now has no valid record to show that I missed any dates.  At least, this is what I'm hoping for.  Any sort of argument with me on his part and I'm just going to quit discussing it with him again and go back to his supervisor.
Snipedya14
Dont tread on me
+77|7130|Mountains of West Virginia
Yea man you beat the system!!

I have the same problems as you, alot of my professors like to make some extremely ridiculous rule on attendance. Things like you get 4 days of absence and after the 5th you fail. I had someone in my class who's brother died in the war and had the funeral to go to and she wanted to fail her because it was the 5th day. Luckily the student bitched enough to get out of the F. But the simple fact that my professor would even consider that is fucking insane.
Krauser98
Extra Green Please!
+53|7265|USA! USA! USA!
At my school they typically heed the military's directions, especially if someone loses a loved one.  Something about it being a state funded school and pissing the gov't off might lose them a crap load of $$$.  For awhile a group of my friends used to say that the "VetCard" is the new "RaceCard" because anytime they felt slighted they would say, "I'm a vet!  You can't treat me this way!" and make a big stink.  Typically other vets would join in and say, "I can't believe you're treating a Vet that way! Do you treat all of us like that?" Then people who have friends / family in the military would get mad, because they don't want their loved ones being shat upon.  Then whoever it was that asked him to stand in line / pay a parking ticket / whatever would become overwhelmed and give in just to shut the vet up.

I only used the Army as an excuse once, but I was deployed in the middle of a semester and the school was attended by a lot of military people so it wasn't a big deal...  Maybe I should use the VetCard here?
misconfiguration
GURU
+86|6831|Indianapolis, IN
School is for suckers!!111!!!
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6823|New York
i'd only be in support of it if someone was on the fence. they were at the pass/fail point and a professor can pass them rather than fail them because they were in attendance for most of the semester. likewise, if someone was not in attendance for the majority of the semester and they're at that point, then they should be failed.

this was clearly not your case though, and there is no reason why they should make you deal with this bullshit.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
Krauser98
Extra Green Please!
+53|7265|USA! USA! USA!
Final Update:  I just got off the phone with my TA.  Apparently, me going to his boss (who in fact is yet another TA) stressed him out.  He stated that his "time at [this university] is short" and he doesn't want to deal with it.  He said that he would go ahead and presume that whatever documentation I procured would have covered at least enough days to not affect my grade.  He said that he doesn't want to get dragged into a big argument about a grade, because it was too much stress for him.  I think I agree that it would have been too stressful.

Also, he said that if I was unhappy with the grade I was going to get due to my group project sucking balls that he would let me complete an optional assignment that my class didn't do.  (It's in the course packet, but he decided we didn't have time in class for it.)  Any additional points that I get from completing said assignment will be added to my final grade.

https://oregonstate.edu/research/Images/update/hoops.jpg
Man, I hope that guy doesn't land on anyones nuts!
Smoke_Deez
Member
+8|6821
I agree with you to a certain extent.  Attendance policies do suck.  I just graduated form a school that had them for all classes, and if you missed 4 classes you did not get points docked, you were fucking dropped from the class altogether.  Those 4 classes could also be counted from half classes etc., if you left at break, (classes were 4 hours)  then that was a half class you missed, and all of the instructors took attendance after our mid-class break.  I went to those damn classes, and four hours of one class is mind numbing!  Although the attendance policies suck and I fully agree they do, you knew the policy before the TA dropped this info on you I assume.  I understand some times extenuating circumstances come up (BF2, the flu, work...).    My advice is just talk to the TA/teacher, try for extra credit, or another paper.  It always sucks to do extra work, especially seeing as you seem to be a good student, (good test scores etc.) and already did your work.  I feel for you bud, good luck with it!

Posted this right after you got your good news Grats!

Last edited by Smoke_Deez (2006-12-15 09:52:02)

Mr.Pieeater
Member
+116|7059|Cherry Pie
I'm feeling your University pains too man.  One of my accounting classes only removed points for not attending (I missed 3 class, its 8am!) instead of having a positive number of points for going to class that you lose if you don't come...  That crap cost me a letter grade.  Those bastards!!!
jermyang
I've Seen the Saucers.
+38|7175|Norcal, usa

turkeybacon wrote:

I didnt read the whole thing, but I agree. I say let the students do what they want (attendance wise). If you know the material, submit your assignments, and ace your tests/exams, you should not be punished for "attendance". Likewise if you want to skip classes, fine, but if you dont know the material you get the mark you deserve. Basically they should only grade tests, assignments, exams, etc...maybe class participation in certain classes,but I'm not a big fan of those marks.
remember that the point of education isn't just to teach specialized knowledge, it's to train for the future.

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