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2006-12-19 16:48:05
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

King_County_Downy wrote:

And that's the "reactive" BS. We have to have our hands tied behind our backs instead of being pro-active like Bush is/was trying to do. Kill them before they kill us. I agree with that, but my plans would include civillians. Why let them keep breeding hatred for us after we kill all their brothers and fathers. Look where that's gotten us. We try to save the civillians and it turns into our military being used like policemen. Our guys are just sitting ducks over there. Fuckin pisses me off.
Um...  You know, the Chinese government would definitely agree with you with regards to Taiwan.  They would love to pro-actively seize that island.

Ahmadinejad would also like to pro-actively bomb Israel into dust.

Kim Jong Il would like to pro-actively invade South Korea.

So yes, you have a lot of world leaders that would agree with you, and I assure you that they have no problems with killing civilians either.
2006-12-19 16:48:50
maffiaw
ph33r me 傻逼
+40|6872|Melbourne, AUS
Iran would be much worse than Iraq. Iraq has three distinctly different ethnic groups, and infighting between these groups has left the US troops out of the fray to some degree. But Iran, oh no, millions of ethnically pure Shi'a, united against a common enemy...a death trap from the outset. Would the US be willing to deploy all their troops from Europe and Asia for Iran, and say goodbye to regional leverage? I say not.
2006-12-19 16:49:09
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

King_County_Downy wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I saw Hitler very differently, because he was powerful enough to crush all of continental Europe.  Saddam wasn't even comparable in power.  He had definitely weakened after we kicked his ass the first time.
Iraq had the 5th largest military in the world.
...and how do you think it compared with Hitler's army? (or ours for that matter)
2006-12-19 16:50:42
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

maffiaw wrote:

Iran would be much worse than Iraq. Iraq has three distinctly different ethnic groups, and infighting between these groups has left the US troops out of the fray to some degree. But Iran, oh no, millions of ethnically pure Shi'a, united against a common enemy...a death trap from the outset. Would the US be willing to deploy all their troops from Europe and Asia for Iran, and say goodbye to regional leverage? I say not.
You're probably right, but logic didn't stop us before.
2006-12-19 16:50:56
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7209|Argentina

usmarine2007 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:


No, what if we (by we I mean the world) just let him invade Kuwait?  Then who knows right?  I am not trying to play the "what if" game, just trying to show that whether you invade or sit back, something bad and nothing good will happen.
You can't invade a country because you think without proof it could invade another one.
Define proof?  Look, if you want the criteria to be just sit back and wait, then that is fine.  I do not know the right answer, nor do you.  I sit in America with pretty much no fear of being invaded.  But put yourself in the shoes of Israel, Kuwait, or some other hot spot and you may think differently.
And you really think that another invasion would bring peace to the Region?  The invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a mistake, but Iraq was weak, and nothing happened beyond Iraq borders.  Look the mess Iraq is right now.  If US would invade Iran, that would be a hell of a war, and who knows the consequences of such invasion.  Iran isn't Iraq.  You may know that better than me being a Marine.  If you want to help the region try to be in good terms with those guys.
2006-12-19 16:51:02
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7048|Seattle

Turquoise wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I saw Hitler very differently, because he was powerful enough to crush all of continental Europe.  Saddam wasn't even comparable in power.  He had definitely weakened after we kicked his ass the first time.
Iraq had the 5th largest military in the world.
...and how do you think it compared with Hitler's army? (or ours for that matter)
I think history can speak for that. We kicked their ass.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2006-12-19 16:51:21
JahManRed
wank
+646|7079|IRELAND

usmarine2007 wrote:

I like Ireland, have a few mick friends, but isolationism and appeasement never produce good results.
None of my family and friends are getting killed to keep my gas/petrol prices down. I don't mind paying twice the price. We as a nation take th e finical burdon on our potato eating chins.  appeasement never produce good results? It does when you appease your people, doing what they want and stay the fuck out of other countries affairs like Ireland does.
BTW. I have an Irish and British Passport so I'm duel nationality. You have allot of "Mick" friends? Thankfully I don't have any hick, redneck trigger happy ones.
2006-12-19 16:52:41
topthrill05
Member
+125|7029|Rochester NY USA
If we were to attack Iran it would be more of a bomb the hell out of them. I doubt we would go for a regime change.
2006-12-19 16:53:10
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

King_County_Downy wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:


Iraq had the 5th largest military in the world.
...and how do you think it compared with Hitler's army? (or ours for that matter)
I think history can speak for that. We kicked their ass.
Well, I don't doubt our capabilities in defeating a conventional force.  What worries me are the repercussions of having to rebuild a nation we blow up.

If you think the insurgency is crazy in Iraq, it will be ten times worse in a defeated Iran.
2006-12-19 16:54:15
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6818|Columbus, Ohio

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

I like Ireland, have a few mick friends, but isolationism and appeasement never produce good results.
None of my family and friends are getting killed to keep my gas/petrol prices down. I don't mind paying twice the price. We as a nation take th e finical burdon on our potato eating chins.  appeasement never produce good results? It does when you appease your people, doing what they want and stay the fuck out of other countries affairs like Ireland does.
BTW. I have an Irish and British Passport so I'm duel nationality. You have allot of "Mick" friends? Thankfully I don't have any hick, redneck trigger happy ones.
Gas has gone up since we resumed hostilities with Iraq.  You guys sure don't believe in appeasement when it comes to northern Ireland eh?
2006-12-19 16:54:28
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7048|Seattle

Turquoise wrote:

Well, I don't doubt our capabilities in defeating a conventional force.  What worries me are the repercussions of having to rebuild a nation we blow up.

If you think the insurgency is crazy in Iraq, it will be ten times worse in a defeated Iran.
Fuck helping them rebuild. Let the french do it.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2006-12-19 16:57:10
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

King_County_Downy wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, I don't doubt our capabilities in defeating a conventional force.  What worries me are the repercussions of having to rebuild a nation we blow up.

If you think the insurgency is crazy in Iraq, it will be ten times worse in a defeated Iran.
Fuck helping them rebuild. Let the french do it.
So....  you're cool with blowing up a country of about 60 million people and leaving it wartorn and pissed off at us?...   Um...  Well, that would create a huge environment for breeding terror.  It would make Iraq look like paradise by comparison.
2006-12-19 16:59:03
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

usmarine2007 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

I like Ireland, have a few mick friends, but isolationism and appeasement never produce good results.
None of my family and friends are getting killed to keep my gas/petrol prices down. I don't mind paying twice the price. We as a nation take th e finical burdon on our potato eating chins.  appeasement never produce good results? It does when you appease your people, doing what they want and stay the fuck out of other countries affairs like Ireland does.
BTW. I have an Irish and British Passport so I'm duel nationality. You have allot of "Mick" friends? Thankfully I don't have any hick, redneck trigger happy ones.
Gas has gone up since we resumed hostilities with Iraq.  You guys sure don't believe in appeasement when it comes to northern Ireland eh?
Good point....
2006-12-19 16:59:30
topthrill05
Member
+125|7029|Rochester NY USA

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

I like Ireland, have a few mick friends, but isolationism and appeasement never produce good results.
None of my family and friends are getting killed to keep my gas/petrol prices down. I don't mind paying twice the price. We as a nation take th e finical burdon on our potato eating chins.  appeasement never produce good results? It does when you appease your people, doing what they want and stay the fuck out of other countries affairs like Ireland does.
BTW. I have an Irish and British Passport so I'm duel nationality. You have allot of "Mick" friends? Thankfully I don't have any hick, redneck trigger happy ones.
Where do you have any right in the first place to talk? Seems to me you sit on your ass and do nothing just like your country. The US donates billions a year to help country's out, what does Ireland do? Save your stereotypical bull shit for your friends while you eat potato's and talk about American politics while your ignorant to the little your country does in the first place.

Whew..... In no way am I saying America is perfect, but lets keep things in perspective shall we?
2006-12-19 17:00:12
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7048|Seattle

Turquoise wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, I don't doubt our capabilities in defeating a conventional force.  What worries me are the repercussions of having to rebuild a nation we blow up.

If you think the insurgency is crazy in Iraq, it will be ten times worse in a defeated Iran.
Fuck helping them rebuild. Let the french do it.
So....  you're cool with blowing up a country of about 60 million people and leaving it wartorn and pissed off at us?...   Um...  Well, that would create a huge environment for breeding terror.  It would make Iraq look like paradise by comparison.
No, I'm actually all for releasing some bio over there as we bomb the shit out of them, then blaming it on the Chinese. All we'd have to do is write some squiggles on some of the bombs and viola! Pakistan will retaliate on China, they can all go to hell and die and I'll live happily ever after with my exploding volcano. http://www.nwcn.com/sharedcontent/Video … dId=109109

Last edited by King_County_Downy (2006-12-19 17:02:55)

Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2006-12-19 17:00:36
topthrill05
Member
+125|7029|Rochester NY USA

Turquoise wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, I don't doubt our capabilities in defeating a conventional force.  What worries me are the repercussions of having to rebuild a nation we blow up.

If you think the insurgency is crazy in Iraq, it will be ten times worse in a defeated Iran.
Fuck helping them rebuild. Let the french do it.
So....  you're cool with blowing up a country of about 60 million people and leaving it wartorn and pissed off at us?...   Um...  Well, that would create a huge environment for breeding terror.  It would make Iraq look like paradise by comparison.
Well they hate us already.
2006-12-19 17:03:53
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7048|Seattle

topthrill05 wrote:

Well they hate us already.
QFE
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2006-12-19 17:04:11
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

topthrill05 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

I like Ireland, have a few mick friends, but isolationism and appeasement never produce good results.
None of my family and friends are getting killed to keep my gas/petrol prices down. I don't mind paying twice the price. We as a nation take th e finical burdon on our potato eating chins.  appeasement never produce good results? It does when you appease your people, doing what they want and stay the fuck out of other countries affairs like Ireland does.
BTW. I have an Irish and British Passport so I'm duel nationality. You have allot of "Mick" friends? Thankfully I don't have any hick, redneck trigger happy ones.
Where do you have any right in the first place to talk? Seems to me you sit on your ass and do nothing just like your country. The US donates billions a year to help country's out, what does Ireland do? Save your stereotypical bull shit for your friends while you eat potato's and talk about American politics while your ignorant to the little your country does in the first place.

Whew..... In no way am I saying America is perfect, but lets keep things in perspective shall we?
Ireland isn't exactly a military power.  If it was, maybe it would do more.  Then again, do you really think America would be so adamant about warfare if we only had about 4 million people?

We have a major industry built around war.  It's very profitable for certain special interests that practically run our government.  If you read between the lines, you start to realize that we war so often mostly out of serving these corporate interests, not yours or mine.  We foot the bill for these wars, and personally, I'm getting sick of it.  Shouldn't we be spending more of our tax money on our own country, rather than throwing it at a country that just blows up the shit we build?
2006-12-19 17:06:08
topthrill05
Member
+125|7029|Rochester NY USA
You miss the point.

All I am saying is that he should just shut his mouth because he isn't doing anything either.
2006-12-19 17:07:23
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7048|Seattle

Turquoise wrote:

We have a major industry built around war.  It's very profitable for certain special interests that practically run our government.  If you read between the lines, you start to realize that we war so often mostly out of serving these corporate interests, not yours or mine.  We foot the bill for these wars, and personally, I'm getting sick of it.  Shouldn't we be spending more of our tax money on our own country, rather than throwing it at a country that just blows up the shit we build?
True dat-

History will show that when we have a dem in office, it's peace time and the economy gets a boost, the deficite goes down, etc. Then we get a republican in office, we go to war and the economy goes to shit.
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
2006-12-19 17:07:28
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

topthrill05 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:


Fuck helping them rebuild. Let the french do it.
So....  you're cool with blowing up a country of about 60 million people and leaving it wartorn and pissed off at us?...   Um...  Well, that would create a huge environment for breeding terror.  It would make Iraq look like paradise by comparison.
Well they hate us already.
Most of Iran is indifferent towards us.  Did you know they had a reformist and mostly pro-Western president in office before Ahmadinejad?  They would probably have a reformist in office now, if it weren't for the Council of Guardians blocking most reformists from running for office.

In short, the Iranian government might be hateful of the West, but most of Iran's people are slowly Westernizing.  We will destroy all of this progress if we attack them.  Do you really want to turn millions of people that could eventually be our friends into people who truly have a reason to hate us?
2006-12-19 17:13:04
topthrill05
Member
+125|7029|Rochester NY USA
I have reached the point where I realize the US can't do anything right. The US is the scapegoat of the world.

Everyone who bashes this country needs to look at their own and if you bash your own country then do something about it or shut up.
2006-12-19 17:15:07
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

topthrill05 wrote:

I have reached the point where I realize the US can't do anything right. The US is the scapegoat of the world.

Everyone who bashes this country needs to look at their own and if you bash your own country then do something about it or shut up.
I never said that the U.S. can't do anything right.

One of the more admirable things we've done in recent years was helping the tsunami victims last year.  We threw billions at that, and that inspired many other countries to increase their aid.

We're still very capable of helping the world, but most of that help doesn't involve war.
2006-12-19 17:21:02
topthrill05
Member
+125|7029|Rochester NY USA
I'm sorry if it came off like it was directed to you. It wasn't at all. It was directed at the US bashers.

Yes we do great things. But when are we ever credited for them? I think we are to nice, maybe if we went into Iraq and killed everybody there people would shut their mouths.

Not saying we should but we are way to nice.
2006-12-19 17:28:06
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6856|North Carolina

topthrill05 wrote:

I'm sorry if it came off like it was directed to you. It wasn't at all. It was directed at the US bashers.

Yes we do great things. But when are we ever credited for them? I think we are to nice, maybe if we went into Iraq and killed everybody there people would shut their mouths.

Not saying we should but we are way to nice.
I know what you're saying.  There are certain people here that post things I find utterly ridiculous.  I hate Bush, but I'd still never compare him to Hitler.

We do get criticized a lot as a country, but most of that occurs when we become more interventionist.  Clinton was great at maintaining a decent world opinion of the U.S. though.  I'm sure the Middle East probably still hated him, but most of Europe loved him.

I think you just have to take it with a grain of salt.  Unfortunately, people will tend to complain more than they praise, but that goes for just about everything -- not just America.  I think the world really does appreciate some of what we do, even if it doesn't talk about it much.  The tsunami aid is, again, the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Whatever the case, I think the next president will probably improve our world relations dramatically, because I really can't see them getting much worse anytime soon.

 

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