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Topic closed

2006-12-28 15:11:50
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|7012|Portland, OR, USA

viper313 wrote:

viper313 wrote:

OK here it is.  Proof of the airplane on a treadmill.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … &hl=en
I can't believe this is still being discussed.  I have already proven it.  See the link above!
No! You haven't! If I have to do this one more time I'm going to explode!!!!


The thread says that the treadmill will move as fast backwards as the plane forwards, your video does not show the plane as described.  The treadmill gets to what? 12 mph? your plane gets to anything over that, then yes it will go forward, because the forces are unbalanced...


If you could build a theoretical runway, where the treadmill could move backwards as fast as the plane moves forwards then you would see that it doesn't work..


The only way to make it work is to have a big enough engine to create the lift needed for it to take off.  But that, in essence would be a helicopter...
2006-12-28 15:13:17
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|7012|Portland, OR, USA

-=raska=- wrote:

[RFW]Xenomorph wrote:

how can a retarded question like this be discussed for so long, of course it'll take off

imagine yourself sitting in a wheelchair (or something) on a treadmill and you try rolling forward by pushing its wheels, this represents the car on a treadmill, the faster the treadmill runs the faster you gotta push to stop you from falling off

now, instead imagine that you're holding a wire attached to something in front of the treadmill, this represents the airplane and how it pushes air to move forward, you just pull the wire and start moving forward regardless if the treadmill is standing still or doing 100kph (obviously you have to overcome the friction of the spinning wheels but that is irrelevant in this case)
The quick way to tell the truth
Fuck....


Now I'm really confused... and I think I'm wrong now
2006-12-28 15:15:40
l41e
Member
+677|7090

Plane. Moving north, 250KPH.
Treadmill. Moving south, 250KPH.
Plane. Not going anywhere, because it's stuck on the treadmill.
Plane. Not rising, because it's not getting any lift, because there's no airflow, because it's not moving.
2006-12-28 15:47:18
Sk
stat padding is for girls
+41|6831

viper313 wrote:

viper313 wrote:

OK here it is.  Proof of the airplane on a treadmill.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … &hl=en
I can't believe this is still being discussed.  I have already proven it.  See the link above!
lol... the links over four posts ago... heck.. some people are still saying a treadmill wouldn't be long enough
2006-12-28 15:51:51
Sk
stat padding is for girls
+41|6831
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I've told you 100 times now...

FOR THE VERY, VERY LAST TIME - THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD BY POWERING IT'S WHEELS - IT MOVES FORWARD BY PUSHING AIR BEHIND IT.

THE TREADMILL HAS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, EQUIVICABLY NO INFLUENCE ON HOW MUCH AIR IS BEING PUSHED BEHIND THE PLANE - THEREFORE, THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF BF2S - STOP THINKING ABOUT A PLANE AS YOU DO FOR A CAR - IT'S NOT!
2006-12-28 15:53:49
fatmarik
Member
+23|7024|Anywhere i am needed

Sk wrote:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I've told you 100 times now...

FOR THE VERY, VERY LAST TIME - THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD BY POWERING IT'S WHEELS - IT MOVES FORWARD BY PUSHING AIR BEHIND IT.

THE TREADMILL HAS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, EQUIVICABLY NO INFLUENCE ON HOW MUCH AIR IS BEING PUSHED BEHIND THE PLANE - THEREFORE, THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF BF2S - STOP THINKING ABOUT A PLANE AS YOU DO FOR A CAR - IT'S NOT!
HES RIGHT U MORONS! SHEESH! KIDS THESE DAYS!
2006-12-28 15:54:12
Eagle
Togs8896 is my evil alter ego
+567|7073|New Hampshire, USA
Greatest.

Thread.

Ever.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/14407/Sig_Pats.jpg
2006-12-28 15:57:53
l41e
Member
+677|7090

Sk wrote:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I've told you 100 times now...

FOR THE VERY, VERY LAST TIME - THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD BY POWERING IT'S WHEELS - IT MOVES FORWARD BY PUSHING AIR BEHIND IT.

THE TREADMILL HAS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, EQUIVICABLY NO INFLUENCE ON HOW MUCH AIR IS BEING PUSHED BEHIND THE PLANE - THEREFORE, THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF BF2S - STOP THINKING ABOUT A PLANE AS YOU DO FOR A CAR - IT'S NOT!
Caps lock much?

The engines are there to push it forward. Forward motion creates airflow over the wings. Airflow over the wings creates lift, which lifts the plane. The question's about whether the plane will take off or not.
2006-12-28 16:00:42
Sk
stat padding is for girls
+41|6831

k30dxedle wrote:

Sk wrote:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I've told you 100 times now...

FOR THE VERY, VERY LAST TIME - THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD BY POWERING IT'S WHEELS - IT MOVES FORWARD BY PUSHING AIR BEHIND IT.

THE TREADMILL HAS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, EQUIVICABLY NO INFLUENCE ON HOW MUCH AIR IS BEING PUSHED BEHIND THE PLANE - THEREFORE, THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF BF2S - STOP THINKING ABOUT A PLANE AS YOU DO FOR A CAR - IT'S NOT!
Caps lock much?

The engines are there to push it forward. Forward motion creates airflow over the wings. Airflow over the wings creates lift, which lifts the plane. The question's about whether the plane will take off or not.
you just answered the question yourself...

the engine are there to push it forward... yep!.
forward motion creates airflow over the wings...yep!
airflow over wings creates lift..yep!

so... engines on.... plane will move forward... airflow over wings created....lift generated....yep!

exactly how would the plane not take off?
2006-12-28 16:02:49
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6829

d3athwi5h4 wrote:

No, the plane being stationary wouldn't create any lift
QFT
2006-12-28 16:08:34
Sk
stat padding is for girls
+41|6831

Commie Killer wrote:

d3athwi5h4 wrote:

No, the plane being stationary wouldn't create any lift
QFT
is QFT directed at me? (cos I cant find that quote anywhere)
2006-12-28 16:13:02
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6922|Somewhere else

Sk wrote:

THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.
No, it won't.
2006-12-28 16:15:03
pers0nah
Waste Kid
+271|7024|MANCHESTERRR
As good as this thread is, i dont believe it made 13 pages. The power of the bf2s community
2006-12-28 16:17:30
l41e
Member
+677|7090

Sk wrote:

exactly how would the plane not take off?
Because of the power of reading. ATG stated that the treadmill would keep up with the speed of the plane.
2006-12-28 16:22:34
Titran
Member
+0|6772

Sk wrote:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I've told you 100 times now...

FOR THE VERY, VERY LAST TIME - THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD BY POWERING IT'S WHEELS - IT MOVES FORWARD BY PUSHING AIR BEHIND IT.

THE TREADMILL HAS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, EQUIVICABLY NO INFLUENCE ON HOW MUCH AIR IS BEING PUSHED BEHIND THE PLANE - THEREFORE, THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF BF2S - STOP THINKING ABOUT A PLANE AS YOU DO FOR A CAR - IT'S NOT!
-edit, nvm i think i see what hes seeing. If the wheels are free to spin, and only have a slight amounbt of friction on them, then the conveyer belt will only be able to push the plane at a very slow rate. The thrust of the jets will completely overtake that

Last edited by Titran (2006-12-28 16:25:49)

2006-12-28 16:22:56
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6831|New York
and we've established that it doesn't matter what the plane is on, treadmill or ground. so the plane takes off regardless of the treadmill being below it.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
2006-12-28 16:24:11
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6831|New York

Titran wrote:

Sk wrote:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I've told you 100 times now...

FOR THE VERY, VERY LAST TIME - THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD BY POWERING IT'S WHEELS - IT MOVES FORWARD BY PUSHING AIR BEHIND IT.

THE TREADMILL HAS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, EQUIVICABLY NO INFLUENCE ON HOW MUCH AIR IS BEING PUSHED BEHIND THE PLANE - THEREFORE, THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF BF2S - STOP THINKING ABOUT A PLANE AS YOU DO FOR A CAR - IT'S NOT!
Think about this, when the plane is taking off, the plane is not being moved by a motor turning the wheels, it is the thrust of the engines. There is a reason why the plane needs to get to a certain velocity BEFORE it takes off. If the ground is moving backwards at the same reate the thrust is moving the jet at while its on the ground, its not gaining any distance, and therefore there is no lift
position is irrelevant.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
2006-12-28 16:26:04
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7235

Titran wrote:

Sk wrote:

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I've told you 100 times now...

FOR THE VERY, VERY LAST TIME - THE PLANE DOES NOT MOVE FORWARD BY POWERING IT'S WHEELS - IT MOVES FORWARD BY PUSHING AIR BEHIND IT.

THE TREADMILL HAS ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, EQUIVICABLY NO INFLUENCE ON HOW MUCH AIR IS BEING PUSHED BEHIND THE PLANE - THEREFORE, THE PLANE WILL MOVE FORWARD IRREGARDLESS ON HOW FAST THE TREADMILL, OR THE PLANES WHEELS, ARE TURNING.

PLEASE - FOR THE LOVE OF BF2S - STOP THINKING ABOUT A PLANE AS YOU DO FOR A CAR - IT'S NOT!
Think about this, when the plane is taking off, the plane is not being moved by a motor turning the wheels, it is the thrust of the engines. There is a reason why the plane needs to get to a certain velocity BEFORE it takes off. If the ground is moving backwards at the same reate the thrust is moving the jet at while its on the ground, its not gaining any distance, and therefore there is no lift
The velocity needed to achieve flight is relative to the air, the wingspan and a few other things but not the ground.
2006-12-28 16:26:44
Titran
Member
+0|6772
i edited my post after thinking about it some more
2006-12-28 16:27:56
Towelly
It's A State Of Mind
+399|7033|Your attic
At this point I would like to present my argument for this subject.
































lol.
2006-12-28 16:28:30
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6922|Somewhere else

A jet must move forward to create lift.  The jet engines are creating thrust to move the plane forward.  once the plane gains enough speed, the airflow under the wings will LIFT the plane up as the plane is jet thrusted forward, The wheels are crucial, because they provide a method of moving the wieght of the plane with little energy, as opposed to being without wheels, the plane would just slowly spark across the runway.  So, a Treadmill negating the ability of the wheels to provide a energy efficient way of moving the aircraft.   

Think of a boat. water=wheels. A boat can be moved with an oar in water. But on land. the boats right there. not going anywhere. remove the water(wheels) you are screwed. ITs like rowing against the flow of the river. you need alot more energy to overcome the flow of water, more than a jet aircraft can handle. But not a rocket.

The jet engines do not fly a plane. they do not have the power alone, they need lift.  NOw, IF a rocket or missile had wheels and on a treadmill, it would launch without a problem. A rocket or missile flys soley on its boosting engine, its wings only for steering purposes.  The plane is pushed by its engines, but needs speed to take off Speed=airflow under the wings.   A treadmill is a belt, simply. anyone who has ever been around a belted machine knows that belts create limited airflow, not enough for this theroy to do any good.

A plane with its engines thrusting to make the aircraft move 250KPH ON ITS WHEELS, while the treadmill going 250KPH goingthe opposite way, negates the planes movement.  if the plane was going 249KPH, and the Treadmill was going 250KPH, the plane would move slowly backwards.   THE WHEELS ARE VITAL to roll the plane forward from the thrust of the engines forward to gain speed to create ariflow under the wings. 

PUSH A HEAVY CART! its hard to get it started, but once you do, its easy. ITS MOMENTUM,  the plane flies once the wheels have helped the plane to gather momentum at takeoff! The plane MUST HAVE FORWARD MOMENTUM to achieve sufficient airflow

Last edited by RoosterCantrell (2006-12-28 16:29:35)

2006-12-28 16:31:52
Sk
stat padding is for girls
+41|6831

k30dxedle wrote:

Sk wrote:

exactly how would the plane not take off?
Because of the power of reading. ATG stated that the treadmill would keep up with the speed of the plane.
great! I'm glad it will!

makes not a blind bit of difference....

all it means is that the wheels on the plane will be turning at TWICE the speed the plane is moving forward.

AGAIN (sheesh.. how many times?) the plane is NOT driven by it's wheels, therefore, it makes NO difference whether they are spinning at 5000mph... the plane will be PUSHED forward by it's jet engines!

Please, before anyone posts this again... go do this:

get a toy car.
stick it on a bed sheet.
place a marker on the floor to indicate where the car is starting from.
push the car for 30 seconds at a moderate force.
place another marker where the car has got to after 30 seconds.
measure the distance. (for the purpose of this, lets say it moved 30cm!)
NEXT

put the car back to the first marker.
get a friend to pull the sheet out from under the car at a rate of 30cm every 30 seconds (as to match the distance you can push the car in 30 seconds - proven above).
as the sheet is being pulled, you push the car with exactly the same force you did previously.
time how long it takes before you run out of bed sheet.
place a marker at the point the car got to as you hit the end of the sheet.
measure the distance between the starting marker, and this newly placed marker.
now, divide this distance, by the time taken.

funnily enough, you'll find the car has moved at a rate just shy of 1cm per second (or just short 30cm every 30 seconds).

I've done this THREE times in a row now with the help of my wife.
If I had a camera, I'd record it, but I dont.

However, each time, the car has moved somewhere between 20 and 30cm every 30 seconds.... EACH time....

so... lets put it into context..

the sheet = the treadmill
the toy car = the plane
the finger = the plane's jet thrust

so.. PLEASE don't say it WONT move until you've done this, as you'll only end up looking silly.
2006-12-28 16:33:53
Eagle
Togs8896 is my evil alter ego
+567|7073|New Hampshire, USA
someone's gonna have to send this to NASA or the FAA or something to get a professional answer.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/14407/Sig_Pats.jpg
2006-12-28 16:34:19
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6831|New York
roostercantrell: you are absolutely correct. the momentum is the key. but you missed something.

because the wheels are near-frictionless, it doesn't matter that the treadmill is there at all. the wheels will spin with little or no bearing on how the plane behaves. drag will be more of a factor than the friction in the bearings. remember, f r e e   s p i n n i n g   w h e e l s. 

because the plane has forward momentum, it WILL move forward on the treadmill, and gain airspeed, and gain lift.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
2006-12-28 16:36:37
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6922|Somewhere else

"you push the car with exactly the same force you did previously."

And what did you use to guage this exact same force?

Topic closed

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