darkside
Member
+0|6748
Okay so the game has been out for a long time and people are moving on. Can someone who knows the secret about dogfighting finally let me in on the "big secret"? What am I talking about? Well, I've played every kit, every vehicle and have learned all their nuances and more or less mastered them all... except jets. Specifically the heat seeking missiles- so not exactly restricted to jets but to ground based AA as well. I simply cant seem to figure them out. I cant get them to hit reliably, it always seems so random.

But I know it's not. There is some subtle trick to them because there have been plenty of times I'm flying in the air and trying the same evasive maneuvers as anyone else but while my opponent would dodge just about all my missiles I get hit ~90% of the time. The contrast is highly frustrating and I'd be most grateful to anyone who can provide me with some tips on how do I get my missiles to hit, and how I can dodge other people's missiles. I use a joystick and I am quite a good flyer.

For example, when I hear the sounds of a lock, the first thing I do is flip to my rear camera to try and identifyt he threat- is it a jet behind me? If so, I make a sharp turn as hard as I can, varying in direction often to test each way- up, down, left, right. The opponent doe snot fire missiles right away but fires them while I am making my sharp banking turn, and even if I drop flares I get hit twice very quickly and blow up. Ok I am cool with that, but the thing is when I try doing the same thing to an opponent when I am behind them, my missiles just fly right past them. They don't hit. It is incredibly rare that they do hit while my opponent is banking hard on a turn.

I cannot pull my joystick and harder, so I cannot make a tighter turn than I already am. I have experimented with using afterburners or not, either way, I get hit. I try toggling engines down too. I really have spent many hours just trying anything I can think of but sadly I cannot figure it out.

Or maybe it's not the evasion part, maybe its the firing part that I am doing wrong, maybe if you fire the missiles right they just cannot be evaded? So I tried different thing son that end, from varying the distance I fire my missiles from to varying how my crosshair leads the target (ahead/behind/right on). again no conclusive results. I feel I have exhausted all my variables but I know there's something I overlooked.

But what is it?

Just recently I noticed a BF2 video on YouTube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPTwGSrjsgo which reveals the secret of leading targets (you actually have to aim BEHINd a moving soldier to hit them) I will try applying this more in my jet combat trials but like I said I have already tried leading behind but maybe just no far enough? Does it even make a difference where your crosshair is pointing when firing heat seeking missiles after obtaining a lock on your target? Not sure
=MI5=CHRISTIAN
Me Gusta Karma Mucho
+49|6818|Leftern America
Uhh, I really don't know the meaning of your post so here is a clip of a narcoleptic dog.

Last edited by =MI5=CHRISTIAN (2007-01-05 17:51:11)

darkside
Member
+0|6748
Hey man, where did you get that video of me while at work?
=MI5=CHRISTIAN
Me Gusta Karma Mucho
+49|6818|Leftern America
I have secret ninja skills...
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6842|Portland, OR, USA
down to the right and twist.

and the j 10
darkside
Member
+0|6748
Yeah I know, it's a long post- I apologize. I just had too much to say.

Here is an attempt at some cliff notes:

- I consider myself a good flyer and use joystick

- Vs. decent jet pilots no matter what I do I cant hit them with heat seeking missiles, type of jet doesnt matter. they just make a seemingly standard banking turn and I miss.

- Vs. same players if I am the one being chased I always get shot down- even performing same maneuvers.

- newbies who fly jets slower than a tank dont count, anyone can hit them

what am I doing wrong?
darkside
Member
+0|6748

CommieChipmunk wrote:

down to the right and twist.

and the j 10
You know, that's actually something I didn't try much because the twist on my joystick is broken. However, when I observe how people fly when evading my missiles I really don't notice them twisting... I'm sure some of them did but the majority don't seem to use that
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6842|Portland, OR, USA

darkside wrote:

Yeah I know, it's a long post- I apologize. I just had too much to say.

Here is an attempt at some cliff notes:

- I consider myself a good flyer and use joystick

- Vs. decent jet pilots no matter what I do I cant hit them with heat seeking missiles, type of jet doesnt matter. they just make a seemingly standard banking turn and I miss.

- Vs. same players if I am the one being chased I always get shot down- even performing same maneuvers.

- newbies who fly jets slower than a tank dont count, anyone can hit them

what am I doing wrong?
Honestly, if you're in an f35b vs a j 10 you'll lose 85% of the time.  The trick is to do a modified barrel roll when trying to evade missiles fired from the carrier.  You pull your joystick down, to the right or left (whichever is most convenient) then twist (yaw), works to evade at least 5 missiles every time
=MI5=CHRISTIAN
Me Gusta Karma Mucho
+49|6818|Leftern America

darkside wrote:

what am I doing wrong?
Flying, stick to groundpounding.
SteikeTa
Member
+153|7020|Norway/Norwegen/ Norge/Noruega
what do you usually fly? witch plane?
=MI5=CHRISTIAN
Me Gusta Karma Mucho
+49|6818|Leftern America
The HIND
darkside
Member
+0|6748

SteikeTa wrote:

what do you usually fly? witch plane?
I have logged pretty substantial hours with all the planes, total of 59 hours as aviator. I really can't say there's one I usually fly. I like the J10 and F18 best of course because they definitely have an advantage like others here expressed.
darkside
Member
+0|6748

=MI5=CHRISTIAN wrote:

darkside wrote:

what am I doing wrong?
Flying, stick to groundpounding.
Hehe, good point, and I usually try to do that until the other team's pilots make it impossible to last in a vehicle for more than 10 seconds and I hate to run around
adv3rsary
Member
+28|6988
no big trick to it really, always aim for where your target will be not where he is, try and catch target by surprise as close as you can, if you're shooting a j10, once they flare, shoot all missles.. if you'r lucky 1-2 sometimes 3 hit... as for everything else, comes with practice and noone can teach you
JaggedPanther
Member
+61|6746
Do you notice what maps are you flying on where you get killed? I notice I'm on Dalian plant where I get shot down constantly.

The flares go down wards right away, so if you hear the tone of someone on your tail, dip up right away then change views to see where it's coming from. If it's a plane hit the flares, dip down and start turning (the flares will gain height and go up a bit since you dipped up giving you more time to evade).
If it came from IGLA then dipping up will do you no harm anyway (also the flares will do the same thing and give you more time.


Some pilots I just can't hit and some pilots have missles that go through flares, nothing I can't do about it.
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6736|meh-land
when missiles are after you don't toggle the afterburners, especially after dropping flares, as missiles will follow afterburners through flares, and they appear to hit more often too if you are using afterburners while dodging

what i do is i fly at 300-400 altitude most of the time, and if a jet gets on my tail its a few loops and such to see if they suck, and if they don't suck, then its time to fly a bit higher.  Get to 600 altitude, and try pushing down into a loop with your nose leading, missiles have problems hitting you at that angle, and tend to bounce off your jet.  And remember that the F35 can reach the highest speed if you use afterburners going down, so use that in a loop and most pilots will lose you.  Some wait for you to stop and then you're screwed.  If the pilot sucks though, loose them on barrel rolls and then own them from behind with a few missiles

of course, this is for the F35, and it works around 50% to maybe 66% of the time, and generally you'll take a hit regardless of what you do, so yeah..
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6925
You can probably ignore most of the posts above this one.

I take it you're somewhat experienced in dogfighting, so I'll tell you the golden rule.

Turn in the way that forces your opponent to turn the most.

in other words, counter everything. If you meet head on and he does a loop up, do a loop up too. counter his every move with the exact opposite (or follow him exactly as he does) and you cannot lose in an equal/superior jet. I know a pilot is good if he can make it past this tactic, because I've only ever had 3 people do it. Eventually people always slip up and try to turn a different way, or start rolling, or just make subtle mistakes gradually giving me more and more angle. To know everything your opponent is doing, you will need to use the fly-by camera, rear view sucks.

As retardedly simple as that rule might sound, it works, and very few people actually do it right.

pub pilots do not use the fly-by camera. simply turn as hard as you can, wait to leave his cockpit view, and reverse directions. This takes a lot of practice to get right, but a pilot who does not use the fly by camera will not be able to see where you have gone, and will have to guess. a second or third reversal paired with slowing down a little bit will let you engage the sciccors, which, as you're slowing down, you will win should your pursuer be lucky enough to guess where you've gone

another golden pub rule: If an enemy jet can be or is up, do not engage anything else. Fly high and hunt only the jet.

this means turning constantly, switching between cameras like a madman, and listening. I can hear jets from about 300 meters away.

If you follow the above you will be able to survive almost anything on a pub.

Now, enough about my lesson in dogfighting.

I have the exact same problem as you do. My missles are unreliable even against MiGs, and it is extremely frustrating as I know perfectly well that a well fired missle cannot be dodged in said jet, and nor am I able to do it, but my missles just go straight through enemy MiG's and SU's.

A normal person cannot dodge a missle fired at them from a low angle in a MiG-29, F-35, or any of the bombers. and against most people, that rule works, but sometimes there's some random dude on a pub who just will not go down, and has 6 missles go clean through his engine.

Just remember, It's BF2.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
The_Jester
Member
+52|6763|Italy

Blehm98 wrote:

when missiles are after you don't toggle the afterburners, especially after dropping flares, as missiles will follow afterburners through flares, and they appear to hit more often too if you are using afterburners while dodging
Seriously? I always use AB when evading and get hit anyway most of the times, but I'm poo at dogfighting.
Can someone confirm this?
[TP~Bravo]Wiggy
Failure By Design
+39|6818|Cardiff, Wales, Uk.
Few simple yet effective tips.

-As you are about to fire missiles im the center of your jet hud (with the crosshair) ahead of the jet if they are turning, pretty obvious but often forgotten.
-Never lock on any longer than needed, if he turns into a tight bank, switch to BOMB mode, this will dis-engage the missile tone. and also as soon you have a lock tone and you have enough judgement your missiles will hit, fire 2-3 depending on how much they are smoking, then automatically switch to bomb mode after you have fired them.
[1stSSF]=Wing-Ho=
Member
+0|6593
My secret to dogfighting:

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=5339818106306788876&


I'm serious. This is how I learned to fly as good as I do now, watching these kinds of videos.
Learn from the past to conquer the future lol.
wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|6732|UK
Read sarge 1.4's aviator guide. If you haven't already.
JaggedPanther
Member
+61|6746

The_Jester wrote:

Blehm98 wrote:

when missiles are after you don't toggle the afterburners, especially after dropping flares, as missiles will follow afterburners through flares, and they appear to hit more often too if you are using afterburners while dodging
Seriously? I always use AB when evading and get hit anyway most of the times, but I'm poo at dogfighting.
Can someone confirm this?
Not activating afterburners after dropping flares is something we may have taken for granted thus may not been mentioned. Do not do it and to make it a point I'll capitize it:


DO NOT USE AFTERBURNERS AFTER YOU DROPPED FLARES. Only use them when you have no flares or anything else at your disposal.
Chief_(OwNaGe)
Member
+46|6716
Search. I know there is a guide by someone, I think it's by SargeV1.4, but im not sure. It's very well done, try finding that.

Edit: Yep, I typed 'dogfighting guide' in the search and this was one of the first things to come up.

Last edited by Chief_(OwNaGe) (2007-01-06 14:45:57)

darkside
Member
+0|6748
thank you all for your great input- I greatly appreciate it!! I will pour over this information now and try to apply it to my gameplay. Wish me luck
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6919

JaggedPanther wrote:

The_Jester wrote:

Blehm98 wrote:

when missiles are after you don't toggle the afterburners, especially after dropping flares, as missiles will follow afterburners through flares, and they appear to hit more often too if you are using afterburners while dodging
Seriously? I always use AB when evading and get hit anyway most of the times, but I'm poo at dogfighting.
Can someone confirm this?
Not activating afterburners after dropping flares is something we may have taken for granted thus may not been mentioned. Do not do it and to make it a point I'll capitize it:


DO NOT USE AFTERBURNERS AFTER YOU DROPPED FLARES. Only use them when you have no flares or anything else at your disposal.
uM... thats not true. If you really want missles to miss simply pitch forward in all your turns instead of pulling back. And make sure you afterburner. Your opponent will see your underside when chasing you. You cannot turn very sharp when doing this but missles will miss you almost every time unless you are in the F35. The F15 isn't very great at it either but it still works somewhat. The Su-34, Su-30 and Mig 29 get hit occasionally but not often. I'm not sure what the reason's are for this. Haven't ruled out all the variables.

Don't keep doing it though. It makes it easy for your oponent to stay behind you. Wait till you know he's out of missles and then revert to pulling back on turns.

Oh yeah, and speed helps with missles. The slower you go the better chance they will hit you. Speeds 800 and less are bad. Don't fly that slow ever.

Last edited by Ajax_the_Great1 (2007-01-07 04:31:09)

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