BF2S Forums Commanders in vehicles

SgtHeihn wrote:

I'll admit I've done it before, but the other day I was playing a Euro map and our commander grabbed a tank, and sat in our base and did nothing..... I mean nothing, not a uav or arty nothing. I tried to mutiny but nobody voted. Ended up loosing the round. Now my view, commanders on foot or sitting in a safe place doing their job. Don't get me started on jet whoring commanders.

This is exactly the reason why I don't like commanders in vehicles. I've seen it too many times as we all have. I don't care if you could fly a jet, drink a beer, juggle plates on your foot, skip rope, all at the same time. When you hit that button saying you've excepted command your saying to your team you will give them 100% of your undivided attention. As for Servers imposing there own rules, I have no problem with that either. After all there the ones that pay the bills there and if you are a guest on that server you should abide there rules. If you don't like them, then leave.

1. If he is flying around or using a tank and dont support us with UAV,Supplies,Artillery -> call mutiny or ban !
But if he is running as infantry but still doing things....thats okey.

2. Sitting in a transportchopper while commanding ? Prolly building up hours and still doing his job why not ?

DSRTurtle wrote:

The admin did not break the ROE.  Clan Admins may ceate and enforce rules so long as they don't contridict the global Rules.  This includes prohibiting commanders using vehicles.

Personally I have issues with Flying Commanders. and as an admin on a server that has a no flying commander rule, I enforce it ruthlessly for both sides.

As to commanders in tanks and other ground vehicles as long they are providing spotting, uav's and arty on a timely basis I don't care. 

Personally I generally don't fight as a commander unless the server has just gone ranked and no one else has applied for commander or I'm hunting down the spec ops guy that just destroyed my assets.  I find it very difficult to provide good information and orders to my team when fighting constantly.  I do know some who can do it.

Yeah you are right.  It's not a violation of ROE.  I was just making the point that there is already a method for the team to get rid of shitty commanders, it shouldn't even be an admin's job.  I mean seriously, if the team doesn't complain, then the admin has no right to kick.  The no commander in vehicles rule is there so that teams don't get the shaft while a commander doesn't command.  Ultimately, I'd have to say it's up to the team, not the admin.

IMO... when I command I am usually engy.  I get in a smaller vehicle (buggy, jeep) in the event an asset is destroyed I can roll next to it and fix it faster and not have to waste the supply crate fot repairs (and also not supply the spec op still lurking to finish the job).  Also, it has a MG, which is helpful for defending yourself when spec op is on your base.  And that's usually the only time I leave the command screen when I am commander is to go repair something, or to kill whoever is taking out my assets.

Commanders definitely SHOULD NOT be in a plane or attack copter.  There is no way they can be providing the support the team needs from those vehicles.  Sitting in a transport copter, is ok, but I hesitate to do that because I consider it an important resource (a lot faster for spec op to get to enemy resources than walking).

silo1180 wrote:

IMO... when I command I am usually engy.  I get in a smaller vehicle (buggy, jeep) in the event an asset is destroyed I can roll next to it and fix it faster and not have to waste the supply crate fot repairs (and also not supply the spec op still lurking to finish the job).  Also, it has a MG, which is helpful for defending yourself when spec op is on your base.  And that's usually the only time I leave the command screen when I am commander is to go repair something, or to kill whoever is taking out my assets.

do it basically every single time i command. you don't even have to leave the commander screen once you pull up. ive often drove to repair the stuff and came out of the command screen to see a teammate or two waiting for the vehicle. so i jump out give it to em, and go back to commanding.

holy fuck. i just seen that the polls have been mostly "No". you gotta be fucking kidding me.

Last edited by CTD-CaptainBuck (2007-01-11 13:27:40)

Null vote, I can't decide. I mean, if nobody's using it, there's no real harm, is there?

But what if someone wants it? If they need to get back to the fight ASAP and you have to come out the commander screen and dismount so they can take it, and in doing so hit supplies or vehicle or arty or scan just too late to turn the round?
What if being TKed for it does that?

It's like the old dilemma in cartoons, when the hero had the villain dangling from a cliff, but his heroic instinct had him holding the villain up there. Be merciful and let the dude up, knowing damn well he'll continue to do evil even though he's swearing blind on his mother's immortal soul he'll be good, or do you just let go, then amble off to the bottom of the cliff to put a double-tap through his head, or stick the sword in him a few times
(This was, however, much easier to answer when I was 8: 'Drop the bastard! He won't change, he's the Bad Guy! No, don't pull him up you moron!')

As a commander myself I have to say NO.  The commander must stay alive all the time he can, because being dead he is not doing his job.  And in a vehicle he isn't in the safest place of the game.  So, I say he should be in a safe place defending a flag, and watching his screen and giving commands all the time.  If you wanna see more action play as squad member.

RoE for the server?

Follow the RoE to how you would believe that the admins would want the rules followed.  Don't try to debate their own rules against them, and attempt to "lawyer" your way out by nitpicking their rules.

My personal opinion?

Depends upon many factors.

For example, I played commander a couple of nights ago on Warlord, and I sat in the main base the majority of the time in our APC.  My reasoning for sitting in the APC was quite simple:  No one on my team was grabbing it, and the enemy had made two failed attempts to steal it.  However, the APC on that map is a very important piece of equipment for the team, and ideally it should be in another player's hands that can fully concentrate upon using it's full potential.

Hence the reason that I offered it a couple of times via in-game chat, or through VOIP, before it was FINALLY taken from me by almost the end of the round.

Honestly, commanders should use their best judgement when using vehicles while commanding.  I don't care how awesome you are as a pilot and commander, a commander shouldn't be using jets or choppers while commanding.  Armor is iffy, and largely dependent upon whether or not it'll be better in another teammate's hands (or out of the enemy's hands).  Anything else is kinda up in the air, and is dependent upon the circumstances, but is probably alright.

The command position is a very important position in game, and the goal is to win for your team (and thus earn your double points).  Sometimes that means that you have to sacrifice satisfying your desire to fly in the jet, or roll around in the armor.

lol see the only thing BFROE does, makes people argue about stupid stuff like this.

if its needed, give it up.... if it has been sat there doing nowt, take it, same with TOW/mounted mg etc, may aswell get the hours in if you can.
What affects your team more is lamers staying dead waiting for the opportunity to swap to the other team, and when its almost 1/2 your team doing that, as is often the case (load of ltnts waiting to join the team of 4 stars and cnls); that's when it hinders your teams performance.
If you are in a jeep so what? if someone else wants one they only have to request a vehicle drop.
Commander in a tank/APC yeah I can see that as being out of order.

"So as far as I'm capable of understanding, the KEY word there is "HINDER"! Which by what i have always understood is that you can basically do WHATEVER you want if people dont complain."

lets try and put that princip into another situation..

driving across a red light is illegal. and if nobody is there (to see it or complain), but you - it's STILL illegal.

Des.Kmal wrote:

<<<FTDM>>>Gen.Raven wrote:

ok if its a jeep or a tank but not a jet or heli

The only map where this is not fine is R T Jalalabad.  The tanks are the only armour, there are only 3 at most, and without 1, your team goes down the drain.  Once a commander sat in a tank, and let us get spawn camped by several Jeeps and two tanks at the same time.  What a mess.