BF2S Forums How Marines Feel about their Gear

Spearhead wrote:

Thanks a bunch for the post, Stingray, really cool stuff you found there.

Can anyone find out why they abandoned the M8 project?  If they don't like the M16, don't you think they should be looking for replacements as fast as possible?  I mean, heck, if it's less popular than the M14, I think they've got a serious problem.....

they have already found a replacement,
it's in the firl adjustment phase at the moment and it's called the OICW.

it's scheduled to be issued to every 6th soldier in 2008 and then an increase in number as soon as the produktion get's going properly.

but of course it could be on standby since the gun part of it is mainly the XM8, and it says on this website http://world.guns.ru/assault/as40-e.htm that is has been shelved for some further development later.

motherdear wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Thanks a bunch for the post, Stingray, really cool stuff you found there.

Can anyone find out why they abandoned the M8 project?  If they don't like the M16, don't you think they should be looking for replacements as fast as possible?  I mean, heck, if it's less popular than the M14, I think they've got a serious problem.....

they have already found a replacement,
it's in the firl adjustment phase at the moment and it's called the OICW.

it's scheduled to be issued to every 6th soldier in 2008 and then an increase in number as soon as the produktion get's going properly.

but of course it could be on standby since the gun part of it is mainly the XM8, and it says on this website http://world.guns.ru/assault/as40-e.htm that is has been shelved for some further development later.

OICW has been in devlopment since I joined the Marines in 1998, its major problem is that it weighs around 20lbs!!

SgtHeihn wrote:

No, the standard rifle for the Marines Corps is the M16A4, the US Army is the same, but they issue more M4s to their troops. Its funny how people are saying the M16 family is old.... The AK family of weapons came out in the Early 50's, the AK-47 was replaced by the AKM and the AKM was replaced by the AK-74 and now??? The M-16's max effective range is 550m on a point target, The AK is only 300m. I'm sick of hearing people quote the M-16 jams, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I had a M16-A4 that I fired a bad round out of that blew the mag out, and bent the ejector well out of wack(i.e. 90degree angle), it went to the armory for 2 days and I took it to the range and was shooting 1in groups with it(yes I had a ACOG). If you clean the M-16 its a great fucking weapon, if you don't....
its your ass Mr. Postman. The same goes for any weapon. We found AK-47s in Iraq that were so fouled up they wouldn't shoot!!! The only weapon I found in Iraq that would shoot with no cleaning, caked with sand, and bad rounds, was a German Mauser K-98(bolt action) with Nazi markings on it from 1943.

Edit: Yes the AK is fun, full auto is a blast but you can't hit shit!!

The soldier theirselves are complaining about their rifle , is not me....
Yes the AK family is older than the M16 family , but it is very various ... nowadays exists rifles such as AK-47 , AK - 74 , AK-101 , AK-102 , AK-103 and many others.... they are all similar , and differ in cal and fire mechanism , fundamentally.

The real problem of the M16 is their reliability in combat.... they jam easily in sandy enviroiments... i mean : iraq and afghanistan are some big deserts , so....

Besides this , ak is far more accurate also in the real world , when fired at short controlled bursts....

SgtHeihn wrote:

If you have ever been in the military you shouls know that you should clean your weapon everyday, you don't need to strip it down, just pull the bolt out brush it off and put some CLP on it and slap it back in, take less than a minute to do. The 7.62x39mm round that the AK shoots is not much better than the 5.56mm, the 7.62x51mm is better than both, just kicks like a mule and weighs more per mag. I had 5.56mm match grade in Iraq and they never had any problem putting a man down, the standard 5.56mm has a steel pentrator that only works well versus body armor, the AK is a good weapon, I will admit, but simple comes at a cost... poor accuracy, the mag is a pain to slap in quickly and you don't have a quick attach/detach for optics.
Edit:me in Iraq with a M-16A4, never had it jam, also the only M-16 variation people bitched about was the M-4, we didn't have enough!! The M-16A4 was loved by my unit 3rd BN 5th Marines, a Infantry unit.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/ … 951fc9.jpg

No some 5.56mm have steel penetration, correct me if im wrong but this is called a full metal jacket bullet. Then there is a hollowpoint round. Other then what ive seen happening in the balkans (1st hand) and firing a few guns. I wouldn't say I have that much experience in (firing the weapons etc) However I can easily compare calibers, bullet speeds etc. Not as much as a person who has done 3 weeks weapon familiarization but enough to know how to load, change firing modes, aim, shoot, safety a weapon. I also have done a small small course in medicine treating bleeding, treating for shock etc I do know what effects bullets have on people. In the balkan war some used the Thompson just because they had FMJ bullets that could be used in it, this was because of the body armour on some officers.

If you are a terrorist group chances are you will never use optics. I hope that Ak-47's aren't the only Kaleshnikov's in the market like said before accuracy doesn't mean shit if you are in close range. One of the people I knew suffered multiple bullet wounds from a low caliber automatic rifle he lived now we call him zvaka (chewing gum) he was literally full of holes and survived because the bullets weren't a high enough caliber to do internal damage. This was also done at a close to point blank range. I was fighting for Kaleshnikov all together but lets just ignore the fact that the AK-47 is the most widespread widely used weapon and it has also killed more people then any other weapon ever invented (unless you want to count bullets ) It has a good track record, the M16 I cant say much about you can claim you are a military officer (i dont beleive or dis beleive you) but the guns track record speaks for itself. Even current marines are saying its shit tell me why I should listen to you and I just might. Better be a bloody good reason.

Last edited by spray_and_pray (2007-01-28 05:35:01)

Full metal jacket is a standard round for all calibers, Its called the ball round. The AK-47 was made by the millions. The Soviets threw them at any group saying that they hated the US.

Also I didn't claim to be a Marine Officer, I was a NCO, a Sergant. I spent 8yrs in the Corps.
My MOS was 0311 infantry, 8513 combat instructor, and 8531 Range Coach.
I served with 3rd BN 4th Marines, School of Infantry(west Coast) and 3rd BN 5th Marines.

Also we need to stop. We will go back and forth about which is better, AK or M-16. We have weapons that we both swear by and their is nothing that we can say to change that.

Kukulcan wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

Kukulcan wrote:

I think that the United States should refresh their gear.... i mean : the M16 is REALLY old. Ok now it's version A2 , but basically is the same rifle.

It had problem of jamming already during the vietnam war and it keeps jamming...

USA should change their weaponary if they want to stand a chance on the next century battlefields , especially compared to the new age weaponary of nations like china.

They are developing interesting new weapons , however.

Dont seem to know too much about US weaponry so Ill fill you in.

1. It is now up to model A4 not A2.
2. The reason it jammed during the first years of Vietnam was because it was labeled as "the rifle that never needed cleaning" so no cleaning kits were issued. Once cleaning kits were issued the problem of guns jamming virtually disappeared.
3. The M16A2/A3/A4 models are all more accurate the most other assault rifles in the world.
4. I would take one of the M16 models over the Type what ever rifle that is pretty much a redesignated AK47 which is used by the large majority of the PLA, PLAN, PLAAF and other branches of there military and government security forces.


Just another tip, dont take things from a video game as if they are facts.

The Type-56 (chinese ak copy )and Type 81 ( modified ak 47 ) , are not very used nowadays in the PLA. They developed all new series of next generation weaponary as the type 95 , whic is rapidly substituting the older type 81.

I mean : those thing AREN'T just stone-throwers , no? It's a common place ( as we say in italy ) saying ''China military uses locally produced versions of russian weaponary''.... that's not true nowadays.
In every branch they are devoloping new locally ideated weapons..... and they work great.

One more thing , i don't take thing from videogames.... the more used versions of M16 are still the A2 and the A3...

A3 is hardly used at all, only a few thousand were produced, and while Im not positive  the numbers of A2 vs A4 are almost equal if not equal.

Last I heard AK47 models were the most common, but that was about a year ago so I dont know.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

a3 is not used by conventional forces. period.

Some special forces units use it I think.

spray_and_pray wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

No, the standard rifle for the Marines Corps is the M16A4, the US Army is the same, but they issue more M4s to their troops. Its funny how people are saying the M16 family is old.... The AK family of weapons came out in the Early 50's, the AK-47 was replaced by the AKM and the AKM was replaced by the AK-74 and now??? The M-16's max effective range is 550m on a point target, The AK is only 300m. I'm sick of hearing people quote the M-16 jams, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I had a M16-A4 that I fired a bad round out of that blew the mag out, and bent the ejector well out of wack(i.e. 90degree angle), it went to the armory for 2 days and I took it to the range and was shooting 1in groups with it(yes I had a ACOG). If you clean the M-16 its a great fucking weapon, if you don't....
its your ass Mr. Postman. The same goes for any weapon. We found AK-47s in Iraq that were so fouled up they wouldn't shoot!!! The only weapon I found in Iraq that would shoot with no cleaning, caked with sand, and bad rounds, was a German Mauser K-98(bolt action) with Nazi markings on it from 1943.

Edit: Yes the AK is fun, full auto is a blast but you can't hit shit!!

An AK will fire with mud/dirt/water in it, probably you guys were using the release version from 47 or from around that time. In the Vietnam war the US troops would often swap the M16 for an AK-47. The only problem with this is when they shot a high ranking officer not much suspicion was raised because of the sound of the weapon and the bullet lodged in the guys head. The vietnam war is known very good for the amount of friendly fire they got there.

ahem........NO RIFLE IN THE WORLD WILL FIRE WITHOUT BEING PROPERLY MAINTAINED.  if you stick an Ak into a sloppy puddle of mud, all your gonna hear is click clak....the sound of being embarrassed.  I have yet to see proof to that stupid adage.  the AK is user friendly, ill give you that.  but ill take my M16 ANY FRIGGING DAY over the kalishnikov family.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

a3 is not used by conventional forces. period.

Some special forces units use it I think.

im sure of that.  but special operations are not cinsidered conventional forces

Missed that sorry.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i cant speak for things that I havent held and fired or seen in action in person.  was it fucking dropped and soaked in the mud or was in a sterile observed environment?

I too would like a link.

spray_and_pray wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

spray_and_pray wrote:

An AK will fire with mud/dirt/water in it, probably you guys were using the release version from 47 or from around that time. In the Vietnam war the US troops would often swap the M16 for an AK-47. The only problem with this is when they shot a high ranking officer not much suspicion was raised because of the sound of the weapon and the bullet lodged in the guys head. The vietnam war is known very good for the amount of friendly fire they got there.

ahem........NO RIFLE IN THE WORLD WILL FIRE WITHOUT BEING PROPERLY MAINTAINED.  if you stick an Ak into a sloppy puddle of mud, all your gonna hear is click clak....the sound of being embarrassed.  I have yet to see proof to that stupid adage.  the AK is user friendly, ill give you that.  but ill take my M16 ANY FRIGGING DAY over the kalishnikov family.

A version of the G36* has been fired 24000 times without being cleaned. So lets say 1 rifle in the world will fire without being properly maintained. Hopefully we can add to the list.

Umm, so that was in a real-world environment, right? No. But good try man.

Commie Killer wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

Some special forces units use it I think.

im sure of that.  but special operations are not cinsidered conventional forces

Missed that sorry.

The M16A3 has a removable carrying handle and the standard hand guards off the A2. I have only seen a couple of them, they are not in widespread service

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

spray_and_pray wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

ahem........NO RIFLE IN THE WORLD WILL FIRE WITHOUT BEING PROPERLY MAINTAINED.  if you stick an Ak into a sloppy puddle of mud, all your gonna hear is click clak....the sound of being embarrassed.  I have yet to see proof to that stupid adage.  the AK is user friendly, ill give you that.  but ill take my M16 ANY FRIGGING DAY over the kalishnikov family.

A version of the G36* has been fired 24000 times without being cleaned. So lets say 1 rifle in the world will fire without being properly maintained. Hopefully we can add to the list.

Umm, so that was in a real-world environment, right? No. But good try man.

Yes it was in the real world im sure spray would give links but it came up in another discussion. /fail