I think the Neo Cons just learnt a new word... All I've heard from them on here in the past week or so is Neville Chamberlain.
No spin. Will you admit Iran was in the complete wrong from the beginning though? Will you admit that Iran captured these men through the use of violence that was completely and knowingly unwarranted? And will you then please elaborate to me why you embrace this behavior? I claim it is embraced because it is evident that this would not be the first time and probably not the last time, though that is speculation on my part, that Iran goes around taking hostages. No matter how the U.S. has handled this war or how the world perceives Britain's involvement in it, no nation should allow another nation to unlawfuly detain its countrymen through means of force. Also, as you stated in another post some liberal comment about how diplomacy wins over idiotic warmongering advocates of infiltration, if someone captured your daughter or sister/brother and were threatening to kill her (like the Iranins did. Trial which may lead to death penalty) would you sit around so calm and collectively like you did during this crisis. Would you be able to go to work and write on video game forums or would you be distrought and passionate about doing whatever necessary to get her back safe? Remember, those Sailors and Marines were somebody's sons/husband/ brother etc.CameronPoe wrote:
Yeah - that tactic really worked well when Israel tried to get their men back from Hezbollah. lol. This particular diplomatic solution is no skin off Britain's nose: they get their men back - I'd like to see how the rest of the forum are gonna spin this to show it up as a defeat or to highlight the drawbacks of the whole thing.crimson_grunt wrote:
Am waiting for the string of post saying we appeased him and should have sent bombs already.
Never a more true statement posted on these boards.UON wrote:
The real threat is another world war. The way that will be achieved is through mass brainwashing of people into believing that the atrocities of their governments are in their best interests.
Yes, of course, I have been BRAIN WASHED into hating and wanting to stand up to terrorism and the people that commit it. How in the world did I let Bush get into my heag with such non-sense.JahManRed wrote:
Never a more true statement posted on these boards.UON wrote:
The real threat is another world war. The way that will be achieved is through mass brainwashing of people into believing that the atrocities of their governments are in their best interests.
Skootch over, I need a place in the sand to bury my head, I am through listening to the worms digging into my brain
"We can't win anyway so why fight, all that will do make them more pissed". How many times do we have to listen to such bullshit??
Not you. You don't need brainwashing.lowing wrote:
Yes, of course, I have been BRAIN WASHED into hating and wanting to stand up to terrorism and the people that commit it. How in the world did I let Bush get into my heag with such non-sense.JahManRed wrote:
Never a more true statement posted on these boards.UON wrote:
The real threat is another world war. The way that will be achieved is through mass brainwashing of people into believing that the atrocities of their governments are in their best interests.
lol +1 & +1 again for the craic..Bertster7 wrote:
Not you. You don't need brainwashing.lowing wrote:
Yes, of course, I have been BRAIN WASHED into hating and wanting to stand up to terrorism and the people that commit it. How in the world did I let Bush get into my heag with such non-sense.JahManRed wrote:
Never a more true statement posted on these boards.
My views runs more like "we can win against terrorism by other means, however trigger happy airstrikes and the support of brutal police states is just going to make the problem worse".lowing wrote:
"We can't win anyway so why fight, all that will do make them more pissed". How many times do we have to listen to such bullshit??
To answer your question: You'll have to listen to your version however many times as you twist reasonable and well thought out standpoints into declarations of defeatism. I imagine that would be everytime someone suggests a course of action which isn't reactionary, violent or short sighted.
That's it. I'm convinced beyond a doubt that Anti-American debaters are in bed with the enemy. Furthermore, you should now be considered the enemy as well. Fiight extremism with anger management classes? Seems that you all think the only way to combat terrorist is to provide a peachy, rose-filled enviroment were all the jihadis will abandon there fight against the west. Bunch of bullshit.
I'm now an enemy of the state? I couldn't help but smile. Don't worry, I'll save a space against the wall for you when the revolution comesrawls2 wrote:
That's it. I'm convinced beyond a doubt that Anti-American debaters are in bed with the enemy. Furthermore, you should now be considered the enemy as well. Fiight extremism with anger management classes? Seems that you all think the only way to combat terrorist is to provide a peachy, rose-filled enviroment were all the jihadis will abandon there fight against the west. Bunch of bullshit.
Ok, as you seem not to be getting the point. The Republican way is apparently to give the terrorists free guns in exchange for hostages. The Liberal way is to get the hostages back without giving them guns.lowing wrote:
Yup, appeasement, surrender, negotiate, retreat...........all against terrorists and criminals, I absolutely love the liberal playbook.PureFodder wrote:
Damn us liberals and our crazy ideas about talking to people to resolve issues rather than throwing bombs around and making things worse. We should have resolved this the Repiblican way. That way Iran would have some nice shiny new free weapons next time they wanted to break international laws.
Republicans; selective memory FTW!
Which is better?
You don't get it at all.rawls2 wrote:
That's it. I'm convinced beyond a doubt that Anti-American debaters are in bed with the enemy. Furthermore, you should now be considered the enemy as well. Fiight extremism with anger management classes? Seems that you all think the only way to combat terrorist is to provide a peachy, rose-filled enviroment were all the jihadis will abandon there fight against the west. Bunch of bullshit.
Short of the absolute anihillation of everyone in the Middle East a purely military campaign against terrorism cannot work, even in that scenario it is unlikely to work well and very likely to trigger a massive surge in homegrown terrorist activities against the nations responsible.
The only way to stop terrorism is to create a better standard of living for those who are resorting to terrorism, not actual terrorists, but potential terrorists.
A doctor treating a sick patient does not treat the symptoms, they treat the diesease - it's the same thing. Military action sends a message and can be beneficial in some instances (I fully support the use of military force in Afghanistan where the government were actively harbouring and openly supporting terrorists), but very few. A strong military is a powerful tool when combating terrorism, but not nearly as effective as a lot of people seem to think. It's too crude, like a surgeon trying to remove a cancerous tumour with a hammer. It is the threat of military force that prevents countries from, at least openly, supporting terrorism.
The war on terror needs to be won through intelligence and "hearts and minds".
If it were up to me there wouldn't be all this military nonsense going on, just massive investment in intelligence services and propaganda. The media hype surrounding terrorism can only be a bad thing too.
There needs to be less media fuss made about terrorism, more intelligence investment (predominantly overseas), more international intelligence agency cooperation and more positive investment in the Middle East very specifically on a level that will impact on the lives of normal people in a positive way and assassinations of terrorist leaders and recruiters based on intelligence gathered - all kept very quiet.
To all of you,
Good posts but it has been asked and asked again. I am all for a different approach to this problem. I defy anyone to give me the alternative plan laid out by the liberal leaders or any anti-Bush bone-head as to what that plan is.
Remember it is supposed to be a plan to defeat terrorism. NOT a plan to appease terrorism
You say we need to create a better life for prospective terrorists so they will not resort to such acts. WHat exactly do you think building schools roads, hospitals, power grids, communications grids etc....... is supposed to doing? What do you think helping a govt. that is not supposed to be oppressive take root in Iraq supposed to do?
SO once and for all, short of appeasement, retreat, surrender negotiate. WHAT is the liberal plan for winning the war on terrorism???
Good posts but it has been asked and asked again. I am all for a different approach to this problem. I defy anyone to give me the alternative plan laid out by the liberal leaders or any anti-Bush bone-head as to what that plan is.
Remember it is supposed to be a plan to defeat terrorism. NOT a plan to appease terrorism
You say we need to create a better life for prospective terrorists so they will not resort to such acts. WHat exactly do you think building schools roads, hospitals, power grids, communications grids etc....... is supposed to doing? What do you think helping a govt. that is not supposed to be oppressive take root in Iraq supposed to do?
SO once and for all, short of appeasement, retreat, surrender negotiate. WHAT is the liberal plan for winning the war on terrorism???
One countries terrorist is another's freedom fighter
So basically the CIA is middle easterns terorist & westerners freedom fighter
Al'qaeda is Westerners terrorist but middle easterns freedom fighter
its like a football match, go reds go reds
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
We are like one big dysfunctional family, at eachothers throats but soon as a great threat emerges, we unite. its pathetic
So basically the CIA is middle easterns terorist & westerners freedom fighter
Al'qaeda is Westerners terrorist but middle easterns freedom fighter
its like a football match, go reds go reds
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
We are like one big dysfunctional family, at eachothers throats but soon as a great threat emerges, we unite. its pathetic
Last edited by FlamingDeath (2007-04-08 15:53:41)
There is an easier solution to your misery.FlamingDeath wrote:
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
Look just because I do not AGREE with you does not mean I "didn't get it". The liberal way is to get the hostages back without PUNISHMENT. Lets get that fact straight right now!!!PureFodder wrote:
Ok, as you seem not to be getting the point. The Republican way is apparently to give the terrorists free guns in exchange for hostages. The Liberal way is to get the hostages back without giving them guns.lowing wrote:
Yup, appeasement, surrender, negotiate, retreat...........all against terrorists and criminals, I absolutely love the liberal playbook.PureFodder wrote:
Damn us liberals and our crazy ideas about talking to people to resolve issues rather than throwing bombs around and making things worse. We should have resolved this the Repiblican way. That way Iran would have some nice shiny new free weapons next time they wanted to break international laws.
Republicans; selective memory FTW!
Which is better?
What free guns are you referring to? Or are you leaning way back 30 years ago when we help the Mujaheddin beat back the Soviets?
Jet Blast if ur suggesting i top myself, im not that weak.
unlike ur mind
unlike ur mind
Last edited by FlamingDeath (2007-04-08 15:55:05)
Please list the names of people, that history has judged as "freedom fighters", where their only tactic was to target and blow up women and childern to make sure they do not enjoy the quality of life that others are fighting for them to enjoy.FlamingDeath wrote:
One countries terrorist is another's freedom fighter
So basically the CIA is middle easterns terorist & westerners freedom fighter
Al'qaeda is Westerners terrorist but middle easterns freedom fighter
its like a football match, go reds go reds
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
We are like one big dysfunctional family, at eachothers throats but soon as a great threat emerges, we unite. its pathetic
You missed the symbolism of my post, wake upJet Blast wrote:
There is an easier solution to your misery.FlamingDeath wrote:
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
OhFlamingDeath wrote:
You missed the symbolism of my post, wake upJet Blast wrote:
There is an easier solution to your misery.FlamingDeath wrote:
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
the SAS, not for enjoyment, but for pro british rulers in foriegn landslowing wrote:
Please list the names of people, that history has judged as "freedom fighters", where their only tactic was to target and blow up women and childern to make sure they do not enjoy the quality of life that others are fighting for them to enjoy.FlamingDeath wrote:
One countries terrorist is another's freedom fighter
So basically the CIA is middle easterns terorist & westerners freedom fighter
Al'qaeda is Westerners terrorist but middle easterns freedom fighter
its like a football match, go reds go reds
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
We are like one big dysfunctional family, at eachothers throats but soon as a great threat emerges, we unite. its pathetic
but more recently, the US in Iraq, go look at the iraqs veterans against the war
go read about the history of the place that we live in
Last edited by FlamingDeath (2007-04-08 16:00:43)
Menachem Begin.lowing wrote:
Please list the names of people, that history has judged as "freedom fighters", where their only tactic was to target and blow up women and childern to make sure they do not enjoy the quality of life that others are fighting for them to enjoy.FlamingDeath wrote:
One countries terrorist is another's freedom fighter
So basically the CIA is middle easterns terorist & westerners freedom fighter
Al'qaeda is Westerners terrorist but middle easterns freedom fighter
its like a football match, go reds go reds
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
We are like one big dysfunctional family, at eachothers throats but soon as a great threat emerges, we unite. its pathetic
Ummmmmmmm what about the SAS, what about the Iraq veterans who are against the war??FlamingDeath wrote:
the SAS, not for enjoyment, but for pro british rulers in foriegn landslowing wrote:
Please list the names of people, that history has judged as "freedom fighters", where their only tactic was to target and blow up women and childern to make sure they do not enjoy the quality of life that others are fighting for them to enjoy.FlamingDeath wrote:
One countries terrorist is another's freedom fighter
So basically the CIA is middle easterns terorist & westerners freedom fighter
Al'qaeda is Westerners terrorist but middle easterns freedom fighter
its like a football match, go reds go reds
its pathetic and i cant wait for a massive rock to come and smash into this other rock we live on.... fools
We are like one big dysfunctional family, at eachothers throats but soon as a great threat emerges, we unite. its pathetic
but more recently, the US in Iraq, go look at the iraqs veterans against the war
go read about the history of the place that we live in
Are you saying these groups Sole mission was to go out, find women and children and kill them???
I have read our history, I am asking you to back up your comments with some examples. Do not expect me to do it for you.
Now, once again..............Name people that targeted women and children for death, that have the label as freedom fighter.
By the way since you tell me to educate myself on our history let me shed some light as how I feel about our history.
I can not and will not defend American action during the Indian Wars, I can not and will defend American treatment against minorities pre-civil-rights movement.
Our history is full of hypocrasy I admit that. The one thing about America that I will defend is this:
Our country everyday tries to right the wrongs of our past, we own up to them and we fix them.
Even our own history books do not call Custer a "freedom fighter".
So having said all of this...............................START NAMING!!!
I like how POE thinks that diplomacy has never been tried before... In all reality, diplomacy is used first, then action is taken. It's good to know though that you think it's something big and now you can be proud of yourself.
How is what I've suggested terrorist appeasement? It is improving the quality of life for potential terrorists, true, but this is how you make people like you - you give them stuff. Not meaningless stuff that benefits the government, actual stuff that will please people. That's just one side though, there also has to be a concerted effort to track down and eliminate all those who glamourise terrorism or incite hatred in the way so many do today, but that should all be done very quietly and denied. You need your propaganda to be the only propaganda they hear.lowing wrote:
To all of you,
Good posts but it has been asked and asked again. I am all for a different approach to this problem. I defy anyone to give me the alternative plan laid out by the liberal leaders or any anti-Bush bone-head as to what that plan is.
Remember it is supposed to be a plan to defeat terrorism. NOT a plan to appease terrorism
You say we need to create a better life for prospective terrorists so they will not resort to such acts. WHat exactly do you think building schools roads, hospitals, power grids, communications grids etc....... is supposed to doing? What do you think helping a govt. that is not supposed to be oppressive take root in Iraq supposed to do?
SO once and for all, short of appeasement, retreat, surrender negotiate. WHAT is the liberal plan for winning the war on terrorism???
So basically, all smiles and niceness on the outside, whilst silencing all opposition ruthlessly - it works for African dictators. It's not the nicest or most noble way to tackle the problem, but I reckon it's work better than the current debacle.
Jess Macbethlowing wrote:
Ummmmmmmm what about the SAS, what about the Iraq veterans who are against the war??FlamingDeath wrote:
the SAS, not for enjoyment, but for pro british rulers in foriegn landslowing wrote:
Please list the names of people, that history has judged as "freedom fighters", where their only tactic was to target and blow up women and childern to make sure they do not enjoy the quality of life that others are fighting for them to enjoy.
but more recently, the US in Iraq, go look at the iraqs veterans against the war
go read about the history of the place that we live in
Are you saying these groups Sole mission was to go out, find women and children and kill them???
I have read our history, I am asking you to back up your comments with some examples. Do not expect me to do it for you.
Now, once again..............Name people that targeted women and children for death, that have the label as freedom fighter.
By the way since you tell me to educate myself on our history let me shed some light as how I feel about our history.
I can not and will not defend American action during the Indian Wars, I can not and will defend American treatment against minorities pre-civil-rights movement.
Our history is full of hypocrasy I admit that. The one thing about America that I will defend is this:
Our country everyday tries to right the wrongs of our past, we own up to them and we fix them.
Even our own history books do not call Custer a "freedom fighter".
So having said all of this...............................START NAMING!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 2549547050
Operation Iraqi freedom actually meant Operation Iraqi slaughter
Last edited by FlamingDeath (2007-04-08 16:24:32)