WTF? I can't stop laughing at you.FlamingDeath wrote:
I give up trying to communicate with these bigots
Please show me where his military operations were soley the destruction of civilian women and children. Try if you can, to not include those women and children that were killed while the enemy of Israel was hiding behind them as they used them for human shields................Good luck!!Bertster7 wrote:
I already have.lowing wrote:
So having said all of this...............................START NAMING!!!
Menachem Begin. There are many more, but he is a shining example.
The intricacies would be complicated, it's only a basic framework.lowing wrote:
Hmmmmm, ok I am still waiting for a plan! If power grids, communications, water treatment schools etc. is stuff they can see!! It goes well beyond what they hear..Bertster7 wrote:
How is what I've suggested terrorist appeasement? It is improving the quality of life for potential terrorists, true, but this is how you make people like you - you give them stuff. Not meaningless stuff that benefits the government, actual stuff that will please people. That's just one side though, there also has to be a concerted effort to track down and eliminate all those who glamourise terrorism or incite hatred in the way so many do today, but that should all be done very quietly and denied. You need your propaganda to be the only propaganda they hear.lowing wrote:
To all of you,
Good posts but it has been asked and asked again. I am all for a different approach to this problem. I defy anyone to give me the alternative plan laid out by the liberal leaders or any anti-Bush bone-head as to what that plan is.
Remember it is supposed to be a plan to defeat terrorism. NOT a plan to appease terrorism
You say we need to create a better life for prospective terrorists so they will not resort to such acts. WHat exactly do you think building schools roads, hospitals, power grids, communications grids etc....... is supposed to doing? What do you think helping a govt. that is not supposed to be oppressive take root in Iraq supposed to do?
SO once and for all, short of appeasement, retreat, surrender negotiate. WHAT is the liberal plan for winning the war on terrorism???
So basically, all smiles and niceness on the outside, whilst silencing all opposition ruthlessly - it works for African dictators. It's not the nicest or most noble way to tackle the problem, but I reckon it's work better than the current debacle.
An example of something that might work well to win round the people could be a scholarship deal, whereby students from the Middle East could get access to education in Western countries - this would not only create an improvement in attitudes towards the west and instill western cultural values in the students, but would also remove some of the most likely recruits for terrorists from an environment where they may turn to terrorism.
WTF? I cant stop crying at youJet Blast wrote:
WTF? I can't stop laughing at you.FlamingDeath wrote:
I give up trying to communicate with these bigots
Who's talking about military action? I'm talking about proper terrorist bombings by Irgun.lowing wrote:
Please show me where his military operations were soley the destruction of civilian women and children. Try if you can, to not include those women and children that were killed while the enemy of Israel was hiding behind them as they used them for human shields................Good luck!!Bertster7 wrote:
I already have.lowing wrote:
So having said all of this...............................START NAMING!!!
Menachem Begin. There are many more, but he is a shining example.
The best known of Begin's terror strikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing
Gee I think stuff like this exists, except everyone who is educated or wants to be has already been murdered by the terrorists or has already fled the country.Bertster7 wrote:
The intricacies would be complicated, it's only a basic framework.lowing wrote:
Hmmmmm, ok I am still waiting for a plan! If power grids, communications, water treatment schools etc. is stuff they can see!! It goes well beyond what they hear..Bertster7 wrote:
How is what I've suggested terrorist appeasement? It is improving the quality of life for potential terrorists, true, but this is how you make people like you - you give them stuff. Not meaningless stuff that benefits the government, actual stuff that will please people. That's just one side though, there also has to be a concerted effort to track down and eliminate all those who glamourise terrorism or incite hatred in the way so many do today, but that should all be done very quietly and denied. You need your propaganda to be the only propaganda they hear.
So basically, all smiles and niceness on the outside, whilst silencing all opposition ruthlessly - it works for African dictators. It's not the nicest or most noble way to tackle the problem, but I reckon it's work better than the current debacle.
An example of something that might work well to win round the people could be a scholarship deal, whereby students from the Middle East could get access to education in Western countries - this would not only create an improvement in attitudes towards the west and instill western cultural values in the students, but would also remove some of the most likely recruits for terrorists from an environment where they may turn to terrorism.
I still find it hard to believe that Brits were captured by the Iranian Navy. I know it wasn't expected but just looking back through history and remembering how powerful the British have been on the water I can't help but think in my mind WTF.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
excellent post...........but I looked all over and did not find the label of "freedom fighter" any where to discribe his actionsBertster7 wrote:
Who's talking about military action? I'm talking about proper terrorist bombings by Irgun.lowing wrote:
Please show me where his military operations were soley the destruction of civilian women and children. Try if you can, to not include those women and children that were killed while the enemy of Israel was hiding behind them as they used them for human shields................Good luck!!Bertster7 wrote:
I already have.
Menachem Begin. There are many more, but he is a shining example.
The best known of Begin's terror strikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing
Ok. How does us pointing out to you that the vid you posted is false, since the guy in the vid was never a Ranger, or in Iraq make us a bigot?FlamingDeath wrote:
WTF? I cant stop crying at youJet Blast wrote:
WTF? I can't stop laughing at you.FlamingDeath wrote:
I give up trying to communicate with these bigots
Not on a big enough scale. There are many, many students in the Middle East who would jump at the chance of a free (or very cheap) western education. At uni I had several guys from the Middle East on many of my courses. The demand is certainly there.lowing wrote:
Gee I think stuff like this exists, except everyone who is educated or wants to be has already been murdered by the terrorists or has already fled the country.Bertster7 wrote:
The intricacies would be complicated, it's only a basic framework.lowing wrote:
Hmmmmm, ok I am still waiting for a plan! If power grids, communications, water treatment schools etc. is stuff they can see!! It goes well beyond what they hear..
An example of something that might work well to win round the people could be a scholarship deal, whereby students from the Middle East could get access to education in Western countries - this would not only create an improvement in attitudes towards the west and instill western cultural values in the students, but would also remove some of the most likely recruits for terrorists from an environment where they may turn to terrorism.
Read some Israeli written stuff about him. He is considered a freedom fighter, in much the same way that Sharon and Ben Gurion were - which is what led to his election.lowing wrote:
excellent post...........but I looked all over and did not find the label of "freedom fighter" any where to discribe his actionsBertster7 wrote:
Who's talking about military action? I'm talking about proper terrorist bombings by Irgun.lowing wrote:
Please show me where his military operations were soley the destruction of civilian women and children. Try if you can, to not include those women and children that were killed while the enemy of Israel was hiding behind them as they used them for human shields................Good luck!!
The best known of Begin's terror strikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing
Our schools are full of Middle Eastern students, and yet we still fight terrorism......any other plans??Bertster7 wrote:
Not on a big enough scale. There are many, many students in the Middle East who would jump at the chance of a free (or very cheap) western education. At uni I had several guys from the Middle East on many of my courses. The demand is certainly there.lowing wrote:
Gee I think stuff like this exists, except everyone who is educated or wants to be has already been murdered by the terrorists or has already fled the country.Bertster7 wrote:
The intricacies would be complicated, it's only a basic framework.
An example of something that might work well to win round the people could be a scholarship deal, whereby students from the Middle East could get access to education in Western countries - this would not only create an improvement in attitudes towards the west and instill western cultural values in the students, but would also remove some of the most likely recruits for terrorists from an environment where they may turn to terrorism.
C'mon Bertster, if I wanted to, I could find sites that paint HITLER as a freedom fighter and well know he was not......Give me sources of general history, commonly accepted by the world, that label him as a freedom fighter.Bertster7 wrote:
Read some Israeli written stuff about him. He is considered a freedom fighter, in much the same way that Sharon and Ben Gurion were - which is what led to his election.lowing wrote:
excellent post...........but I looked all over and did not find the label of "freedom fighter" any where to discribe his actionsBertster7 wrote:
Who's talking about military action? I'm talking about proper terrorist bombings by Irgun.
The best known of Begin's terror strikes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing
By the way, you make an great argument using Begin. But I do not see him as generally accepted as a freedom fighter by the world.
You're looking at it all the wrong way. These things are not complete solutions, but that does not stop them from being contributary factors for a solution. There is no quick instant win, the war is about perception and peoples preconceived notions do not change overnight (you should know all about that ).lowing wrote:
Our schools are full of Middle Eastern students, and yet we still fight terrorism......any other plans??Bertster7 wrote:
Not on a big enough scale. There are many, many students in the Middle East who would jump at the chance of a free (or very cheap) western education. At uni I had several guys from the Middle East on many of my courses. The demand is certainly there.lowing wrote:
Gee I think stuff like this exists, except everyone who is educated or wants to be has already been murdered by the terrorists or has already fled the country.
My God you have a short memory, every post i have made, you have twisted and spun its meaning trying to avoid the true point of the matter at hand between myself, you and a few others.Jet Blast wrote:
Ok. How does us pointing out to you that the vid you posted is false, since the guy in the vid was never a Ranger, or in Iraq make us a bigot?FlamingDeath wrote:
WTF? I cant stop crying at youJet Blast wrote:
WTF? I can't stop laughing at you.
Your a bigot, in denial
Why can't you just admit that vid is bullshit? It has been proven to be a lie.FlamingDeath wrote:
My God you have a short memory, every post i have made, you have twisted and spun its meaning trying to avoid the true point of the matter at hand between myself, you and a few others.Jet Blast wrote:
Ok. How does us pointing out to you that the vid you posted is false, since the guy in the vid was never a Ranger, or in Iraq make us a bigot?FlamingDeath wrote:
WTF? I cant stop crying at you
Your a bigot, in denial
Well....lowing wrote:
C'mon Bertster, if I wanted to, I could find sites that paint HITLER as a freedom fighter and well know he was not......Give me sources of general history, commonly accepted by the world, that label him as a freedom fighter.Bertster7 wrote:
Read some Israeli written stuff about him. He is considered a freedom fighter, in much the same way that Sharon and Ben Gurion were - which is what led to his election.lowing wrote:
excellent post...........but I looked all over and did not find the label of "freedom fighter" any where to discribe his actions
By the way, you make an great argument using Begin. But I do not see him as generally accepted as a freedom fighter by the world.
http://www.theamericancause.org/patterr … ghters.htm
There's even a book about him called "Menahem Begin, from freedom fighter to statesman"(ISBN:0884000516).
He also talks about himself as a freedom fighter during his Nobel prize speech in '78.
Or to get a feel of public opinion of him you could read the reviews for his book about his time as a terrorist/"freedom fighter"
im gonna explain this to you like a kid cus thats what youve proven yourself to be. anybody who has been properly indoctrinated in the military will never wear his uniform as chewed up as this jerk did. thats the smallest argument against him. but yes, ANYBODY who has joined would never set themselves up in an ate way on a fancy portrait like that. but your a kid so you cant understand that can you?FlamingDeath wrote:
again... the crucial point is missed. i will explain again in simple terms. special forces are not school children, correct, well done, u get a gold star.Kmarion wrote:
lol.. is anyone else laughing as hard as I am? Comparing highly trained special force units to school children.. Ya think the photographer might have given him a hand?...lolFlamingDeath wrote:
I'll put the analogy across that school children don't always wear their uniforms correctly, so im not sure I understand your point?
m mm mm maybe?
unforms and how they are worn is universal, its either worn correctly or it is not, this in itself does not dictate the legitimacy of those wearing the uniform. savvy?
I give up trying to communicate with these bigots
He got called and rightly busted. This of course makes me a bigot. Look at the beret. It's not a matter of oops wrong side. It a different beret all together. It amazes me how obvious shit slips by even the most challenged in this forum. No gold star for you. savvy?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
im gonna explain this to you like a kid cus thats what youve proven yourself to be. anybody who has been properly indoctrinated in the military will never wear his uniform as chewed up as this jerk did. thats the smallest argument against him. but yes, ANYBODY who has joined would never set themselves up in an ate way on a fancy portrait like that. but your a kid so you cant understand that can you?FlamingDeath wrote:
again... the crucial point is missed. i will explain again in simple terms. special forces are not school children, correct, well done, u get a gold star.Kmarion wrote:
lol.. is anyone else laughing as hard as I am? Comparing highly trained special force units to school children.. Ya think the photographer might have given him a hand?...lol
m mm mm maybe?
unforms and how they are worn is universal, its either worn correctly or it is not, this in itself does not dictate the legitimacy of those wearing the uniform. savvy?
I give up trying to communicate with these bigots
I'm not gonna derail this anymore. 99.9 percent of the rational people here know whats up with Jesse Adam Macbeth.
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-04-08 17:51:22)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I sure do know this, then explain if this is understood, why are/were the democrats bitching about failure in Iraq a month after we got there. After all solutions do not come overnight.Bertster7 wrote:
You're looking at it all the wrong way. These things are not complete solutions, but that does not stop them from being contributary factors for a solution. There is no quick instant win, the war is about perception and peoples preconceived notions do not change overnight (you should know all about that ).lowing wrote:
Our schools are full of Middle Eastern students, and yet we still fight terrorism......any other plans??Bertster7 wrote:
Not on a big enough scale. There are many, many students in the Middle East who would jump at the chance of a free (or very cheap) western education. At uni I had several guys from the Middle East on many of my courses. The demand is certainly there.
Again a very strong argument, but was his actions against purposely targeted women and children or against military or state targets, where women and children got in the cross fire. Lets remember the terrorists are strapping bombs to kids to blow up shit now.Bertster7 wrote:
Well....lowing wrote:
C'mon Bertster, if I wanted to, I could find sites that paint HITLER as a freedom fighter and well know he was not......Give me sources of general history, commonly accepted by the world, that label him as a freedom fighter.Bertster7 wrote:
Read some Israeli written stuff about him. He is considered a freedom fighter, in much the same way that Sharon and Ben Gurion were - which is what led to his election.
By the way, you make an great argument using Begin. But I do not see him as generally accepted as a freedom fighter by the world.
http://www.theamericancause.org/patterr … ghters.htm
There's even a book about him called "Menahem Begin, from freedom fighter to statesman"(ISBN:0884000516).
He also talks about himself as a freedom fighter during his Nobel prize speech in '78.
Or to get a feel of public opinion of him you could read the reviews for his book about his time as a terrorist/"freedom fighter"
I do however, bow to you meeting my challenge, and naming Begin. Good one.
That's politics.lowing wrote:
I sure do know this, then explain if this is understood, why are/were the democrats bitching about failure in Iraq a month after we got there. After all solutions do not come overnight.Bertster7 wrote:
You're looking at it all the wrong way. These things are not complete solutions, but that does not stop them from being contributary factors for a solution. There is no quick instant win, the war is about perception and peoples preconceived notions do not change overnight (you should know all about that ).lowing wrote:
Our schools are full of Middle Eastern students, and yet we still fight terrorism......any other plans??
Bitch about your opponents mistakes.
Probably because the republicans were already heralding victory? Esspecially since they had assured congress they would be "greeted as liberators". If my buddy says "Trust me, this is a great investment," I'm going to bitch when I lose my money.lowing wrote:
I sure do know this, then explain if this is understood, why are/were the democrats bitching about failure in Iraq a month after we got there. After all solutions do not come overnight.Bertster7 wrote:
You're looking at it all the wrong way. These things are not complete solutions, but that does not stop them from being contributary factors for a solution. There is no quick instant win, the war is about perception and peoples preconceived notions do not change overnight (you should know all about that ).lowing wrote:
Our schools are full of Middle Eastern students, and yet we still fight terrorism......any other plans??
The organisation under Begin were certainly responsible for attacks against civilians. I could go and find some lists if you really want. There were a massive number of terror strikes conducted against Arab civilian targets, such as bombs in marketplaces etc.lowing wrote:
Again a very strong argument, but was his actions against purposely targeted women and children or against military or state targets, where women and children got in the cross fire. Lets remember the terrorists are strapping bombs to kids to blow up shit now.Bertster7 wrote:
Well....lowing wrote:
C'mon Bertster, if I wanted to, I could find sites that paint HITLER as a freedom fighter and well know he was not......Give me sources of general history, commonly accepted by the world, that label him as a freedom fighter.
By the way, you make an great argument using Begin. But I do not see him as generally accepted as a freedom fighter by the world.
http://www.theamericancause.org/patterr … ghters.htm
There's even a book about him called "Menahem Begin, from freedom fighter to statesman"(ISBN:0884000516).
He also talks about himself as a freedom fighter during his Nobel prize speech in '78.
Or to get a feel of public opinion of him you could read the reviews for his book about his time as a terrorist/"freedom fighter"
I do however, bow to you meeting my challenge, and naming Begin. Good one.
What about the amount of secretarian violence we see? Did he do any Jew on Jew stuff? (Honest question)Bertster7 wrote:
The organisation under Begin were certainly responsible for attacks against civilians. I could go and find some lists if you really want. There were a massive number of terror strikes conducted against Arab civilian targets, such as bombs in marketplaces etc.lowing wrote:
Again a very strong argument, but was his actions against purposely targeted women and children or against military or state targets, where women and children got in the cross fire. Lets remember the terrorists are strapping bombs to kids to blow up shit nowBertster7 wrote:
Well....
http://www.theamericancause.org/patterr … ghters.htm
There's even a book about him called "Menahem Begin, from freedom fighter to statesman"(ISBN:0884000516).
He also talks about himself as a freedom fighter during his Nobel prize speech in '78.
Or to get a feel of public opinion of him you could read the reviews for his book about his time as a terrorist/"freedom fighter"
I do however, bow to you meeting my challenge, and naming Begin. Good one.
Xbone Stormsurgezz