BF2S Forums -4 penalty for teamkills too harsh?

I feel your pain as a pilot - especially when your taking out armor and apc's admist friendlys and you manage to tag a friendly along with the enemy and they punish...yet the lesson you have to learn is not what you want to hear but simple:

a) Don't bomb near friendlies until you let the APC/Armor kill them all (which they will) because your teammates are too stupid to understand the value of keeping the flag and most of the friendlies alive with a dead enemy tank. Rather, let all your team die at that point while you bust a loop, then bomb the enemy vehicle. This isn't team work, but at least you won't get punished (and good lord they punish every time!).

b) Bomb with something other then the bomber, F35 J10 MIG29 - they are much more accurate and you can bomb admist friendlies with a lot less tk's.

c) If your team is being particularly stupid, tell them to stop punishing you and now they must die, then swap to the other team and bomb them to get that feeling of sweet justice.

Worst thing that happens is on a 64 player server, flying and racking up a nice score, only to get kicked with 1xx points and banned till the round change lmao. Happens a lot - two many poor pilots making poor decisions makes every infantry punish regardless of the circumstances. Explaining in chat helps a little bit, but most people punish before you can even say sorry.

With a little bit of practice you can easily take out any sort of armor in one pass. It just takes some work to get a feel for how to release the bombs. If you come in at about a 45 degree angle and press the nose of the plane down ever so slightly after the first bomb releases and hold it until the second one is away then they will both hit in the same location killing any tank or apc that is unfortunate enough to be in the way.

Generally I won't take risky shots around friendly teammates unless I know for sure that taking out that tank will help the team more than it will hurt my score, or if I'm feeling lucky and think I can take it out without hurting my team. It just sucks when I nail a tank directly and a teammate is standing next to it trying to c4 it... oh well.

I think it should be more, -8 for TK's.  It would scare alot of people who actually care.

How about a punishment for the punisher(-2) on thier score for the idiots that run right past your claymores then punish you for it. I don't usually punish them unless I know 100% that it was done on purpose and almost never punish Vehicle/Flyers just too many variables to blame them.

just my thoughs

Make it hard to punish, easy to forgive.

To punish you can only do it after respawn and you must acsess a menu simmilar to the one you have to enable a kickvote.

Most asshats just pun for the hell of it, not for any particular valid reason. Now if you had to invest som time to do it i belive some would rather continue fragging.

I believe punishing used to add another -4 in pre 1.03; I vibrantly recall learning this the hard way starting out a round with -16 and stuff from two tk's lol not good times.

..........OR just an instant ban if someone is shot out of the jet by a friendly with an M95, it can't be that hard to implement and I see no room for error!

Click them >

I have what might be a simple and fair solution; Make the TK value cumulative within a round.
First TK -1 point
Second TK -2 points
Third TK -3 points
Etc.

So if you commit just one TK, it costs you just a single point.
Three TKs in a round is six points, the total for four is TEN points, five is 15 points!

This teaches you to BE MORE CAREFUL if you get a TK, while not punishing players who are generally careful too severely.

What do you you think?

Progressive/scalable TK punishments  and TK penalty areas are the answer IMNSHO:

Simply put, each TK in a round costs you more, so 1st Tk is -1, 2nd is -2 but if you somehow TK 10 folks you're 10th TK is -10. Under that scheme at 7 TKs in a round you'd have -28, same as under the current system and any more than that and you're score plummets quickly, very quickly.  IThis system is pretty hard to exploit, it's also easy to tweak so that the odd accidental TK doesn't hurt too much and carelessness or deliberate TKing can be more heavily punished. For example servers could be allowed to set their own TK punishment levels, maybe after the 3rd TK (-3 points) the TK punishment is doubled (so 4th Tk is -8, 5th is -10 and so on), giving admins that power would allow them to create servers of different TK tolerance levels which again helps us find somewhere we're happy to play.

TK penalty areas are simple and work alongside the scalable TK punishments system. Where do you see the most TKs? Around tank, heli or jet spawns, right? So any TK in those areas is considered deliberate and gets the full -4 (or perhaps an automatic doubling of whatever scale punishment he is on), except and here's the tricky part, by the vehicle that spawns for say, 10 seconds and only for non weapon kills (i.e. running folks over) . So if you wait for a jet,grab it first and some tool C4s you he gets the full -4, same if he shoots you while you both wait for the jet to spawn. But if he deliberately plants himself in front of the jet so you can't take off without TKing him, you only get -1 (if anything) for TKing him as you take off (within the penalty free period of course).

Simple (relatively). Enforceable (I imagine, I know nothing about programming games, but it doesn't sound that hard to me, but like I say, what do I know?). Fair (well, I think so).

*Edit* Dang, beaten to the punch on the progressive punishment idea, but it does seem to make the most sense to me and apaprently other folks too...

Last edited by RhadamanthysSCC (2005-12-09 01:41:31)

Vic42 wrote:

I have what might be a simple and fair solution; Make the TK value cumulative within a round.
First TK -1 point
Second TK -2 points
Third TK -3 points
Etc.

What do you you think?

This sounds like a very good idea, seeing as constant teamkillers would have massive negative scores and maybe accidental grenade killers would only get around -1.

Why couldn't EA have thought through their punish system and got something like that

its fine just how it is ...dont drop bombs on your teamates .. look at the minimap or hit m and look at the big map before you drop em .. if you see blue where youre aiming dont drop em pretty simple