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2007-04-19 16:54:03
l41e
Member
+677|7098

You know what? I don't think we want to win this for the sake of the Iraqis. Not by a long shot. If we cared that much, we would've taken Saddam out back in '91. No, it would seem like winning...it's for American pride. I suppose some of us want to keep up the winning streak - we were on the winning team in the Great War, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I, and by God, we're going to win this one so we can brag to our grandkids about how we kicked their sorry Arabic asses.

Or not. Perhaps Humility 101 is in order.
2007-04-19 17:04:41
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7051|132 and Bush

CameronPoe wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd just like to point out for the record m3thod that I foresaw practically all of this. Right back to the 'anthrax vial in the UN' charade. Yet nobody listened to this Irishman - Ireland: living proof that no-one wants any higher powers dabbling in their affairs, arriving unwelcomed or overstaying what little welcome they had, that people are prepared to resist to the bitter end with the most inhumane methods available and that hatred is the hardest emotion to overcome.
Saddam had a way of dealing with "resistance".. what was called again? Oh yea, mustard gas. I know, none of our business.
None of our business is right. Business of neighbouring nations maybe but not us. Why be so selective if you're going to be an interventionist anyway? Why not North Korea? Why not Zimbabwe? Why not poor Chechnya?
I was pointing out the brutal necessity to deal with the resistance. Not justifying our being there. You and method are quick to check your play card for the appropriate response to what you think I was saying. You got too hung up on the none of our business remark (I knew the response was inevitable so I preempted it). Europe and Africa are the most bloodstained continents in the world. I hope to hell we never send our troops over there unless we the United States are directly threatened, Sorry France, Sorry Kuwait.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-04-19 17:13:05
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6979|Global Command

k30dxedle wrote:

You know what? I don't think we want to win this for the sake of the Iraqis. Not by a long shot. If we cared that much, we would've taken Saddam out back in '91. No, it would seem like winning...it's for American pride. I suppose some of us want to keep up the winning streak - we were on the winning team in the Great War, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I, and by God, we're going to win this one so we can brag to our grandkids about how we kicked their sorry Arabic asses.

Or not. Perhaps Humility 101 is in order.
The U.N. resolutions did not authorize any more use of force once Iraq left Kuwait.
2007-04-19 17:14:11
l41e
Member
+677|7098

ATG wrote:

k30dxedle wrote:

You know what? I don't think we want to win this for the sake of the Iraqis. Not by a long shot. If we cared that much, we would've taken Saddam out back in '91. No, it would seem like winning...it's for American pride. I suppose some of us want to keep up the winning streak - we were on the winning team in the Great War, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I, and by God, we're going to win this one so we can brag to our grandkids about how we kicked their sorry Arabic asses.

Or not. Perhaps Humility 101 is in order.
The U.N. resolutions did not authorize any more use of force once Iraq left Kuwait.
That was not the point of my post. There are about 50 more words in there, give or take. Replace '91 with '75 or '03 or whatever you like.
2007-04-19 18:16:57
jonsimon
Member
+224|6945

Masques wrote:

So if Democrats' simply stating that the war is lost actually constitutes a loss, then all the administration needs to do to "win" (which has never actually been defined) is to clap louder...right?
Actually, now that the dems have declared defeat they've only neutralized Bush's earlier declaration of victory. Now we're back at square one.
2007-04-19 18:18:04
jonsimon
Member
+224|6945

ATG wrote:

k30dxedle wrote:

You know what? I don't think we want to win this for the sake of the Iraqis. Not by a long shot. If we cared that much, we would've taken Saddam out back in '91. No, it would seem like winning...it's for American pride. I suppose some of us want to keep up the winning streak - we were on the winning team in the Great War, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I, and by God, we're going to win this one so we can brag to our grandkids about how we kicked their sorry Arabic asses.

Or not. Perhaps Humility 101 is in order.
The U.N. resolutions did not authorize any more use of force once Iraq left Kuwait.
The US has selective hearing when it regards UN resolutions.
2007-04-19 18:26:56
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6941|Menlo Park, CA

jonsimon wrote:

ATG wrote:

k30dxedle wrote:

You know what? I don't think we want to win this for the sake of the Iraqis. Not by a long shot. If we cared that much, we would've taken Saddam out back in '91. No, it would seem like winning...it's for American pride. I suppose some of us want to keep up the winning streak - we were on the winning team in the Great War, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I, and by God, we're going to win this one so we can brag to our grandkids about how we kicked their sorry Arabic asses.

Or not. Perhaps Humility 101 is in order.
The U.N. resolutions did not authorize any more use of force once Iraq left Kuwait.
The US has selective hearing when it regards UN resolutions.
The UN has selective hearing when it comes to right, wrong, and defending the undefendable!
2007-04-19 18:36:53
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7101|USA

Kmarion wrote:

m3thod wrote:



Bush, Cheny, Rusmfuck, Wolfy, Condi (any other cunt?) lost.

Dems are cashing in.  Wouldn't you?
Iraqi's lost. Embarrassing for the US, Tragic for them.
Is there anything MORE the democrats could have done to ensure total failure?
2007-04-19 18:38:49
Superslim
BF2s Frat Brother
+211|7142|Calgary

ATG wrote:

k30dxedle wrote:

You know what? I don't think we want to win this for the sake of the Iraqis. Not by a long shot. If we cared that much, we would've taken Saddam out back in '91. No, it would seem like winning...it's for American pride. I suppose some of us want to keep up the winning streak - we were on the winning team in the Great War, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf I, and by God, we're going to win this one so we can brag to our grandkids about how we kicked their sorry Arabic asses.

Or not. Perhaps Humility 101 is in order.
The U.N. resolutions did not authorize any more use of force once Iraq left Kuwait.
No offence but the U.N. is completely useless.
2007-04-19 18:48:18
redhawk454
Member
+50|6998|Divided States of America

CameronPoe wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070419184534.ileoeb47&show_article=1

War is lost.  So the dems win!

Thttpt.
LOL. Well your troop surge was a load of bullshit that did nothing so I can't see it any other way: the war is 'lost' (I thought it was a reconstruction operation, not a war!). Now let the Iraqis fight amongst themselves in peace...
For once I agree.
2007-04-19 18:49:18
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6696|York
@lowing. no they lost the election twice. i think thats more than enough
2007-04-19 18:52:25
redhawk454
Member
+50|6998|Divided States of America

m3thod wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd just like to point out for the record m3thod that I foresaw practically all of this. Right back to the 'anthrax vial in the UN' charade. Yet nobody listened to this Irishman - Ireland: living proof that no-one wants any higher powers dabbling in their affairs, arriving unwelcomed or overstaying what little welcome they had, that people are prepared to resist to the bitter end with the most inhumane methods available and that hatred is the hardest emotion to overcome.
Saddam had a way of dealing with "resistance".. what was called again? Oh yea, mustard gas. I know, none of our business.
Rwanda: where were you? (not convenient)
Darfur: where where you? (not convenient)
East timor: Where where you? (not convenient)

Halabja! That motherfucker killed people! Lets get him! (Convenient)

Doesn't wash with me.
Ok then where was anyone? You were in front of your monitor. While our guys were overthere fighting.

Last edited by redhawk454 (2007-04-19 18:53:04)

2007-04-19 19:06:35
Sanjaya
Banned
+40|6677
ZOMG LIBERALS!!!!1111111

Fadedsteve, you above all need to really take a look at reality. It's been lost for awhile. The US is not invincible, like it or not.
2007-04-19 19:08:11
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7218

DBBrinson1 wrote:

War is lost.  So the dems win!

Thttpt.
that's a stupid comment. Its more of a fact that the Bush administration failed.
2007-04-19 19:11:33
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6746|Bloomington Indiana
http://infoshout.com/
2007-04-19 19:24:32
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|7123|Colorado
The American public at some point decided that wars have to have no casualties & won in 3 days.
If we leave Iraq we are sentencing to death a large portion of the nation. Look how well Japan, Germany & south Korea are doing today, which we never left. What makes people think we are ever leaving Iraq or Afghanistan? Once they get a taste of what freedom has to offer they will defend it themselves vehemently.
2007-04-19 19:44:51
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6696|York
japan germany and south korea werent bombing themselves to pieces,with several extremist factions each, two of them were defeated nations on the brink of starvation, the other had a corrupt and weak government which was propped up and not completely destroyed.
all of them unlike iraq in some rather fundamental situations. how about likening it to chechnya, or the soviet invasion of Afghanistan?
2007-04-19 19:54:28
san4
The Mas
+311|7138|NYC, a place to live

CameronPoe wrote:

I'd just like to point out for the record m3thod that I foresaw practically all of this. Right back to the 'anthrax vial in the UN' charade. Yet nobody listened to this Irishman - Ireland: living proof that no-one wants any higher powers dabbling in their affairs, arriving unwelcomed or overstaying what little welcome they had, that people are prepared to resist to the bitter end with the most inhumane methods available and that hatred is the hardest emotion to overcome.
I had a great conversation with my grandfather the morning after Bush's state of the union speech. The "axis of evil/mushroom cloud" speech convinced many people the U.S. should invade Iraq, but my grandfather said, "there's no need to invade. Saddam is in a box. He can't hurt anybody." I'm not sure how he knew, but he was basically correct. Not too bad for a 97-year-old guy.
2007-04-19 19:57:53
Toxicseagull
Member
+10|6696|York
a lot of people where saying that mate, they just got shouted down as either liberals or un-patriotic, hell just as lier's.
check Cook's resignation speech, its on youtube. and remind yourself it was months before the invasion.
2007-04-19 20:36:34
Fen321
Member
+54|6948|Singularity
*sniff*

WOW, $500 billion tax dollars that we all have to pay via taxes....taxes....which are taken directly from our pay checks...Hurray Freedom!
2007-04-19 20:44:48
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7051|132 and Bush

Yes we lost, a dead brutal regime and a freely elected government in Iraq... what a sad day. Earth to Middle East: Resume your sick civilization, our boys will be home soon. In the meantime the US will restore it's credibility, gain knowledge from it's now experienced veterans, and continue to piss off the old displaced world powers. The Middle East will be what it is forever, no matter how pathetic it may appear to us, it is their will. We erred on the side of freedom, lost some good people, and got an important reminder of how important progress is for our own future. It's not a loss, it's doing all that you can do as an outsider. We provided opportunity, however you can not force success upon a person. It is easier for them to embrace failure at all cost rather than lose dignity. I only hope their children understand the need their parents had to revel in fratricidal slaughter. Iraq could have been a success, not for the United States. Our embarrassment came in the form of WMD's and bad intelligence both locally and abroad. But for the Iraqi's, they will have decades to ponder the what might have beens..



See ATG, I'm still here.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-04-19 20:49:49
Fen321
Member
+54|6948|Singularity
I'm not sure how we provided opportunity -- care to elaborate? The ipso facto war we fought can hardly be considered an opportunity creating endeavor.  Due to well ALL THE KILLINGS being a consequence of an illegal invasion. Yes its true, it was illegal ;( poo.
2007-04-19 20:53:23
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6979|Global Command

Fen321 wrote:

I'm not sure how we provided opportunity -- care to elaborate? The ipso facto war we fought can hardly be considered an opportunity creating endeavor.  Due to well ALL THE KILLINGS being a consequence of an illegal invasion. Yes its true, it was illegal ;( poo.
The consequences do not negate the opportunity.

Now they will reap the consequences of not taking the opportunity that was given to them.
2007-04-19 20:56:06
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7051|132 and Bush

Fen321 wrote:

I'm not sure how we provided opportunity -- care to elaborate? The ipso facto war we fought can hardly be considered an opportunity creating endeavor.  Due to well ALL THE KILLINGS being a consequence of an illegal invasion. Yes its true, it was illegal ;( poo.
Sure, we brought them a true democracy, equal rights, and an opportunity to stand with the rest of the world. We lifted sanctions that had been imposed by the UN under their leaders defiance of over fourteen years. The majority of the killings you speak of came in the form of Iraqi on Iraqi. Blame (heaven forbid) falls on the murders, who while protesting an occupation decided the best way to object would be to kill their brothers..

Now you tell me who lost.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-04-19 23:00:39
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|7020|Portland, OR, USA

Sanjaya wrote:

ZOMG LIBERALS!!!!1111111

Fadedsteve, you above all need to really take a look at reality. It's been lost for awhile. The US is not invincible, like it or not.
It's not being invincible or not.  It's the fact that our elected officials like to get involved in wars that we
1) shouldn't be in and they generally get us there by huge lies
2) can never win.  Ever.  You can't enter a war that has been going on for many years and expect it to just stop.  As shitty as it sounds, at this point we really can't do anything except watch them kill each other. 

And it's not about the US losing...  That just makes us look like bigger assholes -- I mean sure we lost 1000+ troops and hundreds of billions of dollars.. but the Iraqi's pretty much lost their country; though they never really had it.

It's an all around shitty deal... hopefully someday the Iraqis will be able to work it out amongst themselves, because we sure as hell can't do anything at this point.

 

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