Does it really matter? Let's put it this way. Israel keeps oppressing the Palestinians, they control their lives like in a prison. The Palestinian extremists throw rockets into Israel. Israel attacks Palestine. It's a neverending circle. Israel is a country with a democratic government, they should be more moderate, and they should not act like extremists. Palestine isn't even a country.Pug wrote:
Sure, but the problem is a chain of violence in which cannot be broken until someone steps up and works a solution which satisfies the evils of the past.
Which is why the question - who exactly is retaliating? - is the problem with this entire discussion...
Last edited by sergeriver (2007-04-24 10:51:39)
Seriously, would this post hold any merit had the rockets killed twenty people. Seems like the OP is sad it didn't. "We tried to kill your people but we missed so it didn't count." That's the BS your trying to justify?!sergeriver wrote:
Six Palestinians have been killed in Israeli army raids in the West Bank and an air strike in the Gaza Strip, in the worst flare-up of violence in weeks. The strike came shortly after rockets were fired from Gaza into southern Israel, slightly injuring two people.
The attacks came after some state-of-the-art rockets slightly injured two people. Wow, those Palestinians take attacks seriously. Those rockets are top notch. They slightly injured two people. Israel, after this "Genocide", had to punish them, killing 6.
This is the way Israel deals with things. Back in 2006 Hezbollah captured two soldiers, and they killed +1000 civilians in retaliation, leaving half of Lebanon destroyed.
If Israel is playing this game, they will never be tolerated by the Arab Nations, and the Middle East sooner or later will see the destruction of this country. GG Israel.
No, read the whole thread, I never justified extremists. What I don't understand is the hevy-handedness of Israel. Palestinian extremists are wrong, but so is Israel.rawls2 wrote:
Seriously, would this post hold any merit had the rockets killed twenty people. Seems like the OP is sad it didn't. "We tried to kill your people but we missed so it didn't count." That's the BS your trying to justify?!sergeriver wrote:
Six Palestinians have been killed in Israeli army raids in the West Bank and an air strike in the Gaza Strip, in the worst flare-up of violence in weeks. The strike came shortly after rockets were fired from Gaza into southern Israel, slightly injuring two people.
The attacks came after some state-of-the-art rockets slightly injured two people. Wow, those Palestinians take attacks seriously. Those rockets are top notch. They slightly injured two people. Israel, after this "Genocide", had to punish them, killing 6.
This is the way Israel deals with things. Back in 2006 Hezbollah captured two soldiers, and they killed +1000 civilians in retaliation, leaving half of Lebanon destroyed.
If Israel is playing this game, they will never be tolerated by the Arab Nations, and the Middle East sooner or later will see the destruction of this country. GG Israel.
I am not trying to justify the circle of violence, I am merely trying to appreciate the Palestinian point of view and where their extremism come from. I do not condone attacks on innocent people.Pug wrote:
My statement refers to whether its more important to assess blame then to work towards a solution.Braddock wrote:
I don't really know what you're getting at...I've been discussing the birth of Israel as a nation and the situation that that arose from and the fact that they established the State at the expense of Palestinian territory, that is the past where the State of Israel is concerned. Would you like me to go back further to the fact that the Hittites were there back in the early early days and that if they showed up Israel's oft used argument of we were here first would be in trouble?Pug wrote:
How come with the Israeli's you focus on the future, but with the Palestinians you focus on the past?
You are justifying the circle of violence by telling me the Palestinians have every right to use violence, which historically means they are going to get their asses handed to them...
And to interject into the Lowing beratement - the conflict expanded to include other topics beyond treatment of the Palestinians once Jihad is declared and other countries are involved...
What makes the issue so complex is its a long series of unfortunate events. You can't isolate one event because it has historical implications beyond the issue at hand. And the historical implications themselves are pluralistic which only solidify one side or the other...
It's time they tried something different - focusing on the future.
My opinion is assessing blame is not helpful. Everyone (at least those usually participating here) knows being a Palestinian sucks.Braddock wrote:
I am not trying to justify the circle of violence, I am merely trying to appreciate the Palestinian point of view and where their extremism come from. I do not condone attacks on innocent people.
Last edited by Pug (2007-04-24 11:04:46)
The whole reason why I'm posting here today is because you failed to recognize what Rawls is telling you - that firing rockets by either side sucks - and that your tone is such that it's okay because they missed.sergeriver wrote:
No, read the whole thread, I never justified extremists. What I don't understand is the hevy-handedness of Israel. Palestinian extremists are wrong, but so is Israel.rawls2 wrote:
Seriously, would this post hold any merit had the rockets killed twenty people. Seems like the OP is sad it didn't. "We tried to kill your people but we missed so it didn't count." That's the BS your trying to justify?!
Right, but yet you post a question about whether retaliation is the solution to the problem and focus on only one side...until someone forces you to elaborate.sergeriver wrote:
Does it really matter? Let's put it this way. Israel keeps oppressing the Palestinians, they control their lives like in a prison. The Palestinian extremists throw rockets into Israel. Israel attacks Palestine. It's a neverending circle. Israel is a country with a democratic government, they should be more moderate, and they should not act like extremists. Palestine isn't even a country.Pug wrote:
Sure, but the problem is a chain of violence in which cannot be broken until someone steps up and works a solution which satisfies the evils of the past.
Which is why the question - who exactly is retaliating? - is the problem with this entire discussion...
Edit: the movie is Shrek
Then I was misunderstood, I never said I support extremists. I said what a waste of lives. Why did they have to kill 6 innocent people, because of that failed attack. Why don't you leave that for the UN? That's all. I'm not justifying the extremists throwing rockets into Israel. I think Israel could do better than the extremists and try diplomacy for once.Pug wrote:
The whole reason why I'm posting here today is because you failed to recognize what Rawls is telling you - that firing rockets by either side sucks - and that your tone is such that it's okay because they missed.sergeriver wrote:
No, read the whole thread, I never justified extremists. What I don't understand is the hevy-handedness of Israel. Palestinian extremists are wrong, but so is Israel.rawls2 wrote:
Seriously, would this post hold any merit had the rockets killed twenty people. Seems like the OP is sad it didn't. "We tried to kill your people but we missed so it didn't count." That's the BS your trying to justify?!
The state of Israel has every right to defend itself however it sees fit. Palestines are trying to kill Israelis. How much more heavyhanded does it get?sergeriver wrote:
No, read the whole thread, I never justified extremists. What I don't understand is the hevy-handedness of Israel. Palestinian extremists are wrong, but so is Israel.rawls2 wrote:
Seriously, would this post hold any merit had the rockets killed twenty people. Seems like the OP is sad it didn't. "We tried to kill your people but we missed so it didn't count." That's the BS your trying to justify?!sergeriver wrote:
Six Palestinians have been killed in Israeli army raids in the West Bank and an air strike in the Gaza Strip, in the worst flare-up of violence in weeks. The strike came shortly after rockets were fired from Gaza into southern Israel, slightly injuring two people.
The attacks came after some state-of-the-art rockets slightly injured two people. Wow, those Palestinians take attacks seriously. Those rockets are top notch. They slightly injured two people. Israel, after this "Genocide", had to punish them, killing 6.
This is the way Israel deals with things. Back in 2006 Hezbollah captured two soldiers, and they killed +1000 civilians in retaliation, leaving half of Lebanon destroyed.
If Israel is playing this game, they will never be tolerated by the Arab Nations, and the Middle East sooner or later will see the destruction of this country. GG Israel.
Last edited by rawls2 (2007-04-24 11:09:02)
No it doesn't. (...One useless comment countered with another, we could do this all night)rawls2 wrote:
The state of Israel has every right to defend itself however it sees fit.sergeriver wrote:
No, read the whole thread, I never justified extremists. What I don't understand is the hevy-handedness of Israel. Palestinian extremists are wrong, but so is Israel.rawls2 wrote:
Seriously, would this post hold any merit had the rockets killed twenty people. Seems like the OP is sad it didn't. "We tried to kill your people but we missed so it didn't count." That's the BS your trying to justify?!
No according to Serge, Israel has no right to be more effective in war than Palestine. It does not matter that Palestine constantly is starting shit, Israel MUST, to keep it fair, tie one hand behind her back.rawls2 wrote:
The state of Israel has every right to defend itself however it sees fit.sergeriver wrote:
No, read the whole thread, I never justified extremists. What I don't understand is the hevy-handedness of Israel. Palestinian extremists are wrong, but so is Israel.rawls2 wrote:
Seriously, would this post hold any merit had the rockets killed twenty people. Seems like the OP is sad it didn't. "We tried to kill your people but we missed so it didn't count." That's the BS your trying to justify?!
Nobody is forcing me to elaborate. What I say is what I think. I still think Israel is a terrorist state, and that Palestinian extremists should stop throwing rockets into Israel. I never said it was right to send rockets into another country. If it looked like that, then I was misunderstood.Pug wrote:
Right, but yet you post a question about whether retaliation is the solution to the problem and focus on only one side...until someone forces you to elaborate.sergeriver wrote:
Does it really matter? Let's put it this way. Israel keeps oppressing the Palestinians, they control their lives like in a prison. The Palestinian extremists throw rockets into Israel. Israel attacks Palestine. It's a neverending circle. Israel is a country with a democratic government, they should be more moderate, and they should not act like extremists. Palestine isn't even a country.Pug wrote:
Sure, but the problem is a chain of violence in which cannot be broken until someone steps up and works a solution which satisfies the evils of the past.
Which is why the question - who exactly is retaliating? - is the problem with this entire discussion...
Edit: the movie is Shrek
Sure, but that's complicated too. Who does Israel negotiate with? The Hamas? Iran? Syria? The Palestinians? Are they all on the same page?sergeriver wrote:
Then I was misunderstood, I never said I support extremists. I said what a waste of lives. Why did they have to kill 6 innocent people, because of that failed attack. Why don't you leave that for the UN? That's all. I'm not justifying the extremists throwing rockets into Israel. I think Israel could do better than the extremists and try diplomacy for once.
Close the UN then.lowing wrote:
No according to Serge, Israel has no right to be more effective in war than Palestine. It does not matter that Palestine constantly is starting shit, Israel MUST, to keep it fair, tie one hand behind her back.rawls2 wrote:
The state of Israel has every right to defend itself however it sees fit.sergeriver wrote:
No, read the whole thread, I never justified extremists. What I don't understand is the hevy-handedness of Israel. Palestinian extremists are wrong, but so is Israel.
If we had the answer to your question we'd be receiving the Nobel Prize of Peace.Pug wrote:
Sure, but that's complicated too. Who does Israel negotiate with? The Hamas? Iran? Syria? The Palestinians? Are they all on the same page?sergeriver wrote:
Then I was misunderstood, I never said I support extremists. I said what a waste of lives. Why did they have to kill 6 innocent people, because of that failed attack. Why don't you leave that for the UN? That's all. I'm not justifying the extremists throwing rockets into Israel. I think Israel could do better than the extremists and try diplomacy for once.
Fuck the UN, close it. I agree. They are having a war Serge!!.sergeriver wrote:
Close the UN then.lowing wrote:
No according to Serge, Israel has no right to be more effective in war than Palestine. It does not matter that Palestine constantly is starting shit, Israel MUST, to keep it fair, tie one hand behind her back.rawls2 wrote:
The state of Israel has every right to defend itself however it sees fit.
Why would the UN be involved if attacks are happening inside Israel who has it's own military and doesn't need a world body fighting for them. What we need to start focusing on is why Iran is still being allowed to perpetuate this violence it created.sergeriver wrote:
Close the UN then.lowing wrote:
No according to Serge, Israel has no right to be more effective in war than Palestine. It does not matter that Palestine constantly is starting shit, Israel MUST, to keep it fair, tie one hand behind her back.rawls2 wrote:
The state of Israel has every right to defend itself however it sees fit.
I guess you endorse running to ask the UN if we can defend ourselves against aggressors huh?? I couldn't see any corruption coming from that scenario, do you??sergeriver wrote:
Close the UN then.lowing wrote:
No according to Serge, Israel has no right to be more effective in war than Palestine. It does not matter that Palestine constantly is starting shit, Israel MUST, to keep it fair, tie one hand behind her back.rawls2 wrote:
The state of Israel has every right to defend itself however it sees fit.
Last edited by lowing (2007-04-24 11:17:06)
Lowing, you are smarter than that. Israel is the 4th largest Army in the World, and the Palestinians live in that shit hole called OT. Are you being serious? Are you proposing an ethnic cleansing? Because that's what will happen if Israel and Palestine engage in a war.lowing wrote:
Fuck the UN, close it. I agree. They are having a war Serge!!.sergeriver wrote:
Close the UN then.lowing wrote:
No according to Serge, Israel has no right to be more effective in war than Palestine. It does not matter that Palestine constantly is starting shit, Israel MUST, to keep it fair, tie one hand behind her back.
Let me ask you something. In Iraq you take a position to pull out and let them have their civil war, thus the chips fall where they may. Why do you not take the same stance with regard to Israel and Palestine. Let them fight, the one who is left standing wins.
You will undoubtedly say it is unfair because the US supplies Israel. Well, I wonder who is supplying Palestine.
I mean they could try diplomacy for once.rawls2 wrote:
Why would the UN be involved if attacks are happening inside Israel who has it's own military and doesn't need a world body fighting for them. What we need to start focusing on is why Iran is still being allowed to perpetuate this violence it created.sergeriver wrote:
Close the UN then.lowing wrote:
No according to Serge, Israel has no right to be more effective in war than Palestine. It does not matter that Palestine constantly is starting shit, Israel MUST, to keep it fair, tie one hand behind her back.
Soooooo you don't want them to fight because you know who will win, and it ain't your side??sergeriver wrote:
Lowing, you are smarter than that. Israel is the 4th largest Army in the World, and the Palestinians live in that shit hole called OT. Are you being serious? Are you proposing an ethnic cleansing? Because that's what will happen if Israel and Palestine engage in a war.lowing wrote:
Fuck the UN, close it. I agree. They are having a war Serge!!.sergeriver wrote:
Close the UN then.
Let me ask you something. In Iraq you take a position to pull out and let them have their civil war, thus the chips fall where they may. Why do you not take the same stance with regard to Israel and Palestine. Let them fight, the one who is left standing wins.
You will undoubtedly say it is unfair because the US supplies Israel. Well, I wonder who is supplying Palestine.
Yeah, it has never worked in the ME before so there is no reason why it shouldn't this time, right??sergeriver wrote:
I mean they could try diplomacy for once.rawls2 wrote:
Why would the UN be involved if attacks are happening inside Israel who has it's own military and doesn't need a world body fighting for them. What we need to start focusing on is why Iran is still being allowed to perpetuate this violence it created.sergeriver wrote:
Close the UN then.
I don't want Israel to disappear. If you think that you are wrong buddy. Palestine ain't my side, I belong to the other side, at least by heritage.lowing wrote:
Soooooo you don't want them to fight because you know who will win, and it ain't your side??sergeriver wrote:
Lowing, you are smarter than that. Israel is the 4th largest Army in the World, and the Palestinians live in that shit hole called OT. Are you being serious? Are you proposing an ethnic cleansing? Because that's what will happen if Israel and Palestine engage in a war.lowing wrote:
Fuck the UN, close it. I agree. They are having a war Serge!!.
Let me ask you something. In Iraq you take a position to pull out and let them have their civil war, thus the chips fall where they may. Why do you not take the same stance with regard to Israel and Palestine. Let them fight, the one who is left standing wins.
You will undoubtedly say it is unfair because the US supplies Israel. Well, I wonder who is supplying Palestine.
I am proposing that the Arabs and Palestininans STOP fucking with Israel, before they get the everliving shit kicked out of them...................................again.
Israel has to have that Army to defend itself from all those nutjob ME countries that openly call for its destruction.
Let me ask you this, please be honest. Lets say Israel is dismantled, the ME countries get their way. Do you honestly think peace will then break out all over the region?
Iran is Palestines real enemy. Focus on that.sergeriver wrote:
I don't want Israel to disappear. If you think that you are wrong buddy. Palestine ain't my side, I belong to the other side, at least by heritage.lowing wrote:
Soooooo you don't want them to fight because you know who will win, and it ain't your side??sergeriver wrote:
Lowing, you are smarter than that. Israel is the 4th largest Army in the World, and the Palestinians live in that shit hole called OT. Are you being serious? Are you proposing an ethnic cleansing? Because that's what will happen if Israel and Palestine engage in a war.
I am proposing that the Arabs and Palestininans STOP fucking with Israel, before they get the everliving shit kicked out of them...................................again.
Israel has to have that Army to defend itself from all those nutjob ME countries that openly call for its destruction.
Let me ask you this, please be honest. Lets say Israel is dismantled, the ME countries get their way. Do you honestly think peace will then break out all over the region?