Indoctrinate U

2007-04-26 10:12:53

#1

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7049|132 and Bush

This documentary looks pretty interesting. It is about the politics of American college campuses and free speech.
http://indoctrinate-u.com/

I posted a similar video before in which Penn and Teller touched on the same issue.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2007-04-26 10:29:43

#2

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6977|Global Command

Liberals piss me off. Talk about the facist in our society.

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/gov/2002/pd090502c.html

2007-04-26 10:47:49

#3

Agent_Dung_Bomb: Member; +302|7184|Salt Lake City

Uhhh, so what? It has been this way since at least the 1960s. That hasn't stopped people from having political affiliations with parties other than the Dems.

And ATG, please stop using liberals and Democrats as interchangeable terms. It's no different than the comment that not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim. The same thing here. Not all Democrats are liberals, but most liberals are Democrats.

I myself usually vote Democrat, but only for those with more moderate stances. The flip side of the dredid liberals, that of the neo-cons, is no better in any way, shape, or form.

2007-04-26 10:50:14

#4

PureFodder: Member; +225|6733

ATG wrote:
Liberals piss me off. Talk about the facist in our society.

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/gov/2002/pd090502c.html

So university arts teachers and scientists tend to be left wing. Wow. I'd never have ever believed that if someone hadn't told me.

Next they'll be telling me that most of the richest executive managers in the US are Republicans.
[/sarcasm]

2007-04-26 11:46:05

#5

RicardoBlanco: The English; +177|7016|Oxford

5 posts = no debate. Are you pro this attitude or against? Reasons may be helpful too.

2007-04-26 11:53:18

#6

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|7049|132 and Bush

RicardoBlanco wrote:
5 posts = no debate. Are you pro this attitude or against? Reasons may be helpful too.

Being as it is political in nature I posted it here to share. If you would like to know my attitude I am pro free speech and less Political Correctness. It seems that American universities are out to squash the very thing they are supposed to be promoting, free thought.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

2007-04-26 11:58:32

#7

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,993|7080|949

A few things -

This has been going on and still will be for a long time (not that it makes it right).

Adults today (who were subjected to this kind of thing in their younger years) still seem to be able to form independent opinions relatively well (kind-of).

Maybe professors and teachers believe the way they believe because they research the topics and come to rational conclusions, of which some happen to be 'left-wing' views (of course, I am going to get thoroughly flamed for suggesting some 'left-wing' views are rational).

All in all, the most important thing to remember is to keep an open mind. Make your own informed conclusion. That means looking at the evidence provided, and forming a conclusion based on critical analysis of the evidence. Of course, if you need to be told this while attending college, you may be too far gone.

Then again, a good amount of people who post in this forum just regurgitate mindless statements and catchphrases without actually doing research.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-04-26 12:24:15)

2007-04-26 12:03:00

#8

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,073|7220|PNW

Even if some individuals somehow manage to avoid the rampant political brainwashing of public education, there are still masses who seem unable to shake it off. And it isn't just passive indoctrination, either. There are some civics classes where instructors will actually slice your grade if you don't agree with their political beliefs.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
(of course, I am going to get thoroughly flamed for suggesting 'left-wing' views are rational)

I'll rationally reply that while some left-wing views are rational, others are not.

jonsimon wrote:
ATG wrote:
Liberals piss me off. Talk about the facist in our society.

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/gov/2002/pd090502c.html
Perhaps because when people are educated they tend to grow more liberal. It's a trend found over and over in western history. Two great examples? The whole of the enlightenment and scientific revolution.

Because the more you know about calculus, the more to the left you lean? Silly.

But I have plenty of liberal views, as defined. But I do disagree with other liberal views, especially as practiced. Is it liberal for an instructor who claims to be tolerant to slash a grade because you don't agree with his politics? Diversity for the win, eh? At the same time, I hold certain values of conservatism close to heart. As one definition goes, "disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc." is a great value under many circumstances, such as in the right to free speech, personal wealth, business ownership and freedom to make your own decisions...

Again, the terms "liberal" and "conservative" as practiced and commonly referred to are different animals than those as defined.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-04-26 12:14:59)

2007-04-26 12:04:15

#9

jonsimon: Member; +224|6943

ATG wrote:
Liberals piss me off. Talk about the facist in our society.

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/gov/2002/pd090502c.html

Perhaps because when people are educated they tend to grow more liberal. It's a trend found over and over in western history. Two great examples? The whole of the enlightenment and scientific revolution.

2007-04-26 16:49:52

#10

blisteringsilence: I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy; +83|7150|Little Rock, Arkansas

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Maybe professors and teachers believe the way they believe because they research the topics and come to rational conclusions, of which some happen to be 'left-wing' views (of course, I am going to get thoroughly flamed for suggesting some 'left-wing' views are rational).

Or, perpahs their views are so far left that they can't find a job that accepts them other than teaching. If you can, do. If you can't, teach. If you can't teach, teach teachers.

2007-04-26 17:36:42

#11

Vilham: Say wat!?; +580|7214|UK

I love reading the replys by some of the American posters here. More than not they post something like "damn liberals" or "damn conservatives" seriously not everything is black and white. You guys seem to love the blame game, pass the blame onto the other political side of the spectrum...

As to the topic. Im glad the uni's in England seem to at least listen slightly to the students, thats why voting student representatives is so important.

2007-04-26 18:39:48

#12

BVC: Member; +325|7143

Thats a sorry situation. University should be about knowledge, not political opinion.

2007-04-26 18:43:43

#13

Canin: Conservative Roman Catholic; +280|6923|Foothills of S. Carolina

I don't think the professors preaching their political views would be such a big deal if it didn't have an effect on the students grades and ability to learn. That being said, I don't think it is proper for a student to have to pay the high rates colleges charge these days so they can sit in a class and have a professor dictate to them their morale and political doctrines, left, right or centrist. If I am paying to go to that college it is to learn and better prepare myself for my future and my advancement in a career field, not to be told by the teacher why any number of politically incendiary ideals are right or wrong.

Edit: And if I get the chance I think I would like to see this documentary.... Thank you Kmarion.

Last edited by Canin (2007-04-26 18:44:57)

2007-04-26 22:50:19

#14

GorillaTicTacs: Member; +231|6821|Kyiv, Ukraine

I'm curious if anyone who has actually attended college has had his grade slashed based on his political views.

The only way I can see it happening from a "liberal professor" is when a Conservative student would present a half-assed thesis and attempt to support it in an essay via emotion instead of fact. Saying things like "because God said so," for example, in a science thesis would definitely get a grade docked. Making up "factoids" with no basis in actual facts (see the Gore/EPA thread, or the 'only crackheads use foodstamps' thread) to support your classroom conversation, or as test answers, or in essays will get your grade docked. The professor isn't judging your political views, just the depth of thinking, which is naturally prejudiced towards a liberal viewpoint much as facts have a well-known liberal bias.

2007-04-26 23:25:19

#15

ronmexico86: Member; +2|6831

GorillaTicTacs wrote:
I'm curious if anyone who has actually attended college has had his grade slashed based on his political views.

The only way I can see it happening from a "liberal professor" is when a Conservative student would present a half-assed thesis and attempt to support it in an essay via emotion instead of fact. Saying things like "because God said so," for example, in a science thesis would definitely get a grade docked. Making up "factoids" with no basis in actual facts (see the Gore/EPA thread, or the 'only crackheads use foodstamps' thread) to support your classroom conversation, or as test answers, or in essays will get your grade docked. The professor isn't judging your political views, just the depth of thinking, which is naturally prejudiced towards a liberal viewpoint much as facts have a well-known liberal bias.

Don't rule out private religious schools. My friend is going to one of them and the biology teachers at his school refuse to talk about evolution (though genetics, biochem, etc are fine). I'm guessing mentioning evolution in some way would likely result in a lower grade at his school.

Also, not every teacher attempts to force his/her views on students, and I doubt that there is some sort of policy to suppress free speech. In about half my classes, on controversial issues (like abortion) teachers will present multiple views on the issue, as well as reasons why the respective views could be considered incorrect. Of course, there are the ones that only speak their point of view, but that happened in high school as well.

That being said, I'm looking forward to seeing the documentary when it comes out and comparing it to my current college experience.

2007-05-01 00:42:11

#16

Bubbalo: The Lizzard; +541|7009

ATG wrote:
Talk about the facist in our society.

As has been mentioned, Fascism is a Conservative ideal.

I note the video has no actual evidence, just a parade of people making claims.

Last edited by Bubbalo (2007-05-01 00:44:06)

2007-05-01 05:11:29

#17

jonsimon: Member; +224|6943

Bubbalo wrote:
ATG wrote:
Talk about the facist in our society.
As has been mentioned, Fascism is a Conservative ideal.

I note the video has no actual evidence, just a parade of people making claims.

It is actually happening, though. The dispute would likely be to what extent.

2007-05-01 05:31:47

#18

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6738|Éire

Looks like this is going to turn into another Liberal bash-fest. In my book anyone who tries to oppressively force one viewpoint over another while disregarding objective argument is not a liberal and that's what some Colleges seem to be doing in the US.

ATG your link just seems to point out that Liberals are better educated than Republicans Don't tar all people who aren't on your end of the political spectrum with the same brush, we're not as bad as you think.

2007-05-01 06:28:54

#19

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7258|Nårvei

Isn`t that the problem very often that information given by a certain group is one sided and meant to reflect the views and opinions of that group, history shows this on many ocasions !

And opinions and views come to life after Ockham`s model alas being based on what you are told and what you know, not on what you do not know and have yet to discover !

And about education as mentioned i dare to make a statement that goes like this: The higher education level the bigger chance it is you are a liberal or moderate <------ a very general statement though !

Just look at ATG, his views are slowly leaving the strict conservative camp and have started leaning over to sniff at a moderate`s point of view

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2007-05-01 06:52:50

#20

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|7097

So I take it this is/will be a full length documentary? Is it out yet, and where can I torrent it/watch it on Youtube uhhhh purchase it legally?

2007-05-01 07:20:30

#21

Bubbalo: The Lizzard; +541|7009

jonsimon wrote:
It is actually happening, though. The dispute would likely be to what extent.

If it is then come to me with more than a few people claiming that it's happening.

2007-05-01 13:20:51

#22

jonsimon: Member; +224|6943

Bubbalo wrote:
jonsimon wrote:
It is actually happening, though. The dispute would likely be to what extent.
If it is then come to me with more than a few people claiming that it's happening.

I'm just speaking from experience. The politics on college campuses are very strong. Chicago economics alone is proof enough, with it's inability to adapt to quantum thinking and the errors of calculus.

2007-05-01 13:39:21

#23

fadedsteve: GOP Sympathizer; +266|6939|Menlo Park, CA

I went to the Univ of Oregon, and I cant think of ANY professor's EXCEPT my military science professor (which was a class I took freshman year!) that wasn't an obnoxious liberal. . . .

My political science class was a joke!! Me and maybe 10 to 15 people (class was easily 85+ people) were libertarian/republican. . . . The professor would sit and bash Ronald Reagan seemingly the entire time during lectures. . . .

It was a great school regardless, and I love rooting for my Ducks!! I just went about my business (which was partying lol) and blew off all the liberal "shit for brains". . . .lol

Its not nearly as bad as that shithole Cal Berkeley across the Bay!! That place needs to be demo'd!! I live 5 mins from Stanford Univ, and that place makes me want to throw up! Stanford too has TONS of liberal professors, that think they are gods gift! They live in such a bubble, it kills me!! Stanford at least has a huge conservative entity like the Hoover institute on campus that tries to at least balance the playing field!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-01 13:41:08)

2007-05-01 13:53:19

#24

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,993|7080|949

You know, when I was in college it seemed like the students themselves had more to do with it than the professors. I had 'liberal' professors (including one that used to remind me of a pirate with his long hair and earring) as well as 'conservative' professors (a 'black' International Relations teacher from the ghetto), and in my experience it was the students themselves who tried to turn the classes/campus into one-sided platforms.

I remember a specific instance in a Peace Studies class I took, where everyone had to give speeches at the end. There was one brave soul surrounded by all us 'hippies' who took the opportunity to give a speech on how a gun can be a good defensive tool. The teacher (though probably disagreeing with the student) said nothing against his argument. The students on the other hand, took it upon themselves to berate this person and tell him why he was wrong, not using logic and reason, but using their own emotional feelings about the issue. I ended up walking out of the class (along with one of my friends) and never going back.

If I were a professor, I would state my personal feelings on the issue, tell the class right from the get-go that I will be teaching this class from my own bias, explain my bias, and hope that they can still analyze events from their own perspective.

I don't blame my school or the University of California system, I blame the idiots that they let in there.

2007-05-01 13:55:11

#25

l41e: Member; +677|7096

Vilham wrote:
I love reading the replys by some of the American posters here. More than not they post something like "damn liberals" or "damn conservatives" seriously not everything is black and white. You guys seem to love the blame game, pass the blame onto the other political side of the spectrum...

Or, just pass the blame onto the Americans, wash your hands, and be done with it.

BF2S Forums Indoctrinate U

ATG wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

ATG wrote:

ATG wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

ATG wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

ATG wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Vilham wrote:

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