Poll

Material wealth: For the many or the few? (READ THREAD FIRST)

Many29%29% - 24
Few28%28% - 23
Somewhere in between32%32% - 27
Other9%9% - 8
Total: 82
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6852|North Carolina

blisteringsilence wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Blistering, do you believe that many people who are poor (regardless of race) are not able to fully operate at their potential because of lack of access to a decent education?

Personally, I think that's why some people born into poverty never leave it.  While I support privatizing education, I also like the school vouchers idea, since a larger private education market could be developed partially with the help of a welfare-like system.

In other words, you could socialize education for the poor but still have private firms running the schools.

This is a kind of "spreading the wealth" that could end up as efficient (if not more so than) as a system where no socialization is implemented.
No, I do not. I believe that every school offers a good education. That being said, I also believe that you have to work harder to get a good education at some schools than others. I went to college with kids from the poorest, most backwards broke-ass schools in the country. Places that make inner city schools look like palaces.

These kids came from poor, working class backgrounds. But, they rose above the bare minimum of what was expected of them. They worked harder than everyone else, studied at their part time jobs, and got full rides to college.

Perfect example. The guy that lived next door to me, his dad was a line worker at a weed-eater factory, and his mom was a waitress at a diner. They were broke assed poor, lived in a trailer, and the schools there were shitty. Patrick worked harder than anyone from his school, and then worked harder than anyone else at my college. He got one of two full rides given out to medical school.

And he was black.

And you know what? He didn't accept any scholarships that were limited to black students. He applied for, and won, scholarships that were competitions among all people. No income requirements. He wanted it, and he got it.

Beyond that, I do support vouchers. What I don't support is the government making it mandatory for a private school to accept a voucher in lieu of tuition.

Most of all, I believe in the power of people. If someone really wants something in this country, they can and will work hard enough to get it. There is no unacheiveable goal. And that's why I love living here.
Let's just say that I find your viewpoint rather....  idealistic.  Some people are able to rise above the odds, but most don't.  There are plenty of mostly unachievable goals, which is why some goals are only achieved by certain people.  Life is too complex to assume that your own actions completely determine your success in life.

If anything, who you know has more to do with where you get in life.  The corporate world is far from being a meritocracy.  Also, cunning doesn't hurt either.

Basically, capitalism in its most unrestricted forms is nothing short of ruthlessly Machiavellian.  I think the level of corporate corruption we see in America is indicative of that.

Granted, the sad thing is that we're still far better than a lot of the world, which shows you how fucked up the Third World is.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-05-12 20:00:04)

ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7096

IG-Calibre wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

So I take it no one else yet has arrived at what I pointed out earlier that it would be impossible for everyone to be wealthy? Or are we ignoring that detail?
No shit Sherlock! the idea of "material wealth" isn't to make everyone a millionaire. That is a very naive interpretation of the ideal, it's about defining and setting a poverty line & ensuring the greatest number possible don't fall below it, the goal is not make everyone a millionaire..
I'm thinking freehold house & land, a million bucks, three cars
Surely possessing a million bucks would technically make you a millionaire? And once the economy collapsed, how would you pay for the upkeep of these items?
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6945|Texas
Did anyone complaining about the evil rich white stranglehold on American society mention that although blacks and whites commit a very similar number of violent crimes, blacks are about 7 times over-represented?

Blacks are 12% of the population and commit 80% of the violent crimes.

That's a nasty little fact.

Don't make out like you are stuck in some bullshit Indian subcontinent caste system wherein you can't succeed if you have a lot of melanin in your skin. That's a chickenshit copout.

And as far as rags to riches, my Dad worked during the day reading meters for the electric company, and at night at 7-11, my Mom worked at a daycare that would keep us at a discount, and we saved money to put him through college, then medical school, and today everyone in my family who works (which excludes my mother) makes well in excess of the Rancho Mirage average wage. Why? Ass-busting and no excuses.

There are two kinds of people in the world: the kind that gets things done, and the kind that makes excuses why they don't get things done.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7002

Dersmikner wrote:

Did anyone complaining about the evil rich white stranglehold on American society mention that although blacks and whites commit a very similar number of violent crimes, blacks are about 7 times over-represented?

Blacks are 12% of the population and commit 80% of the violent crimes.

That's a nasty little fact.

Don't make out like you are stuck in some bullshit Indian subcontinent caste system wherein you can't succeed if you have a lot of melanin in your skin. That's a chickenshit copout.

And as far as rags to riches, my Dad worked during the day reading meters for the electric company, and at night at 7-11, my Mom worked at a daycare that would keep us at a discount, and we saved money to put him through college, then medical school, and today everyone in my family who works (which excludes my mother) makes well in excess of the Rancho Mirage average wage. Why? Ass-busting and no excuses.

There are two kinds of people in the world: the kind that gets things done, and the kind that makes excuses why they don't get things done.
Fucking racist piece of shit. I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6942

Dersmikner wrote:

Blacks are 12% of the population and commit 80% of the violent crimes.
Statistics, they don't mean anything. The fact of the matter is that the majority of crimes are committed by inner city residents, and the majority of residents in an inner city is often black or another minority. This is in no means evidence that blacks are criminals. Racist pig.
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|7119|Colorado
How is he racist for posting stats? I would have liked a source to back his numbers up though. For all you guys know he could be black himself.
Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6650

jonsimon wrote:

Dersmikner wrote:

Blacks are 12% of the population and commit 80% of the violent crimes.
Statistics, they don't mean anything. The fact of the matter is that the majority of crimes are committed by inner city residents, and the majority of residents in an inner city is often black or another minority. This is in no means evidence that blacks are criminals. Racist pig.
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7149|Little Rock, Arkansas

TrollmeaT wrote:

How is he racist for posting stats? I would have liked a source to back his numbers up though. For all you guys know he could be black himself.
Data from single victim/single offender incidents showed that 92.6 percent of black victims were murdered by black offenders, and 84.8 percent of white victims were murdered by white offenders.

Broken down within the reported data:

https://mattkennett.com/bbna/images/lol/crime-data-1.jpg

Concerning known murder offenders, 89.9 percent were males; 52.6 percent were black.


Cameron, you just pulled a Sharpton/Jackson. When confronted by data you don't like, you played the race card and dismissed the data, and attacked the source.

Do better. I know you can, I've seen it too many times.
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6945|Texas
If you don't bow before the altar of a lie you're a racist?

Hey, if statistics obtained in the writing of the book "The Bell Curve" weren't faked, then Hassidic Jews are smarter than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants, by a long shot, on average. I think they're something like 10 to 12 IQ points higher than your average American honky.

Does pointing that out make me a self-loathing racist?

Facts are what they are, facts. Sometimes they are nasty and unfortunate and don't paint a rosy picture. They are still however, facts.

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