Pages: 1 2

 

2007-06-13 14:59:16
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7079|Sin City

So I'm sitting here on the computer with what appears to be a marathon of Astronomy shows on The Discovery Science Channel playing in the background. They are talking about the big bang. My questions (to which they don't yet have an answer) are:

What caused it? What "banged" in the first place? What was there before it all happened? I mean, without space they say there can be no time. They are also talking about how it expanded faster than the speed of light in the beginning. Isn't that impossible? And, if you could somehow pause the expansion of the universe when it was say, only 1 million miles wide, what would be just on the other side of it as it is expanding? Thinking about this shit will give you a headache....
2007-06-13 15:01:21
XanKrieger
iLurk
+60|7104|South West England
Usualy when the big bang theory is discussed, it covers the actual expansion + expansion theories of the universe, but your right, the things they often dont go over sadley will give you a nasty mind fuck if you think on it
2007-06-13 15:02:01
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7001
It was God farting. There was actually some follow-through. It was a bit of a mess to be honest.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-06-13 15:02:55)

2007-06-13 15:03:03
liquidat0r
wtf.
+2,223|7073|UK
In answer to your question: They don't know what was where and when before The Big Bang.

However, I understand that they are using some sort of Particle Accelerator to simulate The Big Bang on a miniature scale.
2007-06-13 15:03:05
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7193|The United Center
I could actually explain most of that, but it's a hell of a lot of typing.

The only thing I can't explain is the big bang itself.  The way I see it...first there was nothing...that nothing exploded.

Without space there can be no time - true.  Although even with space, it's possible that there may also not be time.

Objects can move faster than the speed of light.  It's all perspective.  The object itself may not be moving faster than the speed of light, but by taking "shortcuts" in space, it would appear to an outside observer that it is past the speed of light.

Don't think of the edge of the universe as an edge...think of it more like a bumper.  If there's no space to move into, how could you get there?  There's just nothing there.  As the universe nears the "edge" and thins out, you would be pushed back from whence you came.
2007-06-13 15:03:39
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7079|Sin City

CameronPoe wrote:

It was God farting. There was actually some follow-through. It was a bit of a mess to be honest.
Wasn't that in an episode of Family Guy?
2007-06-13 15:04:01
trippy982
Member
+34|6844
Since when has an explosion every create something rather than destroy something that has already existed?
2007-06-13 15:04:35
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6625
Thats the problem, no one really knows. Just think about what we knew 200 years ago compared to what we know now. We are infants as far as technology and knowledge. Who really knows that the speed of light is the fastest speed....maybe a thousand years from now, we will look like ignorant monkeys because we didnt know this or that. Its a lot to think about as far is what is "beyond"....maybe no one will ever no for sure.
2007-06-13 15:05:47
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6914

D6717C wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

It was God farting. There was actually some follow-through. It was a bit of a mess to be honest.
Wasn't that in an episode of Family Guy?
Yeah but in FG he lite it on fire.
2007-06-13 15:06:11
liquidat0r
wtf.
+2,223|7073|UK

trippy982 wrote:

Since when has an explosion every create something rather than destroy something that has already existed?
You know the bits of rubble that fly out when you blow something up? Imagine those as Galaxies and the bits of dust as starts and planets.
2007-06-13 15:06:24
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7193|The United Center

trippy982 wrote:

Since when has an explosion every create something rather than destroy something that has already existed?
Actually it does neither.  Matter and energy don't disappear...they change form.
2007-06-13 15:06:53
XanKrieger
iLurk
+60|7104|South West England

trippy982 wrote:

Since when has an explosion every create something rather than destroy something that has already existed?
Well according the big bang theory, the actual explosion more of less, caused a shockwave of expansion, followed by the various elements and materials that were blown apart later formed worlds and the bodies in space as we know them today.

However, its not my strongest subject, please feel free to correct me
2007-06-13 15:09:24
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7153|67.222.138.85
Mmmm, well to start off with, the big bang is still a theory. (though has a lot backing it up)

You cannot predict what happened before the big bang with physics as we know it by definition. At any time before the big bang our physics breaks down completely, so the conditions during this period cannot even be guessed at.

The universe expanding faster than the speed of light does not actually break causality because what is going faster than the speed of light? Not a particle, more like the fabric of the universe. Imagining what is just beyond ct is impossible, we cannot communicate in any way what is beyond that sphere around us and again goes back to our physics breaks down at this point.
2007-06-13 15:09:28
trippy982
Member
+34|6844
So, which big bang theory are we talking about?  The one where nothing existed, abolsutely nothing and all of a sudden a huge explosion known as the big bang occured and now matter existed to form planets and whatnot.

Or there was already atoms, matter, particles, etc already existed, then an explosion some how occured which fuses all the particles, matter, dust together to form planets, stars, etc?
2007-06-13 15:09:38
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7079|Sin City

ThomasMorgan wrote:

I could actually explain most of that, but it's a hell of a lot of typing.

The only thing I can't explain is the big bang itself.  The way I see it...first there was nothing...that nothing exploded.

Without space there can be no time - true.  Although even with space, it's possible that there may also not be time.

Objects can move faster than the speed of light.  It's all perspective.  The object itself may not be moving faster than the speed of light, but by taking "shortcuts" in space, it would appear to an outside observer that it is past the speed of light.

Don't think of the edge of the universe as an edge...think of it more like a bumper.  If there's no space to move into, how could you get there?  There's just nothing there.  As the universe nears the "edge" and thins out, you would be pushed back from whence you came.
Yes, that seems to be the biggest question. What caused it? Besides God farting of course (thanks Cam). I read that the widly accepted theory was that the Universe slowly stops expanding as gravity works it's magic, and finally "implodes" in on itself to possibly start the whole process over. Now however, they say that it is accelerating because of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, which would possibly cause the expansion to increase/never stop.
2007-06-13 15:10:30
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7153|67.222.138.85

ThomasMorgan wrote:

trippy982 wrote:

Since when has an explosion every create something rather than destroy something that has already existed?
Actually it does neither.  Matter and energy don't disappear...they change form.
Unless you're talking particles/antiparticles.
2007-06-13 15:11:25
liquidat0r
wtf.
+2,223|7073|UK
For anyone that's interested: Quite a lot of understanding is hoped to be gained from the expiremnts that will be conducted when the Large Hadron Collider, in Geneva, is completed. They are planning to find out whether the "Higgs boson, (particle)" exists and thus move closer to completing the Standard Model.
2007-06-13 15:13:17
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7079|Sin City

trippy982 wrote:

So, which big bang theory are we talking about?  The one where nothing existed, abolsutely nothing and all of a sudden a huge explosion known as the big bang occured and now matter existed to form planets and whatnot.

Or there was already atoms, matter, particles, etc already existed, then an explosion some how occured which fuses all the particles, matter, dust together to form planets, stars, etc?
They believe that all the matter in the Universe was compressed into a size smaller than an atom. This would tend to make you think that the Universe started out similar to a giant black hole, what with all that matter in such a dense form. Which again makes me ask, how would it be possible to explode and expand under such immense gravity? Or would gravity not have existed due to there being no universe for it to propogate in?
2007-06-13 15:13:34
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7193|The United Center

D6717C wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

I could actually explain most of that, but it's a hell of a lot of typing.

The only thing I can't explain is the big bang itself.  The way I see it...first there was nothing...that nothing exploded.

Without space there can be no time - true.  Although even with space, it's possible that there may also not be time.

Objects can move faster than the speed of light.  It's all perspective.  The object itself may not be moving faster than the speed of light, but by taking "shortcuts" in space, it would appear to an outside observer that it is past the speed of light.

Don't think of the edge of the universe as an edge...think of it more like a bumper.  If there's no space to move into, how could you get there?  There's just nothing there.  As the universe nears the "edge" and thins out, you would be pushed back from whence you came.
Yes, that seems to be the biggest question. What caused it? Besides God farting of course (thanks Cam). I read that the widly accepted theory was that the Universe slowly stops expanding as gravity works it's magic, and finally "implodes" in on itself to possibly start the whole process over. Now however, they say that it is accelerating because of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, which would possibly cause the expansion to increase/never stop.
Actually, the proof that the universe is slowing down...is the same proof that it is continuing to expand.

If you've ever seen Apollo13, there's a good example in that.  When the craft uses the moon's gravity to pick up speed and slingshot its way around the moon, its possible that the same is true of matter in the universe.  Although there is gravity pulling everything back to its origin (like the spacecraft to earth), it's possible that matter is using its own gravity to continue moving outward from the source.
2007-06-13 15:14:48
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7193|The United Center

D6717C wrote:

trippy982 wrote:

So, which big bang theory are we talking about?  The one where nothing existed, abolsutely nothing and all of a sudden a huge explosion known as the big bang occured and now matter existed to form planets and whatnot.

Or there was already atoms, matter, particles, etc already existed, then an explosion some how occured which fuses all the particles, matter, dust together to form planets, stars, etc?
They believe that all the matter in the Universe was compressed into a size smaller than an atom. This would tend to make you think that the Universe started out similar to a giant black hole, what with all that matter in such a dense form. Which again makes me ask, how would it be possible to explode and expand under such immense gravity? Or would gravity not have existed due to there being no universe for it to propogate in?
If that's the theory we're using, then gravity is involved, but think of how incredibly unstable that infinitely small point in space would be.
2007-06-13 15:16:34
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7153|67.222.138.85

D6717C wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

I could actually explain most of that, but it's a hell of a lot of typing.

The only thing I can't explain is the big bang itself.  The way I see it...first there was nothing...that nothing exploded.

Without space there can be no time - true.  Although even with space, it's possible that there may also not be time.

Objects can move faster than the speed of light.  It's all perspective.  The object itself may not be moving faster than the speed of light, but by taking "shortcuts" in space, it would appear to an outside observer that it is past the speed of light.

Don't think of the edge of the universe as an edge...think of it more like a bumper.  If there's no space to move into, how could you get there?  There's just nothing there.  As the universe nears the "edge" and thins out, you would be pushed back from whence you came.
Yes, that seems to be the biggest question. What caused it? Besides God farting of course (thanks Cam). I read that the widly accepted theory was that the Universe slowly stops expanding as gravity works it's magic, and finally "implodes" in on itself to possibly start the whole process over. Now however, they say that it is accelerating because of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, which would possibly cause the expansion to increase/never stop.
The universe is expanding and is confirmed to be accelerating, and most theories point to Dark Energy/Matter to the cause of this expansion.

There are different possibilities of the universe depending on the density of the universe as k. If k > 1 then there is enough matter in the universe for the expansion to eventually slow down, end, and then gravity will pull everything back together in a "Big Crunch". If k = 0 then we are in a "flat" universe that essentially will stop expanding but will not contract, staying the same size. Some measurements made have shown the numbers make the universe very attractively close to a flat universe. If k < 1 then there is not enough matter in the universe to stop the expansion, and we will spin outward into oblivion forever.
2007-06-13 15:19:43
Twist
Too old to be doing this sh*t
+103|6969|Little blue planet, milky way
Problem with the big bang theory, is that we do not yet have explanations for everything a model of the universe would need to encompass for the model to hold true. In essense, human understanding of the making of the universe is limited by human understanding of physics (hence we have adapted and refined our understanding through newton, heisenberg, einstein etc.)
An explanation is still a VERY long way off, but to say that there was "nothing" before the big bang, is simply nothing as we currently understand the concept. What caused it well.... That's also still unexplained, how the universe expanded faster in the beginning than it does now (well, that's just a theory, albeit a popular one), doesn't mean that it's impossible, it just means that the amount of mass changed somewhere along the way as the universe expanded, thus slowing down, as per current thinking of the understanding of the speed of light. It's rather complicated.

The best way to explain it is to simply say that our understanding of the event is as of yet not sufficent to satisfactorily explain the processes that took place 15 billion years ago (or 13 if you believe in a contantly expanding universe).
2007-06-13 15:22:00
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7153|67.222.138.85

liquidat0r wrote:

For anyone that's interested: Quite a lot of understanding is hoped to be gained from the expiremnts that will be conducted when the Large Hadron Collider, in Geneva, is completed. They are planning to find out whether the "Higgs boson, (particle)" exists and thus move closer to completing the Standard Model.
Too bad they canceled the Superconducting Super Collider, supposed to be 54 miles around. It should have been finished by now too.
2007-06-13 15:24:18
D6717C
Anger is a gift
+174|7079|Sin City

ThomasMorgan wrote:

D6717C wrote:

trippy982 wrote:

So, which big bang theory are we talking about?  The one where nothing existed, abolsutely nothing and all of a sudden a huge explosion known as the big bang occured and now matter existed to form planets and whatnot.

Or there was already atoms, matter, particles, etc already existed, then an explosion some how occured which fuses all the particles, matter, dust together to form planets, stars, etc?
They believe that all the matter in the Universe was compressed into a size smaller than an atom. This would tend to make you think that the Universe started out similar to a giant black hole, what with all that matter in such a dense form. Which again makes me ask, how would it be possible to explode and expand under such immense gravity? Or would gravity not have existed due to there being no universe for it to propogate in?
If that's the theory we're using, then gravity is involved, but think of how incredibly unstable that infinitely small point in space would be.
True, and what if it was existing in the form of energy instead of matter? Would it still have such tremendous gravity? We should all go get hammered in a bar while trying to figure this out.
2007-06-13 15:37:57
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7047|132 and Bush

We as humans can not comprehend that time is not linear. Time surrounds us in every direction. We (as matter) are just folds in that dimension. Investigate things like Space time, and string theory. I'll leave the rest up to the more ambitious guys like Bertser and topal63 to clean up my butchered explanation . I do understand the concept though.
Xbone Stormsurgezz

 

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