Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6994|San Diego, CA, USA
Why do immigrants (non-citizens who naturalize), in the United States vote 80% Democrat? 7% Bush?  I would think that most non-citizens who naturalize would traditional values?  Isn't that what the Republicans stand for? 

I mean Hillary Clinton is actually supporting partial-birth abortions - heck every Democrat supports state-sponsored abortions including Rudy Guliani on the Republican side.
Wreckognize
Member
+294|6930
Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|7094|Washington DC

The reputation of the Democrats is that they are advocates for the disadvantaged (i.e. immigrants and others) ... and the Republicans are advocates for the rich (i.e. the establishment).

The reality is that both political parties are advocates for the rich and only do enough for the disadvantaged to temper lower class rioting.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6995|CH/BR - in UK

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
exactly what I was thinking
Republicans have the reputation of wanting the immigrants out of the country...

-konfusion
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7207

konfusion wrote:

Republicans have the reputation of wanting the immigrants out of the country...

-konfusion
God forbid they want the law enforced.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6850|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Why do immigrants (non-citizens who naturalize), in the United States vote 80% Democrat? 7% Bush?  I would think that most non-citizens who naturalize would traditional values?  Isn't that what the Republicans stand for? 

I mean Hillary Clinton is actually supporting partial-birth abortions - heck every Democrat supports state-sponsored abortions including Rudy Guliani on the Republican side.
Some immigrant groups are highly Republican.  Cuban-Americans are some of the most loyal Republican voters.

It really depends on the group.  Cubans tend to be VERY socially conservative because of Catholicism.  Mexicans are also predominantly Catholic, but they don't tend to be as conservative.  They also tend to be put off by the conservatives that are strict about immigration policy and border security.

Some Asians also vote Republican often.  Many Korean-Americans tend to be conservative because of their familial connections to the Korean War.  Republicans were seen as the face of American policy in the defense of what would become the Republic of South Korea, mostly because right-wingers were more anti-Communist than their liberal rivals here. As a side note, my best friend is Korean and from a family that remembers the war.  He's right of center in his politics, probably in large part due to his parents' conservatism.

A more recent reason for the conservative Korean connection is that young liberals in South Korea tend to be the ones that push harder for the withdrawal of American forces there, while the conservative older generations in Korea still remember the war and the danger that North Korea truly represents to them.  As a result, most of the Korean families that move here tend to be pro-American and conservative already.  Afterall, what incentive is there to move to America if you're a liberal Korean that despises the presence of American soldiers in your native country?

As for other groups, many Islamic immigrants tend to be socially conservative, but they still often vote Democratic, because Republicans can appear to be very anti-Islamic in some of their rhetoric regarding the War on Terror.  I'm not going to comment on whether or not these assumptions are justified, but there's no doubt that this perception certainly contributes to their support of the Democrats.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6994|San Diego, CA, USA
Good summary, but most of the new immigrants are Hispanic.  And not only are they Hispanic more than 50% of them do not have the equivalent of a high school diploma according to the Heritage Foundation.

Democrats, historically, have been the party of entitlements (generally).  Could this be a case where people 'vote themselves a paycheck'?
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7089
statistics are stupid.  my mom votes republican everytime and shes an immigrant.
imortal
Member
+240|7110|Austin, TX

konfusion wrote:

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
exactly what I was thinking
Republicans have the reputation of wanting the immigrants out of the country...

-konfusion
Nope, afraid that is incorrect.  Simply prefer that the people immigrating follow our laws, including the method of immigration.  If a person is willing to enter the country illegally, then they have less respect for the laws of the United States, and may be more likely to break other laws. 
If you enter the country legally, and jump through all the hoops our goverment puts up to obtain citizenship, congrats and welcome!  Our country is made stronger by imigrants such as these.  In fact, my fiance is a first generation American.

And yes, I hold American businessmen equally respnsible for hiring them.

My anger is that the laws are not being enforced.  Either enforce the laws or CHANGE the laws.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6994|San Diego, CA, USA
imortal, I think konfusion was stating the "perception" not the "reality".  See the "perception" is that Republican are not for immigration as pointed out by konfusion, but what you stated was fact that Republicans are all for legal immigration.


Perception vs. Reality...right now the Republicans are failing on the Perception front.
RAVAGE
Member
+4|6619|México City, México.

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6850|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Good summary, but most of the new immigrants are Hispanic.  And not only are they Hispanic more than 50% of them do not have the equivalent of a high school diploma according to the Heritage Foundation.

Democrats, historically, have been the party of entitlements (generally).  Could this be a case where people 'vote themselves a paycheck'?
That's quite possible, but then again, Bush isn't exactly against amnesty and entitlement either.  Many neoconservatives tend to be liberal on immigration policy, mostly because many of them are employers of illegals.

So, to put it bluntly, as long as this strain of neocons dominates the Republican party, those who seek entitlement can't lose either way.
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7151

konfusion wrote:

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
exactly what I was thinking
Republicans have the reputation of wanting the immigrants out of the country...

-konfusion
Thanks to the highly liberalized media, this is what many people believe.  MSNBC for example, calles illegal alians "immigrants".  They are not "immigrants".  They are illegal immigrants.  Calling them "immigrants" or "migrants"  suggests that people opposed to illegal immigration are opposed to all immigration.  Republicans are not opposed to immigration, just illegal immigration.  This is because, among other things, IT IS ILLEGAL.

Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2007-06-16 20:22:38)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6850|North Carolina

imortal wrote:

konfusion wrote:

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
exactly what I was thinking
Republicans have the reputation of wanting the immigrants out of the country...

-konfusion
Nope, afraid that is incorrect.  Simply prefer that the people immigrating follow our laws, including the method of immigration.  If a person is willing to enter the country illegally, then they have less respect for the laws of the United States, and may be more likely to break other laws. 
If you enter the country legally, and jump through all the hoops our goverment puts up to obtain citizenship, congrats and welcome!  Our country is made stronger by imigrants such as these.  In fact, my fiance is a first generation American.

And yes, I hold American businessmen equally respnsible for hiring them.

My anger is that the laws are not being enforced.  Either enforce the laws or CHANGE the laws.
Plenty of Democrats also want immigrants to respect our laws.  Unfortunately, both parties are dominated by people who care more about following naive idealism or greed (so that they can hire the cheapest people possible under the table) than the law.

So, again...  Whether they vote Democrat or Republican, they can't lose....   but taxpayers like you and me do....
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7151

Harmor wrote:

imortal, I think konfusion was stating the "perception" not the "reality".  See the "perception" is that Republican are not for immigration as pointed out by konfusion, but what you stated was fact that Republicans are all for legal immigration.


Perception vs. Reality...right now the Republicans are failing on the Perception front.
No, the Democrats are just succeeding on the "false perception" front.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6850|North Carolina

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Harmor wrote:

imortal, I think konfusion was stating the "perception" not the "reality".  See the "perception" is that Republican are not for immigration as pointed out by konfusion, but what you stated was fact that Republicans are all for legal immigration.


Perception vs. Reality...right now the Republicans are failing on the Perception front.
No, the Democrats are just succeeding on the "false perception" front.
...or perhaps, people are more wary of being lied to by the neocons than the Democrats.  I think people lost a lot of their faith in the Republican party after seeing what a sham this whole Iraq thing has been.

Granted, I'm not saying the Democrats are particularly more trustworthy.  They just haven't fucked up quite as much lately.  Give it time....
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6994|San Diego, CA, USA

Turquoise wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Harmor wrote:

imortal, I think konfusion was stating the "perception" not the "reality".  See the "perception" is that Republican are not for immigration as pointed out by konfusion, but what you stated was fact that Republicans are all for legal immigration.


Perception vs. Reality...right now the Republicans are failing on the Perception front.
No, the Democrats are just succeeding on the "false perception" front.
...or perhaps, people are more wary of being lied to by the neocons than the Democrats.  I think people lost a lot of their faith in the Republican party after seeing what a sham this whole Iraq thing has been.

Granted, I'm not saying the Democrats are particularly more trustworthy.  They just haven't fucked up quite as much lately.  Give it time....
The Democrats are doing pretty well so far.  As for the immigrants I think we can get 'cheap labor' to satisfy agra-business by doing the following:

1.  Allow low-security inmates the CHOICE to work in the fields (i.e. picking lettus), getting paid $10/hour.
2.  60 cents of every dollar that the agra-business pays goes to the state to reemburse the cost of the inmate being jailed.
3.  The rest the inmate can use (or save), to make his life better in prison.
4.  The time they work will reduce their sentence in jail for 'good behavior'.


Since we have ALOT of inmates we can solve our shortage of illegal immigrants without occuring additional money that poor illegal immigrants cost the state (according to the Heritage Foundation the average illegal immigrant uses $15,000/year in services, but only pays $1,500 in taxes - mostly in sales tax since they don't pay payroll, Social Security or Medicare taxes).

https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4003/1497kn5.jpg
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6850|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:


No, the Democrats are just succeeding on the "false perception" front.
...or perhaps, people are more wary of being lied to by the neocons than the Democrats.  I think people lost a lot of their faith in the Republican party after seeing what a sham this whole Iraq thing has been.

Granted, I'm not saying the Democrats are particularly more trustworthy.  They just haven't fucked up quite as much lately.  Give it time....
The Democrats are doing pretty well so far.  As for the immigrants I think we can get 'cheap labor' to satisfy agra-business by doing the following:

1.  Allow low-security inmates the CHOICE to work in the fields (i.e. picking lettus), getting paid $10/hour.
2.  60 cents of every dollar that the agra-business pays goes to the state to reemburse the cost of the inmate being jailed.
3.  The rest the inmate can use (or save), to make his life better in prison.
4.  The time they work will reduce their sentence in jail for 'good behavior'.


Since we have ALOT of inmates we can solve our shortage of illegal immigrants without occuring additional money that poor illegal immigrants cost the state (according to the Heritage Foundation the average illegal immigrant uses $15,000/year in services, but only pays $1,500 in taxes - mostly in sales tax since they don't pay payroll, Social Security or Medicare taxes).

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4003/1497kn5.jpg
I think the problem is that both sides don't care about border security.  Democrats are naively supporting the illegals with the hope that they'll eventually become Democratic voters.  Republicans are looking the other way as they profit from cheap labor.

So, when it comes to immigration, I respect neither party.

As for the inmates thing, I'd say we should decriminalize marijuana and end mandatory sentences for most drug offenders.  I'd much rather let someone out early for drug offenses than for things like murder and rape.

Our prison system is another travesty in and of itself, but that's a discussion for another thread.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7217|PNW

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
Which is why Lincoln was a Republican lolz...but really. That's a stupid generalization.
RECONDO67
Member
+60|7081|miami FL

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
yup
CoronadoSEAL
pics or it didn't happen
+207|6963|USA
i think it is more about personal finance than anything else; immigrants tend to be poor.
Master*
Banned
+416|6940|United States
I thought if you were naturalized that means you are a citizen no matter what.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization

Last edited by Masterstyle (2007-06-17 18:57:16)

The_Mac
Member
+96|6670

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
Huh, tell that to Abe Lincoln, eh?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6850|North Carolina

The_Mac wrote:

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
Huh, tell that to Abe Lincoln, eh?
Just a side note here, but Lincoln was a social liberal.  I really doubt someone like Jesse Helms would have supported the abolition of slavery had he lived back then.
The_Mac
Member
+96|6670

Turquoise wrote:

The_Mac wrote:

Obey_m0rph3us wrote:

Because Republicans also stand for xenophobia and racism.  Duh.
Huh, tell that to Abe Lincoln, eh?
Just a side note here, but Lincoln was a social liberal.
He said Republican...nothing about Conservatives.

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