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2007-06-18 22:11:51
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6992|San Diego, CA, USA
We already know that the Democrats are going to let the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 expire. 

We know that the Democrats are going to propose an increase in income tax rates of 4.5% for everyone - the top marginal rate will go from 35% to 39.5%.  When the Bush Tax cuts expire in 2010 they will go up again to 44.5%.

Other than Mike Gravel, Democratic Presidential canidate who is advocating abolishing income taxes and replacing with a national sales tax, all the other Democrat presidential canidates are proposing pretty much what I detailed above.

Democrats are limiting Republican earmarks, which is actually saving billions.




Will increasing taxes actually increase revenue to the government?

Will increasing taxes slow down the economy enough for us to worry?

Will unemployment go up?

With the congress controlled by a party opposite than the president curtail spending as more and more bills are vetoed?
2007-06-18 22:14:04
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6971|Middle of nowhere, California
yup....
2007-06-18 22:15:16
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7150
2007-06-18 23:09:43
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7212
Whats wrong with a tax increase?

the USA needs to invest in its people...not billion dollar warplanes, aid to Israel etc

I live in one of the most taxed countries in the world and for that I get free healthcare, good unemployment benefits (if required), great road systems, etc
2007-06-18 23:12:21
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6992|San Diego, CA, USA

BN wrote:

Whats wrong with a tax increase?

the USA needs to invest in its people...not billion dollar warplanes, aid to Israel etc

I live in one of the most taxed countries in the world and for that I get free healthcare, good unemployment benefits (if required), great road systems, etc
You are probabaly correct.  I mean the Government knows how to spend your money better than we do.  Healthcare is also better in countries that have free healthcare like Cuba and Canada.

In France, for example you only have a 35 hour work week...must be nice.
2007-06-18 23:19:04
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7119|Canberra, AUS

Harmor wrote:

BN wrote:

Whats wrong with a tax increase?

the USA needs to invest in its people...not billion dollar warplanes, aid to Israel etc

I live in one of the most taxed countries in the world and for that I get free healthcare, good unemployment benefits (if required), great road systems, etc
You are probabaly correct.  I mean the Government knows how to spend your money better than we do.  Healthcare is also better in countries that have free healthcare like Cuba and Canada.

In France, for example you only have a 35 hour work week...must be nice.
You haven't actually adressed his point OR answered his comments...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-06-18 23:23:46
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6831

Harmor wrote:

In France, for example you only have a 35 hour work week...must be nice.
Do you ever consider the other side of your arguments? I mean seriously, a 35 hour work week can't have any downsides can it?
2007-06-18 23:25:34
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6992|San Diego, CA, USA

Commie Killer wrote:

Harmor wrote:

In France, for example you only have a 35 hour work week...must be nice.
Do you ever consider the other side of your arguments? I mean seriously, a 35 hour work week can't have any downsides can it?
I'm sure the French can do the work someone in the United States takes 40 hours to do in just 35 - they are that productive.
2007-06-18 23:41:37
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6801|CA, USA
tax increases on people making > $200k does not only mean cigar chomping billionaires but small business people, mom&pop stores, your lawn service, etc.  These guys will be impacted so they might not hire a few extra people to work for them, leading to unemployment.  this unemployment leads to need for more unemployment benefits and therefore more taxes. 

However, if we reverse the argument, by reducing slightly the taxes (not only on high wage earners but families of four and what not), this means that the day to day economy will see more money floating around and changing hands.  You will have more money for your business to hire on a few extra guys/gals.  This gives them money to spend at the grocery which by the way employs people as well, etc.  Of course the govt will get it's share in terms of sales taxes but these are often state/local taxes which go to improve your direct community.  i see this as a better alternative, but that's just me.

Healthcare...why is it so friggin' expensive in the first place?  Could it be frivolous lawsuits?  These days lawyers seem to grow on trees and like to sue pharmaceutical companies because of the deep-pockets argument.  it's easier to settle than get into long drawn out cases.  As such, who foots the bill?  you and i do.  if we have some sort of tort limit on the amount of these suits, i should think it would help things.  Also, it costs an arm and a leg to get meds through FDA approval so this adds to the cost as well.  I believe more in a free market to spur innovation and price competition than centralized medical care.  I'm already in an HMO and it's lame as hell.  i rarely see a doctor anyway because i take care of myself, but when i'm near death and do go to see him, i get the nurse practitioner who tells me to rub scented oils on my arm and such.  ridiculous.

investing in the future should be done through a national push to increase $$$ to education and in my opinion specifically targeted towards math and science.  Yeah i'm an engineer and am a bit biased.  i see tons of resumes of people from india, china, pakistan, blah blah bah all day long.  i rarely see one from the US (resident).  Why don't we see more home-grown talent?  i think the genes are there, but the desire?

oh...investing in the billion dollar airplane does indeed generate jobs in high tech.  Personally i wish i knew more about robotics so i could create a better IED detector to save lives.  Defense development is not all bad.  A lot of tech developed during wartime was later used in peacetime to save lives and improve our quality of life.  it's not like innovation and ideas are thrown away.

Actually, a long time ago in my high school chem class, my teacher posed the question why should we spend billions of dollars on a supercollider (think atom smasher).  Little discoveries along the way toward the goal sometimes end up leading to cures to diseases and other unexpected consequences (for the good).  So is it worth it to invest in such things?  maybe.
2007-06-18 23:44:55
Superslim
BF2s Frat Brother
+211|7136|Calgary

Harmor wrote:

BN wrote:

Whats wrong with a tax increase?

the USA needs to invest in its people...not billion dollar warplanes, aid to Israel etc

I live in one of the most taxed countries in the world and for that I get free healthcare, good unemployment benefits (if required), great road systems, etc
You are probabaly correct.  I mean the Government knows how to spend your money better than we do.  Healthcare is also better in countries that have free healthcare like Cuba and Canada.

In France, for example you only have a 35 hour work week...must be nice.
PS  Health care in Canada SUCKS!!!!  I'd rather pay for it and get half decent healthcare. Nothing like waiting in an emergency room for 9 hrs with a sick kid. And its NOT free, we pay healthcare premiums.
2007-06-18 23:45:50
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6801|CA, USA

Harmor wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

Harmor wrote:

In France, for example you only have a 35 hour work week...must be nice.
Do you ever consider the other side of your arguments? I mean seriously, a 35 hour work week can't have any downsides can it?
I'm sure the French can do the work someone in the United States takes 40 hours to do in just 35 - they are that productive.
could this be the reason why some countries innovate and are head and shoulders more successful than others?  could it be due to hard work by putting the extra hours in or figuring out how a solution can work instead of debating it to death.  Sometimes actions speak louder than 35 hours per week and jobs for life. 

if i had a job for life, i'm sure as hell not going to work hard.  might be one reason communism fails after a while.
2007-06-18 23:49:04
=DBD=TITAN126
Member
+5|7227

Harmor wrote:

BN wrote:

Whats wrong with a tax increase?

the USA needs to invest in its people...not billion dollar warplanes, aid to Israel etc

I live in one of the most taxed countries in the world and for that I get free healthcare, good unemployment benefits (if required), great road systems, etc
You are probabaly correct.  I mean the Government knows how to spend your money better than we do.  Healthcare is also better in countries that have free healthcare like Cuba and Canada.
You have obviously never closely examined the Canadian healthcare system. It sucks...and it's not free, it's built into taxes.
2007-06-19 02:13:50
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7216|PNW

How much are taxes going to go up when any party is in power?
2007-06-19 02:14:56
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7210|UK
Is the US stupid for having taxes so far below what it can really afford?

The answer to that is YES.
2007-06-19 02:43:41
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6999
10%. Maybe 20%.
2007-06-19 02:43:51
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7165|Sydney, Australia
Have a fucking cry. The top rate in Australia is about 45% (it used to be more, 49%). If you don't want the tax rates then move to Singapore - the top rate is only 25%.


Mcminty.
2007-06-19 02:53:44
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7115|UK

mcminty wrote:

Have a fucking cry. The top rate in Australia is about 45% (it used to be more, 49%). If you don't want the tax rates then move to Singapore - the top rate is only 25%.


Mcminty.
I got a mate who is a Director of Lloyd's of London - Asia Division based in Singapore.

That bastard is earning top wack and i pay more friggin taxes!
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2007-06-19 03:20:31
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6999

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

tax increases on people making > $200k does not only mean cigar chomping billionaires but small business people, mom&pop stores, your lawn service, etc.  These guys will be impacted so they might not hire a few extra people to work for them, leading to unemployment.  this unemployment leads to need for more unemployment benefits and therefore more taxes.
Cry me a river. Those guys are more interested in employing people in shit poor countries in the back of beyond. Outsourcing FTW.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-06-19 03:21:01)

2007-06-19 04:12:39
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7165|Sydney, Australia

m3thod wrote:

mcminty wrote:

Have a fucking cry. The top rate in Australia is about 45% (it used to be more, 49%). If you don't want the tax rates then move to Singapore - the top rate is only 25%.
I got a mate who is a Director of Lloyd's of London - Asia Division based in Singapore.

That bastard is earning top wack and i pay more friggin taxes!
Lucky bastard. I also read that Singapore doesn't charge tax on foreign income. ie, if you own (lots) property overseas and get rent from it, Singapore will not charge any tax on what you make.

...I might move to Singapore one day.
2007-06-19 04:27:17
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7025|SE London

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

tax increases on people making > $200k does not only mean cigar chomping billionaires but small business people, mom&pop stores, your lawn service, etc.  These guys will be impacted so they might not hire a few extra people to work for them, leading to unemployment.  this unemployment leads to need for more unemployment benefits and therefore more taxes.
I think you'll find those costs come out of business taxes, not personal income taxes. Low business taxes are good and increase productivity and stimulate the economy. Low income taxes make people vote for you and make people spend more money (which does have a positive effect on the economy if the public act responsibly). Unfortunately people in the US are spending too much money and the average level of debt is rising, increasing taxes and interest rates would in theory curtail this, whilst having only a relatively minor impact on the economy.

If the Democrats are snesible they will work on increasing revenue from businesses by making it easier for them to be profitable, rather than taxing them and they will raise income taxes a modest amount, increasing to quite a large amount for higher earners who can afford it. This would increase tax revenues and allow the US to start chipping away at a huge pile of national debt and push the people to stop borrowing so much money for everything - If it's not a house and you need to borrow money for it that you can't pay off in 6 months, then you can't afford it.
2007-06-19 04:59:50
san4
The Mas
+311|7132|NYC, a place to live
The idea that "we know how to spend out money better than the government does" is irrelevant. The point is that the government can spend money on things ordinary citizens can't. How much do you spend to prevent other people from getting contagious diseases they might give to you? Individuals can't spend money on that, only governments can.

Having businesses deal with health insurance is like a tax on businesses. It is a pain in the ass. In addition to being humane, a national health insurance system can increase economic productivity by freeing businesses from having to deal with that crap. The US will have to invest money to obtain the benefits of national health insurance.

I would not trust the incompetent and politicized Bush Administration to design a national health insurance system but a different administration could do it well enough that it would save the US economy billions.

Also, China owns the US now and it might be nice to buy some of it back.
2007-06-19 05:11:59
motherdear
Member
+25|7095|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)

Harmor wrote:

In France, for example you only have a 35 hour work week...must be nice.
also if they give birth to 3 kids they are allowed not to pay tax, must be nice.

it's one of their plans to take back france again, and getting the birth rate a bit up again hehe.
2007-06-19 05:25:11
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7201|Argentina
Maybe they don't need to raise taxes, they just need to cut the military spending.
2007-06-19 07:36:10
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6801|CA, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

tax increases on people making > $200k does not only mean cigar chomping billionaires but small business people, mom&pop stores, your lawn service, etc.  These guys will be impacted so they might not hire a few extra people to work for them, leading to unemployment.  this unemployment leads to need for more unemployment benefits and therefore more taxes.
Cry me a river. Those guys are more interested in employing people in shit poor countries in the back of beyond. Outsourcing FTW.
wrong.

i don't see sweatshop labor when i go to the local shoe store, independent bank, book store, grocery, hardware store, etc.

perhaps you are blinded by hate as soon as i said the word billionaire.  chill out dude.
2007-06-19 07:49:49
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7180|Salt Lake City

We need an overhaul of the tax code before any tax increases/decreases will have any real benefit to this country.  There are so many loopholes in the tax code that it is ridiculous.  Don't kid yourself if you think those in the upper income brackets pay anywhere near the 35-40% mark on taxes.  By the time their accountants and CPAs get done, their tax liability is down into the 18-20% range.

 

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