san4
The Mas
+311|7132|NYC, a place to live
Cheap (and crappy) health insurance costs businesses more in the long run because employees get sick more often. But businesses still provide cheap & lousy health insurance because they are under intense competitive pressure to generate short-term gains. If the US government provided health insurance for all citizens, people would be healthier and more economically productive. This is what liberalism is all about: everybody makes more money when society invests in people.

New York Times wrote:

June 27, 2007
Scant Drug Benefits Called Costly to Employers
By MILT FREUDENHEIM

Health penny wise, medical pound foolish?

Employers that shift too much of the cost of drugs to workers in their company health plans could wind up losing more than they save, through absenteeism and lost productivity, according to a study by health policy researchers.

The three-year study, to be released today, looked at the medical histories of several thousand workers with a diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis. The condition is a painful and incurable disease of the joints, but patients can keep it at bay by taking a special class of drugs.

The cost, as much as $18,000 a year, can be a big expense for employer health plans. Still, putting too much of the cost burden on the employee can evidently backfire.

Among the 17 employers in the study, conducted by the nonprofit Integrated Benefits Institute, more than half the workers with rheumatoid arthritis were not taking their drugs — in many cases because they considered the out-of-pocket co-payments too high.

As a result, the institute’s study found, the employers incurred $17.2 million in costs from lost productivity, 26 percent more than the estimate of what they would have spent if the workers had taken their arthritis drugs.

The workers’ co-payments were relatively low, averaging $26 for a 30-day supply, indicating a fairly low threshold before out-of-pocket costs prompted workers to forgo medication....

The arthritis study supports and expands on earlier research that looked at employees of Pitney Bowes, the business services company, and the city government of Asheville, N.C. Those studies found improved productivity and lower medical costs after drug co-payments were reduced or eliminated for diabetes, asthma and heart-related problems....
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6891|Chicago, IL
well, your citation refers to arthritis, a longterm, medication intensive, incurable disease, which you cannot expect an employer to pay for, as the cost would be overwhelming, and the patient will never get better.  employer health insurance is geared for acute illnesses and injuries, not chronic conditions
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7005
That's his point.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6939

Bubbalo wrote:

That's his point.
Oh. Snap.
Liberal-Sl@yer
Certified BF2S Asshole
+131|6900|The edge of sanity
I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6939

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
They don't loose if the cost of hiring a replacement is less than the cost of support.
Liberal-Sl@yer
Certified BF2S Asshole
+131|6900|The edge of sanity

jonsimon wrote:

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
They don't loose if the cost of hiring a replacement is less than the cost of support.
Well think about it if they cycle through employes their reputation gets shot to hell and the loose not only work force but buisness as well. Word of mouth spreads like wildfire.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6939

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
They don't loose if the cost of hiring a replacement is less than the cost of support.
Well think about it if they cycle through employes their reputation gets shot to hell and the loose not only work force but buisness as well. Word of mouth spreads like wildfire.
Every business has an amount of turnover.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7212

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
The government needs to provide complete coverage to its citizens
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6891|Chicago, IL

Bubbalo wrote:

That's his point.
businesses are in business to make money, not pay for their employees medical bills.  If there is no foreseeable end to the illness, the employee is no longer profitable, it sounds cruel, but thats how it works.  A company cannot afford to add another $18,000 to the annual cost of an employee.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7005
If you'll actually read the thread, you'll notice that he said nothing about employers providing full healthcare.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6973|Global Command

Bubbalo wrote:

If you'll actually read the thread, you'll notice that he said nothing about employers providing full healthcare.
I'll go active again when you start making threads Lizzard. If they are good.

Last edited by ATG (2007-06-27 19:54:24)

Liberal-Sl@yer
Certified BF2S Asshole
+131|6900|The edge of sanity

ATG wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

If you'll actually read the thread, you'll notice that he said nothing about employers providing full healthcare.
I'll go active again when you start making threads Lizzard. If they are good.
ATG where'd you come from?
spacebandit72
Dead Meat
+121|7174|Michigan
Well, I can see where this is going.
Don't worry your little Liberal heads off, Hilary will fix everyone up... even if it's incrementally.

Just another thing for the government to get their greezy little fingers on. Keep voting our freedoms away.

I think our med system needs an overhaul but I don't want a socialist government along with it.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7045|132 and Bush

Providing that every citizens was a contributer to the system as a whole I would agree. Unfortunately thats not the case and we would be forced to support the weak and the lazy as well. In fact, the need for health care is what motivates a good portion of the population to get off their ass and find employment. A business that provides good benefits is a company that entices employees to work at the best of their ability. "I should do my best, this job enusres that I have medical coverage". Employees will generate quality products/services because of their desire to keep their job. This pays this company back in huge dividends and offsets the cost of providing insurance (Win/win right?).  I would imagine that if Universal "Government" health care was provided to everyone regardless of work status some people would be content with not pursuing gainful employment. Thus creating a situation opposite of the OP's vision.

Edit: There is a lot of grey here and I am speaking in general.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
spacebandit72
Dead Meat
+121|7174|Michigan

Kmarion wrote:

Providing that every citizens was a contributer to the system as a whole I would agree. Unfortunately thats not the case and we would be forced to support the weak and the lazy as well. In fact, the need for health care is what motivates a good portion of the population to get off their ass and find employment. A business that provides good benefits is a company that entices employees to work at the best of their ability. "I should do my best, this job enusres that I have medical coverage". Employees will generate quality products/services because of their desire to keep their job. This pays this company back in huge dividends and offsets the cost of providing insurance (Win/win right?).  I would imagine that if Universal "Government" health care was provided to everyone regardless of work status some people would be content with not pursuing gainful employment. Thus creating a situation opposite of the OP's vision.

Edit: There is a lot of grey here and I am speaking in general.
Well said +1
Volatile
Member
+252|7148|Sextupling in Empire

BN wrote:

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
The government needs to provide complete coverage to its citizens
I would agree with that as long as the government outlaws things that are hazardous to ones health, starting with fatty foods, alchohol, extreme sports, smoking, sex with partners that have not been tested, guns, knives....

Nevermind, I'd rather take the no health insurance gamble instead.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7206

BN wrote:

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
The government needs to provide complete coverage to its citizens
Is that right?  Does Scott Peterson deserve every ounce of health care we can provide?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7045|132 and Bush

usmarine2005 wrote:

BN wrote:

Liberal-Sl@yer wrote:

I think buisness need to offer COMPLETE coverage for thier employes. Im a fan of moderated buisness. They need to help thier employes or else they themeselves loose in the long run.
The government needs to provide complete coverage to its citizens
Is that right?  Does Scott Peterson deserve every ounce of health care we can provide?
And what government provides complete coverage anyways? The United States spends more on healthcare per Captia than any other nation as it is. The first step is to get the cost down. I don't want the most inefficient entity ever created managing anymore of my Healthcare Dollar.

If it works in the UK I have to say congrats. Now start making babies again. But our country is not the same as yours and our citizens are unwilling to accept the same things you do (not good or bad, just different). We are talking about a government providing full coverage for over 300 million citizens (give or take 10 million illegals). Of course everyone wants to see the entire population in America covered by healthcare. But lets be real for a minute. Wanting and getting are two different things.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7005
You do know that more people decreases the cost per person?
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7005

ATG wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

If you'll actually read the thread, you'll notice that he said nothing about employers providing full healthcare.
I'll go active again when you start making threads Lizzard. If they are good.
You mean my comments on 9/11 and America being the primary reason the UN doesn't work weren't up to you standards?



Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7045|132 and Bush

Bubbalo wrote:

You do know that more people decreases the cost per person?
Are you aware of the healthcare cost in America? Per citizen the US government contributes nearly 6k a year. That exceeds any other government backed socialized medical plan. The real problem is the cost... of course thats why you don't have to wait months for simple procedures like MRI's here.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6907|meh-land
the only reason the US healthcare system has problems is because there are so many illegals sucking all the hospitals dry, so they ahve to charge more and close down their southern hospitals

Just had to get that in, very important point
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7005

Kmarion wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

You do know that more people decreases the cost per person?
Are you aware of the healthcare cost in America? Per citizen the US government contributes nearly 6k a year. That exceeds any other government backed socialized medical plan. The real problem is the cost... of course thats why you don't have to wait months for simple procedures like MRI's here.
Well then maybe you should take some lessons from other countries on how to run it.
CC-Marley
Member
+407|7273
Government Health Care Sucks. It may sound good but it really isn't. Think about it again....

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