Oh, please, there are far more democrat bashing threads than republican bashing threads.
They mean suspicious as in looking like a terrorist, however also acting like one. If you see somebody fiddling with wires, and sweating, frantically looking around as they look to be piecing a bomb together, wouldn't you call them out? Don't try to make up all this bullshit that no one even talked about.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Suspicious activity. You know, like speaking or praying in foreign languages, wearing foreign clothing, or generally fitting the stereotype of "terrorist" that wanna-be sky marshals have jammed in their hops-and-cheetos-clogged brain matter.Harmor wrote:
If you report someone to the police or FBI for suspicious activity, like what the Flying Imams did, then they will sue you for all you are worth.
Sure, let's make it consequence-free for every dumbass that's ever going to travel by air or even leave the comfort of their double-wide for long enough to go to the local mini-mart and stock up on pork rinds and Hamm's to tie up our all-ready overtaxed and misdirected national security. Let's let there be no penalties at all for someone to essentially prank-call Homeland Security every time they they think they've uncovered a nefarious plot against America that turns out to be Abdul Ben-NobodyOfConsequence calling home to ask his wife if he needs to pick up milk on the way home.
Better yet, when all this nonsense clogs up the system enough that a real attack slips through, let's blame the liberals for being the ones who tied the hands of national security.
I meant catch-up since he was gone for a bit.Bubbalo wrote:
Oh, please, there are far more democrat bashing threads than republican bashing threads.
Oh...................right.........................still, I wish he'd do something more interesting than "Politicians lie, cheat and steal!".
Hey buddy, man I sure have missed your shitty disposition lately glad ya made it. Never implied I was a hero, I said I would be a part of any action. I did not say I would instigate the action. So to be part of any action there would have to be more than just me. Now, if THAT were the case then there would have to be a general feeling that something was definately wrong and action might be warranted. So ya see, McCLane I am not. I would simply defend myself and my family. Of course as a liberal I can understand how those concepts would seem alien to you. I know the only thing that would instinctively come to mind is coddle, surrender, appease or apologize.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
LOL, yeah, ease up there Mr. McClane. I'm sure just your imposing presence alone would be enough to cow any potential evildoers into inaction.lowing wrote:
Then I suggest you do not get on a plane and act in a behavior that is out of the ordinary for people traveling, because I promise you, in flight I will be a part of any action that does more than report your ass, especially if I am traveling with my family.In which case you'd be responsible for tying up resources supposedly in place to protect people in the name of your own petty bullshit as well as establishing proof positive why people should still have legal recourse against someone falsely accusing them of suspicious activity.lowing wrote:
But in your case, I would probably make up some shit.
Oh but I'm sure the terrorists will play along with the game and only use people who are dark-skinned with great big fucking beards who can't speak anything but Arabic and aren't disciplined enough to keep from acting suspicious. Profiling fails because the moment the profile is established, the badguys will start using people that don't fit the profile and will easily sneak by such security measures.
As for your second paragraph.see maybe sarcasm maybe joking maybe even smart ass comment. enough said
Then tell me why I would want to search the 4 ft nothing blue haired old lady or the 6 month old that is part of a family of 6 traveling together, over the lone arab with no luggage?
Last edited by lowing (2007-07-23 20:59:26)
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the "Flying Imams" were fiddling with wires, sweating, frantically looking around as they appeared to be piecing a bomb together.specops10-4 wrote:
They mean suspicious as in looking like a terrorist, however also acting like one. If you see somebody fiddling with wires, and sweating, frantically looking around as they look to be piecing a bomb together, wouldn't you call them out? Don't try to make up all this bullshit that no one even talked about.
Oh that's right, they weren't doing that now were they? Of course they should be thankful, one of the last people claimed to look like he was acting suspicious and appeared to have a bomb got shot fucking dead for it.
And apparently I wasn't making up shit no one even talked about since it was in the post I was directly quoting from. Shit, you can't even manage to observe what's going on in a BB thread; if people like you are going to be our watchdogs for suspicious behavior we are well and truly fucked.
hey bubbalo, how is it going man?Bubbalo wrote:
What's with all the Democrat bashing lowing?
Ummmmm, all the bashing is do to me being gone for awhile so I guess I gotta lot of catching up to do
hope things are well for you down under buddy.
You already know the answer to that oug. Let us all be honest here, we have all traveled, some extensively. We all know the mannerisms people display on airplanes and what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Nervously constantly checking your surroundings, constantly giving the flight crews a hard time. Never sitting still or relaxing, constantly checking your watch and scanning, whatever. In todays world I have no problem paying EXTRA attention to people from the ME displaying these mannerisms. Please let us all be honest here.oug wrote:
So what would you define as "suspicious behavior" lowing? I'm curious honestly. What would a man/ woman have to look like and what would he/she have to do to evoke suspicion?
After you answer, ask 10 people the same thing. I bet you'll see why this would not work.
I wouldbet that 10 people that travel alot would say basically the same things, if not add some I didn't list here because I didn't think of them right off the bat to list.
For any of you that witnessed such behavior BY ANYONE,( yes even the blue haired old lady,)on an airplane you would be lying if you do not admit that your concern level would not go up.
Ok, lets!HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Better yet, when all this nonsense clogs up the system enough that a real attack slips through, let's blame the liberals for being the ones who tied the hands of national security.
Finally we agree
I tried racism once, but I was labeled a racistBubbalo wrote:
Oh...................right.........................still, I wish he'd do something more interesting than "Politicians lie, cheat and steal!".
Well it's a good cathartic release for me. Resuming my six-months-stalled game of Oblivion once I'm done here will be much better though.lowing wrote:
Hey buddy, man I sure have missed your shitty disposition lately glad ya made it.
Sorry, the level of bluster made it sound like you intended to tear up a three-seat section with your bare hands and beat the offending party to death with it then quip "Please return your seat to its full upright position" afterwards.lowing wrote:
Never implied I was a hero, I said I would be a part of any action. I did not say I would instigate the action.
Right right, "Hurrrr, librulz don't buhleve in violins". I guess the 12-gauge shotgun about five feet to my right sitting all clean and comfortable in its hard-sider case is a figment of my imagination. Oh wait, I forgot, you're stuck in that mental loop that keeps telling you everyone to the left of you politically is some sort of recently-thawed cryogenic specimen preserved from Woodstock circa 1969. I hate to break this to you, those folks are distinctly in the minority these days. To be honest I find the "peace, pot and microdot" Rainbow Family Oregon-Country-Fair types to be really, really fucking naive and overly idealistic. I eat meat. I shoot guns. I can't listen to the Grateful Dead without understanding why animals caught in leg-hold traps commonly gnaw their own limbs off to escape. And I have not a single solitary problem with the idea of dropping the hammer on someone about to cause harm to either my family, someone else, or myself. You won't see me putting a load of 00 buck into someone over my car or my tv though. The hernia they'd get from lifting the TV would be more satisfying anyway.lowing wrote:
So to be part of any action there would have to be more than just me. Now, if THAT were the case then there would have to be a general feeling that something was definately wrong and action might be warranted. So ya see, McCLane I am not. I would simply defend myself and my family. Of course as a liberal I can understand how those concepts would seem alien to you. I know the only thing that would instinctively come to mind is coddle, surrender, appease or apologize.
See also, plausible deniability.lowing wrote:
As for your second paragraph.see maybe sarcasm maybe joking maybe even smart ass comment. enough said
Because the lone arab with no luggage might just be there to distract your attention from either of the first two. Do you seriously think these fuckers are above using old ladies or kids? I don't. The people who lead and train terrorists are nine times out of ten amoral scumbags with no value for human life. They prey on peoples' misery and pain and turn them into living weapons, guided missiles made of flesh and blood. What, I'm supposed to think someone like Abu Nidal is going to have a sudden attack of conscience and say "No, we can't use an old woman or a child to conceal a bomb, that would be wrong!". If I don't think that, why should you? More importantly, why should the people who are actually supposed to be protecting us? You can't fight a flexible and unconventional enemy by using inflexible and conventional strategies. If our security apparatus gets locked into a specific set of characteristics to look for, terrorists will use it against us. They'll use basic social engineering to get around it. You just gave two glaring examples of how they could do it, two triggers that to most people say "Not a threat; ignore". That could cost a hell of a lot more lives than "Political Correctness" could.lowing wrote:
Then tell me why I would want to search the 4 ft nothing blue haired old lady or the 6 month old that is part of a family of 6 traveling together, over the lone arab with no luggage?
1. glad to hear it.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Well it's a good cathartic release for me. Resuming my six-months-stalled game of Oblivion once I'm done here will be much better though.lowing wrote:
Hey buddy, man I sure have missed your shitty disposition lately glad ya made it.Sorry, the level of bluster made it sound like you intended to tear up a three-seat section with your bare hands and beat the offending party to death with it then quip "Please return your seat to its full upright position" afterwards.lowing wrote:
Never implied I was a hero, I said I would be a part of any action. I did not say I would instigate the action.Right right, "Hurrrr, librulz don't buhleve in violins". I guess the 12-gauge shotgun about five feet to my right sitting all clean and comfortable in its hard-sider case is a figment of my imagination. Oh wait, I forgot, you're stuck in that mental loop that keeps telling you everyone to the left of you politically is some sort of recently-thawed cryogenic specimen preserved from Woodstock circa 1969. I hate to break this to you, those folks are distinctly in the minority these days. To be honest I find the "peace, pot and microdot" Rainbow Family Oregon-Country-Fair types to be really, really fucking naive and overly idealistic. I eat meat. I shoot guns. I can't listen to the Grateful Dead without understanding why animals caught in leg-hold traps commonly gnaw their own limbs off to escape. And I have not a single solitary problem with the idea of dropping the hammer on someone about to cause harm to either my family, someone else, or myself. You won't see me putting a load of 00 buck into someone over my car or my tv though. The hernia they'd get from lifting the TV would be more satisfying anyway.lowing wrote:
So to be part of any action there would have to be more than just me. Now, if THAT were the case then there would have to be a general feeling that something was definately wrong and action might be warranted. So ya see, McCLane I am not. I would simply defend myself and my family. Of course as a liberal I can understand how those concepts would seem alien to you. I know the only thing that would instinctively come to mind is coddle, surrender, appease or apologize.See also, plausible deniability.lowing wrote:
As for your second paragraph.see maybe sarcasm maybe joking maybe even smart ass comment. enough saidBecause the lone arab with no luggage might just be there to distract your attention from either of the first two. Do you seriously think these fuckers are above using old ladies or kids? I don't. The people who lead and train terrorists are nine times out of ten amoral scumbags with no value for human life. They prey on peoples' misery and pain and turn them into living weapons, guided missiles made of flesh and blood. What, I'm supposed to think someone like Abu Nidal is going to have a sudden attack of conscience and say "No, we can't use an old woman or a child to conceal a bomb, that would be wrong!". If I don't think that, why should you? More importantly, why should the people who are actually supposed to be protecting us? You can't fight a flexible and unconventional enemy by using inflexible and conventional strategies. If our security apparatus gets locked into a specific set of characteristics to look for, terrorists will use it against us. They'll use basic social engineering to get around it. You just gave two glaring examples of how they could do it, two triggers that to most people say "Not a threat; ignore". That could cost a hell of a lot more lives than "Political Correctness" could.lowing wrote:
Then tell me why I would want to search the 4 ft nothing blue haired old lady or the 6 month old that is part of a family of 6 traveling together, over the lone arab with no luggage?
2. Ok good mis-understanding resolved.
3. stop trying to butter me up
4. not hardly
5.This is very true, however until they invent the "Eraser" ( you know the Ahhnuld movie) mobile body x-ray machine for airports we will only be ably to use the tools available to us, and those tools are still, instinct, odds, and history and observation. This is reality unless of course you are willing to show up 3 days instead of 3 hours before your flight.
What are you on about?sergeriver wrote:
Stereotyping and prejudice Ftw.
Ok, let me get this straight, Lowing is going off because the Democrats actually blocked a policy based on a Hollywood cliche...
In reality, those who have committed to carrying out an attack will have their "game faces" on. The sweating nervous tension that is a part of almost every film/series from "True Lies" to "24" makes for good acting, but terrible reality. Check out the history of transportation terror sometime, the full stories. I'll even make it easy and just use "Arab friendly" examples.
9/11 - These guys, in all aircraft, by all "official" accounts looked relaxed and even playful like they were on their way to party in Vegas before they whipped out that first box cutter.
London Bombings - review the video, these guys looked like ordinary college students with small rucksacks like you would see anywhere. Security camera photage showed no wierd behavior and eyewitnesses said these guys were pretty normal.
Shoebomber - This guy was basically a mentally handicapped idiot. Sure he can write a good batch of nonsensical screed and use big words, but trying to light your shoe on fire with a lighter is, well, commonsensically suspicious.
My Wife - My wife is terrified of flying. Any little sound or jolt immediately gets her looking around wild-eyed and scared shitless. When the stewardess comes by to ask which meal or drink she wants, she can't even begin to think about making a decision, I usually have to just say "water, thanks" for her. Fortunately, she's a pasty white Romanian and not suspect. I'm just imagining though if her skin was a bit darker in color or her English was less fluent...then stick her in the middle of some equally scared Americans fed a steady stream of Kool-Aid from Faux News.
We won't be visiting the US any time real soon methinks. I don't want this kind of stupidity to happen to may family.
In reality, those who have committed to carrying out an attack will have their "game faces" on. The sweating nervous tension that is a part of almost every film/series from "True Lies" to "24" makes for good acting, but terrible reality. Check out the history of transportation terror sometime, the full stories. I'll even make it easy and just use "Arab friendly" examples.
9/11 - These guys, in all aircraft, by all "official" accounts looked relaxed and even playful like they were on their way to party in Vegas before they whipped out that first box cutter.
London Bombings - review the video, these guys looked like ordinary college students with small rucksacks like you would see anywhere. Security camera photage showed no wierd behavior and eyewitnesses said these guys were pretty normal.
Shoebomber - This guy was basically a mentally handicapped idiot. Sure he can write a good batch of nonsensical screed and use big words, but trying to light your shoe on fire with a lighter is, well, commonsensically suspicious.
My Wife - My wife is terrified of flying. Any little sound or jolt immediately gets her looking around wild-eyed and scared shitless. When the stewardess comes by to ask which meal or drink she wants, she can't even begin to think about making a decision, I usually have to just say "water, thanks" for her. Fortunately, she's a pasty white Romanian and not suspect. I'm just imagining though if her skin was a bit darker in color or her English was less fluent...then stick her in the middle of some equally scared Americans fed a steady stream of Kool-Aid from Faux News.
We won't be visiting the US any time real soon methinks. I don't want this kind of stupidity to happen to may family.
Last edited by GorillaTicTacs (2007-07-24 01:58:18)
Exactly! well put. +1lowing wrote:
Obviously you do not live in America, the land of frivolous lawsuits, aimed at taking something from some one that has something you were too lazy to go earn yourself.Vernedead wrote:
i've got to say that i wonder at the mind who can think "well they could be terrorists plotting the murder of thousands but if i say something it might cost me money so bugger that."lowing wrote:
Why your typical ACLU lawyers and their bombardment of civil lawsuits that would surely follow from reporting suspicious behavior of course.
If that's the thread I'm thinking of, then that would be because that's a fair judgement.lowing wrote:
I tried racism once, but I was labeled a racist
Still, I bet you haven't been banned for racism .
You're right, I have traveled quite a bit, and I also have relatives working in the aviation industry. That's why I know that those mannerisms you speak of are completely off the mark. What ever happened to people of dark complexion afraid of flying?lowing wrote:
You already know the answer to that oug. Let us all be honest here, we have all traveled, some extensively. We all know the mannerisms people display on airplanes and what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Nervously constantly checking your surroundings, constantly giving the flight crews a hard time. Never sitting still or relaxing, constantly checking your watch and scanning, whatever. In todays world I have no problem paying EXTRA attention to people from the ME displaying these mannerisms. Please let us all be honest here.
I wouldbet that 10 people that travel alot would say basically the same things, if not add some I didn't list here because I didn't think of them right off the bat to list.
For any of you that witnessed such behavior BY ANYONE,( yes even the blue haired old lady,)on an airplane you would be lying if you do not admit that your concern level would not go up.
Look, its ridiculous to assume that a terrorist about to blow himself up would be so easily identifiable. It is also ridiculous on your part not to take into consideration all the problems arising from completely idiotic people trying to make a bust. Look at this for example and tell me which movie it reminds you of:
I for one cannot help but laugh at this.specops10-4 wrote:
They mean suspicious as in looking like a terrorist, however also acting like one. If you see somebody fiddling with wires, and sweating, frantically looking around as they look to be piecing a bomb together, wouldn't you call them out? Don't try to make up all this bullshit that no one even talked about.
Bottom line, thousands of people face problems today because of their skin color. Because when a ME man walks into a plane everyone's checking to see where he's stuffed the TNT cylinder with the big fuse.
Like HunterOfSkulls said, innocent people have already lost their lives because of some stupid authority-infested trigger-happy cops. Things will be hard to change as it is. Surely we don't need to give morons the legal backup to accuse anyone who's face they don't like.
ƒ³
Actor James Woods witnessed the 911 terrorists on a flight weeks before the attack. He noticed them acting very strange. Strange enought that he filed a report to the authorities about it. This report basically went ignored. I am sure this will not happen again. \GorillaTicTacs wrote:
Ok, let me get this straight, Lowing is going off because the Democrats actually blocked a policy based on a Hollywood cliche...
In reality, those who have committed to carrying out an attack will have their "game faces" on. The sweating nervous tension that is a part of almost every film/series from "True Lies" to "24" makes for good acting, but terrible reality. Check out the history of transportation terror sometime, the full stories. I'll even make it easy and just use "Arab friendly" examples.
9/11 - These guys, in all aircraft, by all "official" accounts looked relaxed and even playful like they were on their way to party in Vegas before they whipped out that first box cutter.
London Bombings - review the video, these guys looked like ordinary college students with small rucksacks like you would see anywhere. Security camera photage showed no wierd behavior and eyewitnesses said these guys were pretty normal.
Shoebomber - This guy was basically a mentally handicapped idiot. Sure he can write a good batch of nonsensical screed and use big words, but trying to light your shoe on fire with a lighter is, well, commonsensically suspicious.
My Wife - My wife is terrified of flying. Any little sound or jolt immediately gets her looking around wild-eyed and scared shitless. When the stewardess comes by to ask which meal or drink she wants, she can't even begin to think about making a decision, I usually have to just say "water, thanks" for her. Fortunately, she's a pasty white Romanian and not suspect. I'm just imagining though if her skin was a bit darker in color or her English was less fluent...then stick her in the middle of some equally scared Americans fed a steady stream of Kool-Aid from Faux News.
We won't be visiting the US any time real soon methinks. I don't want this kind of stupidity to happen to may family.
If you think it is "stupid" to be aware of your surroundings and aware of people acting out of the ordinary, then we will just agree to disagree on that point.
ANd if your wife is a pasty white girl with emotional issues, then by all means, feel free NOT to visit the US at your leisure.
What a stupid thread.
This law makes perfect sense. The victims of the growing minority of paranoid, racist Americans should be able to press charges against their accusers. If the incident was handled properly they would have no cause for complaint - if it was not, then they would have a very good case.
This law makes perfect sense. The victims of the growing minority of paranoid, racist Americans should be able to press charges against their accusers. If the incident was handled properly they would have no cause for complaint - if it was not, then they would have a very good case.
Well, I have almost 20 years in the airline industry as an aircraft mechanic, done more than my share of flying, and I can safely say that I feel pretty confident that if someone was acting wierd on a plane, that person is going to get attention. Hell, he may be anything but a terrorist, but he will get attention.oug wrote:
You're right, I have traveled quite a bit, and I also have relatives working in the aviation industry. That's why I know that those mannerisms you speak of are completely off the mark. What ever happened to people of dark complexion afraid of flying?lowing wrote:
You already know the answer to that oug. Let us all be honest here, we have all traveled, some extensively. We all know the mannerisms people display on airplanes and what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Nervously constantly checking your surroundings, constantly giving the flight crews a hard time. Never sitting still or relaxing, constantly checking your watch and scanning, whatever. In todays world I have no problem paying EXTRA attention to people from the ME displaying these mannerisms. Please let us all be honest here.
I wouldbet that 10 people that travel alot would say basically the same things, if not add some I didn't list here because I didn't think of them right off the bat to list.
For any of you that witnessed such behavior BY ANYONE,( yes even the blue haired old lady,)on an airplane you would be lying if you do not admit that your concern level would not go up.
Look, its ridiculous to assume that a terrorist about to blow himself up would be so easily identifiable. It is also ridiculous on your part not to take into consideration all the problems arising from completely idiotic people trying to make a bust. Look at this for example and tell me which movie it reminds you of:I for one cannot help but laugh at this.specops10-4 wrote:
They mean suspicious as in looking like a terrorist, however also acting like one. If you see somebody fiddling with wires, and sweating, frantically looking around as they look to be piecing a bomb together, wouldn't you call them out? Don't try to make up all this bullshit that no one even talked about.
Bottom line, thousands of people face problems today because of their skin color. Because when a ME man walks into a plane everyone's checking to see where he's stuffed the TNT cylinder with the big fuse.
Like HunterOfSkulls said, innocent people have already lost their lives because of some stupid authority-infested trigger-happy cops. Things will be hard to change as it is. Surely we don't need to give morons the legal backup to accuse anyone who's face they don't like.
I can also bow to the fact that if a terrorist made it past intel, made to the airport, made it through security, made it on the airplane, made it to his seat and blew up without him acting strangly, then yeah, I guess I will agree that there just isn't much ya can do about it.
However, in todays world, isn't it kinda dumb to let suspicious behaivior go unchecked? I mean come on really.
I didn't call you racist, just this is stereotyping from the title til the end of the OP. I don't see a position to defend anyway here. Make a real argument and I'll debate it.lowing wrote:
Wow, a new record!! it only took 2 pages to be called predjudice/racist about an otherwise undefendable topic. I forget serge, which number was that on my list of how to be a good liberal?sergeriver wrote:
Stereotyping and prejudice Ftw.
Yeah, I guess being forced to miss your flight and take a later one would be worth several million dollars in damages, and the person that was only trying protect himself and his fellow passengers from a possible problem before it actually unfolds, should be be ass raped by a liberal ACLU lawyer.Bertster7 wrote:
What a stupid thread.
This law makes perfect sense. The victims of the growing minority of paranoid, racist Americans should be able to press charges against their accusers. If the incident was handled properly they would have no cause for complaint - if it was not, then they would have a very good case.
I take it all back, let us all wear blinders and be totally oblivious to our surroundings so we do not inconvenience possible terror suspects or heaven for bid, hurt one of their feelings. What a great plan. Maybe it would be best to not screen paaengers at all, I mean, com on those long lines are such a pain in the ass.
There's a big difference between doing something like reporting something suspicious like unattended baggage and some would be hero tackling an Arab who was tying his shoelaces, because he thought he was going to set off a shoe bomb.lowing wrote:
However, in todays world, isn't it kinda dumb to let suspicious behaivior go unchecked? I mean come on really.
That would be improper handling of the situation and the guy who got tackled would have every right to press charges.
What there should be are very clear guidelines on how to properly deal with such a situation and if those guidelines are properly followed, then the accusers should be legally protected.
The argument was made in the OP serge.sergeriver wrote:
I didn't call you racist, just this is stereotyping from the title til the end of the OP. I don't see a position to defend anyway here. Make a real argument and I'll debate it.lowing wrote:
Wow, a new record!! it only took 2 pages to be called predjudice/racist about an otherwise undefendable topic. I forget serge, which number was that on my list of how to be a good liberal?sergeriver wrote:
Stereotyping and prejudice Ftw.
And made very badly.lowing wrote:
The argument was made in the OP serge.sergeriver wrote:
I didn't call you racist, just this is stereotyping from the title til the end of the OP. I don't see a position to defend anyway here. Make a real argument and I'll debate it.lowing wrote:
Wow, a new record!! it only took 2 pages to be called predjudice/racist about an otherwise undefendable topic. I forget serge, which number was that on my list of how to be a good liberal?
It's a stupid argument.