BF2S Forums Throw away AK-47s

jonnykill wrote:

But I get a kick out of people saying they are worthless peasant shooters . You ever shoot an AK ? They kick ass .

Don't  misunderstand what I mean by a peasant weapon:  I simply mean that it is designed to put into action quickly with a minimum of fuss.  A question that will illustrate my point:  Do you think the average 3rd world AK user knows as much about his weapon as the average soldier in a western army knows about his?  Yet that peasant (for lack of a better term) is still marginally effective (which is probably as good as one can hope for) because of the nature of his weapon.  Like I said, it is good for what it is...but it isn't a great combat weapon for highly trained troops.  Sorry, that's my $0.02.

I have shot many AK's.  They are fun, can't deny it.  Wouldn't want to take one to combat.

jonnykill wrote:

I had a hunting version of an AK that had a milled reciever . Thing wieghed a ton , like 12 pounds unloaded . It's called the Veper . I got lucky to find one in 5.45x39 . Imagine shooting an  M-4 that wieghs this much . This gun is so scary accurate . I can plink a 200 meter target with 30 round mag and hit 28 .

That sounds fun, but it sounds like a vast improvement over a standard AK...which it clearly is not.

jonnykill wrote:

If I had to go into battle forget both the M-16 and the AK . The M1A scout would be my choice . It's pretty much farm equipment that won't break , jam and has a serious round to boot . Can't believe we got rid of the M-14 garands for the M-16 . Just can't believe it . We should start issuing Daisy Red Riders , so we can shoot the enemies eyes out .

I have had to go into battle with it, and I personally think the M-4 is the best combat weapon in a long time.  Why?  Portability.  Yes, the 5.56 round does not have the stopping or killing power of a 7.62...but it doesn't have to.  If I fire my M-4 at you I GUARANTEE you will put your head down.  That's all it needs to do.  If I manage to hit you with it (not graze but hit), I GUARANTEE you will be combat ineffective.  That's all it needs to do.  Now the best part...I can easily carry three times as much ammo for my 5.56 as you can for your 7.62.

The most intense battle for US troops in the past 20 years was 3 OCT 1993 in Mogadishu.  What was the biggest problem for ground troops there?  Not enough ammo.  If they had been carrying M-14's, a lot more soldiers would be dead, because their combat load wouldn't have cut it (troops were carrying 3 and 4 combat loads on 3 OCT).

Don't get me wrong, I really like the M-14, and the 7.62 NATO round...but the M-4 is the best compromise between accuracy and close in portability.

jonnykill wrote:

In Vietnam the average of bullets fired per kill was 15 . Witch is why I shit on the M-16 . the 223. rem is too light . 7.62x39 was ripping up the jungle where as our 223. was bouncing off of tree twigs and limbs . 7.62x39 goes right through 9 inches of solid tree .

The primary reason so many rounds were fired per kill is because of the full auto mode, which has been removed.  Soldiers actually have to aim at their targets with the M-16 and M-4.

jonnykill wrote:

Reports of jamming were common . So WTF does an accurate rifle do for you if your constantly doing SPORTS ?

Are we still talking about Vietnam?  The jamming was primarily because of the ammo, and secondarily because of issues with the weapon.  Both have been fixed.  The M-16 still jams, but usually if you do SPORTS once you are good.  I will admit there are occasional cases where SPORTS doesn't cut it...but it hasn't been a huge problem for me.

jonnykill wrote:

How many parts are in an M-16 ? like 12 ? How fucked are you when you lose one of thoes parts ? Firing pin retaining pin lol ? AK's have have like 4 parts . Gun body , bolt , bolt spring , barrel .

I don't know too many soldiers who have lost parts...they learn EARLY not to do that.  Besides, you can do quick maintenance without breaking down that far.  Remove upper receiver, remove bolt carrier assembly, quick clean, quick rod, and Bob's your uncle.

The users of the AK, in many cases (i.e. the enemy et. al.), don't know how to do _that_ much maintenance on their weapon.  I mean, look at these guys!

Last edited by whittsend (2006-01-18 10:46:12)

Hahahahah these guys rock ! That's in Rawanda right ? What do they call that Female Commander ? White Diamond or something ? These cats wear wigs and all kinds of crap . Bright colors and stuff to "scare" the enemy lol . Holy crap these pics put my in tears of laughter .

Good points on all your posts . Your mentioning of the 223. round reminds me of one of the reasons we went with 223. Had something to do with the fact that more often then not the round will tumble upon impact with flesh . So getting hit in the shoulder wich might simply pass right through you with 7.62x39 say but 223. will bounce around and end up in your rib cage . Wich reminds me of a story in Afghanistan . Rangers were asking for the M-14 and M1A Scouts because the bullets were bouncing off the Talibans armoure . 15 layers of goat skins hahahahahah . They were actually hitting targets at 800 meters . Great accuracy , poor round IMHO .
Ever see the sniper video of the Marines taking out Taliban fighters ? Holy crap turbans a fly'in . Sick shooting . I read this one report wear this one sniper was observing 2 guys walking down a hill . He actualy waited till they were lined up on the trail . He took the at the perfect time . The 50. cal bullet went through both guys killing them instantly .

Let me get a hold of  this one vid you gotta see .

http://www.ak-47.net/currentnews.html

http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/ar15kaboom3.htm

Lol this brings back bad , bad memories of cleaning my M-16 for 4 hours literaly before handing it off to the arms room . 4 hours lol . I'll clean an AK inside of ten minutes .

http://www.medtrng.com/071-311-2025.htm


Ever shoot any other Russian made stuff ? Ever try an SKS ? I got one for 200$ . I took it to the local shooting range and gave it a whirl . Holy crap is that thing accurate . There is a steel diamond at 100 meters , but someone shot the lug off that holds it onto the pole . So I started shooting at the pole . I hit the first time , second time , third time . My jaw hit the ground . The pole is only an inch thick . I hit all ten rounds open sighted . I went to reload and noticed how quiet it wass . I looked around and about 80 percent of the people on the range were staring at me hahahahaha . This SKS was made in like 1945 lol .
I dunno I'm just cray about AK's and the way they are made . I love the colored wood , the simplicity and durability of them . Plus they sound cool and can be bump fired .


oh here is that Veper I told you about .

http://www.ak-47.us/gear/AK47_Review.php

Sorry if I offended you but I find the pictures , the ones you see here , funny . Show me pictures of dead bodies hit by stray bullets and I won't be cracking jokes - honest .

JK

those were funny adds to read about them US soldiers. Reminded me of the last episode of Combat Missions on tv, this navyseal lost the round becuz his gun jammed, m4 i belief. It jammed cuz he parently rammed the mag in too harsh, cocked it and filed off some shit of the bullet which made the gun jam. After pounding it in the ground twice it was "destroyed beyond repairs" what a louzy shitass rifle. lol

Aquastorm wrote:

Tell me, what's so funny in THOSE pictures, not the poeple with funny wigs. Are those screen-shots?. No.
If they happen to get shot between the eyes by a stray round, regardless of funky wig or not, they don't get a respawn. Laugh at some poor guy in Karkand getting a direct artillery hit, not in real life.

I think those pictures are hilarious.  Why?  Because I have 12 years of military experience so I can see about 100 things that are tactically wrong in those pictures.  Additionally, I have been on the receiving end of fire in situations very similar to those on several occasions.  Have you even BEEN to a country like those in the pictures?

I understand jonnykill has some time in also (I have spent many hours cleaning my rifle too).  Therefore, he probably has some tactical understanding himself.  More than enough reason to find those pictures funny.  jonnykill: Army or Marines? 

Yep, those photos are a trip.  I think I have earned the right to say so.  If that offends you, tough shit.  I seriously doubt that you have earned the right to preach to me about it.  If you have any experience in a situation like that I stand corrected (but still disagree)...if not, maybe you should consider remaining silent on a subject about which you are ignorant.

whittsend wrote:

Aquastorm wrote:

Tell me, what's so funny in THOSE pictures, not the poeple with funny wigs. Are those screen-shots?. No.
If they happen to get shot between the eyes by a stray round, regardless of funky wig or not, they don't get a respawn. Laugh at some poor guy in Karkand getting a direct artillery hit, not in real life.

I think those pictures are hilarious.  Why?  Because I have 12 years of military experience so I can see about 100 things that are tactically wrong in those pictures.  Additionally, I have been on the receiving end of fire in situations very similar to those on several occasions.  Have you even BEEN to a country like those in the pictures?

I understand jonnykill has some time in also (I have spent many hours cleaning my rifle too).  Therefore, he probably has some tactical understanding himself.  More than enough reason to find those pictures funny.  jonnykill: Army or Marines? 

Yep, those photos are a trip.  I think I have earned the right to say so.  If that offends you, tough shit.  I seriously doubt that you have earned the right to preach to me about it.  If you have any experience in a situation like that I stand corrected (but still disagree)...if not, maybe you should consider remaining silent on a subject about which you are ignorant.

Yep Army . 3/62nd ADA (Air Defense Artillery ) Charlie Battery . 10th Mountain Division FT.Drum N.Y One cold SOB up there . So damn cold they send the troops from Alaska there for cold weather training . 
I only had a very short 3 1/2 years in . Got to see the lovely Island of Haiti 1994 Operation restore Democracy lol . Was more like a vacation . Not a round fired and the vegitation was killer hahahahahaha . As far as these photos go you don't even need to see combat to laugh at them . Sorry but I was a soldier , light infantry . If I saw some guy wearing a wig (although not shown in these particular photos ), bright yellow clothing shooting at me holding an AK like that I'd be laughing too hard to line up the shot . Sorry but that shit is funny .


Other interesting facts about my time at FT.Drum .

  The coldest weather I've ever been in was -68 with a wind chill factor of -86 . Was so cold that we were ordered to cover all our skin or get written up with a couciling statement . Ah counciling statements - gott'a love'em . I hocked a lugie onto my hummer window and it froze solid within 3 seconds .

My first day at FT.Drum the snow was literally 6-7 feet deep . The snow drifts covered the sides of building to the 3rd floor .

  I graduated from Air assault School at FT.Drum . Our motto , that I came up with was " Down the rope and into the mud , best beware the Air Assault studd ! "

I fired and hit 5 out of 5 stinger missles at FT.Drum .

Every building you walk into at FT.Drum has photos of people who got frost bitten in the very first room in open view . Nasty stuff it is . Your hands will turn black and the skin peels off like a banana . You lose your fingers for good . You get court martialed for getting this badly bitten . Destruction of Government property .
But I've never heard of anyone getting nailed this way .

One guy tried to take a dump out in this weather . They had to take him to the hospital . Both his ass cheecks awere frost bitten and they had to literally chip the dookie out of his butt hahahahha -  ownage !

   I got drunk and did a PLF out of the second story window of the barracks on my day off in front a battalion in formation . PLF is a Parachuteists Land and Fall . I went to jump school as well . But not at FT.Drum . Twas FT. Bragg N.C . 5 jump chump - ooooorah !

I pulled my groin and stomach wall twice there trying to catch myself from sliping on the ice . Ice sucks . And regualr Issue cold weather boots have zero grip . Ice sucks .

I'm  drunk , goodnight .

JK

jonnykill wrote:

10th Mountain Division FT.Drum N.Y One cold SOB up there . So damn cold they send the troops from Alaska there for cold weather training .

No Shit!  I was 2-14 IN at Ft. Drum from 1992-1995.  Got my tours of Somalia and Haiti courtesy of the 10th.

You stole my line about troops coming from Alaska to Drum for Cold Weather Training!

My favorite part was; in the winter you could tell how far a troop had run for PT by the length of the icicle hanging off his watch cap!

Climb to Glory!

Edit:  Haiti was pretty boring for me too.  We called it the 'Hatian Vacation'.  After Somalia, it made a nice change though!

Last edited by whittsend (2006-01-20 11:56:06)

IN = Infantry (Artillery is FA - Divarty was near you guys, wasn't it?  I didn't get out of infantry country too much ).  2-14 IN Bn HQ was on N. Riva Ridge Loop, barracks were just behind it.  Last Infantry Battalion on the right as you are heading toward the banks and the PX.

Ak's aren't really MOSTLY used in Iraq . Every Middle Eastern and third world country is loaded with them .
Poor Kalashnikov gave the AK design to the North Viet cong . Sadly they just took the design and told Russia to go F themselves in the way of royalties .They basically stole the design and mass produced it . Then they simply sold the rifles in mass along with the design to all other countries willing to pay the price and do the same thing . Then thoes countries developed facotires and sold other countries the design thus a domino effect happened . That's why you can buy AK's for 25$ US dollars in some countries . IE Romanian SAR2 .
Polish milled ak's . Chineese under folders and side folders for tank crews . Checlosavakia AK's . Turkish AK's with grenade luanchers . You name it , someone out there makes it .
AK's have the reliability but less accuracy . So there are 2 models that have hit the platform in the Russian arsenal . The AN-94 is a new rifle that has a recipacating barrel . That means the whole barrle slams back like a howizter and helps in reducing recoil . Also it has the ability to fire 2 rouns at once . This means that before the first bullet leaves the barrel another one is fired just behind it . This allows 50% more killing effectiveness . 2 bullets in a target is a definite take down .
The other rifle is a Bizon . It is Russia's ( MP-5 ) . It usues 9mm rounds and has a circular mag holding 64 rounds . High fire rate makes this weapon a QCC dream . I believe both are milled .

MK-90 Chineese clone . Hope you didn't pay too much for it . Anything over $400 for that and you got ripped off . As for the drum mags jamming , it's not the mag . It's the rifle .

jonnykill wrote:

the North Viet cong.

I have just come back from my holiday in Vietnam (and Cambodia) and have to tell you you're wrong. The North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong were 2 different organisations.

The NVA was the army of the communist north vietnam, while the VC were the gurillua army of South Vietnam.

The NVA fought against the Americans around the DMZ and north Vietnam, while the VC ran insurgent attacks on South Vietnamese Army personel and American Forces.

While in the South, i got the oppertunity to shoot the AK-47 at the Cu Chi Tunnels (West of Ho Chi Minh City). I only shot 5 rounds, but I think that has enough. I didn't have any noise protection and it fucked my hearing up for about half an hour. Oh well, at least I did something that Ill never do in australia due to our gun laws.