FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6939|so randum

Commie Killer wrote:

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:


Cheap labor is in abundance there, thats for sure, the trade deficet is amazing, also, which is even more amazing is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_aid_to_China
$1.4 billion is absolutely nothing, Bill Gates could write the check himself without breaking a sweat.  I'm not saying its even close to right though.

China is the big 800-lb gorilla though, but we have each other by the short-hairs.  If they start dumping their dollars, they'll devalue their own currency as the yuan has been pegged solidly to the dollar since 1998 (pegged = relatively proportional at all times).  If they don't start dumping their dollars, and the dollar keeps sliding anyways (against the GBP or Euro, for example), they still lose.  If they start calling in their debts and snapping up hard American assets (not the liquid stuff like stocks, like factories and real estate), they'll still lose as the deflationary spiral hits in the US.

Basically, China and the US are now in a strange sort of tightrope walk holding hands, and it sucks to be a citizen of either one, as they could start falling at any minute.  War spending and easy credit made this happen, god bless the neo-cons.
I doubt that losing our trade with them would hurt us as much as them, we would bounce back as other countries took up the slack. Cutting trade between the PRC and the USA would hurt us but it would kill them.
I hope you are aware that places outside of the US buy Chinese goods? If trade between US and the PRC ended, China would be set-back, America would be fucked.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7155

fatherted13 wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

GorillaTicTacs wrote:


$1.4 billion is absolutely nothing, Bill Gates could write the check himself without breaking a sweat.  I'm not saying its even close to right though.

China is the big 800-lb gorilla though, but we have each other by the short-hairs.  If they start dumping their dollars, they'll devalue their own currency as the yuan has been pegged solidly to the dollar since 1998 (pegged = relatively proportional at all times).  If they don't start dumping their dollars, and the dollar keeps sliding anyways (against the GBP or Euro, for example), they still lose.  If they start calling in their debts and snapping up hard American assets (not the liquid stuff like stocks, like factories and real estate), they'll still lose as the deflationary spiral hits in the US.

Basically, China and the US are now in a strange sort of tightrope walk holding hands, and it sucks to be a citizen of either one, as they could start falling at any minute.  War spending and easy credit made this happen, god bless the neo-cons.
I doubt that losing our trade with them would hurt us as much as them, we would bounce back as other countries took up the slack. Cutting trade between the PRC and the USA would hurt us but it would kill them.
I hope you are aware that places outside of the US buy Chinese goods? If trade between US and the PRC ended, China would be set-back, America would be fucked.
US is the largest trader with China. US is looking at other options... AKA India and Thailand... There are other countries with cheap ass labour you know?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7039|132 and Bush

PvtStPoK wrote:

good job Beijing!
Considering the US is Canada's largest trading partner I can't help but wonder why a US rescission would delight you.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7060|London, England
So in response, many of the Americans in this thread have talked about Military action. Sometimes I wonder just....how civilised (is that the right world) some people are.

This isn't a bash to Americans, I'm just making a note that it's funny something like this can't be discussed without resorting to Military action/Kill them all action.

Just accept that this is a problem you can't solve with M1A2's and F22 fighter Jets, and then you can go from there. Unfortunately, that mind set will never seem to go.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7155

Mekstizzle wrote:

So in response, many of the Americans in this thread have talked about Military action. Sometimes I wonder just....how civilised (is that the right world) some people are.

This isn't a bash to Americans, I'm just making a note that it's funny something like this can't be discussed without resorting to Military action/Kill them all action.

Just accept that this is a problem you can't solve with M1A2's and F22 fighter Jets, and then you can go from there. Unfortunately, that mind set will never seem to go.
Those who have the guns speak and win. Why do you think most African nations can't really say shit in the UN?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6812|Kyiv, Ukraine
Bottom line is that the trade deficit is a nice distraction, but its not the main reason to worry.

The US needs China to keep buying her debt to pay for our wars.  When you pay for a war, the money doesn't go into some black hole, it goes to contractors and manufacturers (and precious little goes into the pockets of the soldiers).  This makes up 7% of our economy.  China decides to buy other securities to back the yuan, they effectively shut off the neo-con spending spree and start a snowball effect on our economy.  And if we go after Iran, China will do this without hesitation, it has more than enough markets to sell goods to, and it knows that the growth spree has to slow down sometime.

We've loaded the shotgun for our enemies to shoot us with.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6826

Mekstizzle wrote:

So in response, many of the Americans in this thread have talked about Military action. Sometimes I wonder just....how civilised (is that the right world) some people are.

This isn't a bash to Americans, I'm just making a note that it's funny something like this can't be discussed without resorting to Military action/Kill them all action.

Just accept that this is a problem you can't solve with M1A2's and F22 fighter Jets, and then you can go from there. Unfortunately, that mind set will never seem to go.
International relations consist of one country fucking another.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6987|San Diego, CA, USA
China, by keeping their yuan pegged to the United States dollar actually keeps cheap products (extending the purchasing power of American families), at the cost of increasingly widening trade deficits.

What should happen is the yuan should float on the open market, but its not.  This is causing inflation in China (10% per year).
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6987|San Diego, CA, USA
What if we just stopped recognizing the Chinese debt?
BVC
Member
+325|7134
The more I look at the news...different sources from all over the show...the more I start to think western isolationism & economic indepence (not national isolationism/independence) is a good idea.
agent146
Member
+127|6825|Jesus Land aka Canada
the chinese have the ju10....they will own.... LOL in ....BATTLEfIELD 2
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6812|Kyiv, Ukraine

Harmor wrote:

What if we just stopped recognizing the Chinese debt?
China doesn't hold a specific "check" that we can cancel, it holds a combination securities and raw American dollars.  Treasury bills are nearly as good as cash, and nearly as liquid, and we can't just "fail to recognize" a specific one or set of them.  But if we could, the result would be total disaster.  The American dollar would no longer be seen as a reliable currency at all in the world market.  China only holds a small % of the total foreign debt, European banks together hold the major part of our 45% national debt in foreign hands.

Basically, defaulting on our treasury bills to China would mean the collapse of the dollar instantly, as well as the total economic collapse of many countries in the world that back their currency with dollars.  World-wide recession would follow.  The USA would lose nearly all of its trading partners, as the dollar would be useless.  No more oil imports, no more cheap electronics/clothes/food for the masses.

Our only real choice is to get another fiscally conservative Democrat in office to reverse the spending spree, but I fear even they won't be able to reverse the damage and will end up looking real bad in the process (like Clinton mopping up after 12 years of Bush/Reagan).  You want any more wars?  Buy liberty bonds.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7159|California

What the fuck do the Chinese do for us anyways?


oh wait...
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6844|North Carolina
...and people wonder why I say we should move all our Chinese trade to other countries... 

You just can't trust China.  We must move away from trading with them, and we should ban all food from China and Mexico (since they have many of the same sanitation problems).
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7039|132 and Bush

Harmor wrote:

What if we just stopped recognizing the Chinese debt?
lol.. it doesn't work that way.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Shopvac
If it doesn't say shop-vac keep shopping!
+25|6978|Grand Rapids, MI
I was just in Shanghai and Beijing last December. Catbox is right about the pollution . . . it's a mother fucker in Shanghai. Any way, Does anyone else think that this slue of bad imports into the United States is actually just a political tactic to try and strong arm Beijing? I think that the quality of our Chinese imports has not changed in the last 8 - 12 years; and everything we're reading about now is actually a political maneuver from Washington. Agree Disagree?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6844|North Carolina

Shopvac wrote:

I was just in Shanghai and Beijing last December. Catbox is right about the pollution . . . it's a mother fucker in Shanghai. Any way, Does anyone else think that this slue of bad imports into the United States is actually just a political tactic to try and strong arm Beijing? I think that the quality of our Chinese imports has not changed in the last 8 - 12 years; and everything we're reading about now is actually a political maneuver from Washington. Agree Disagree?
That's probably true, but it doesn't change the fact that most Chinese goods are crap.
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6918|Somewhere else

The U.S. or China, pissing on eachother too much to and extent that starts a war would only end in a global war where everyone will lose.

M.A.D.


Both parties know it, and won't take it that direction.

Last edited by RoosterCantrell (2007-08-10 16:27:52)

Commie Killer
Member
+192|6826

RoosterCantrell wrote:

The U.S. or China, pissing on eachother too much to and extent that starts a war would only end in a global war where everyone will lose.

M.A.D.


Both parties know it, and won't take it that direction.
Since when do politicians think logically?

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