Watch this documentary and don't post without watching it. Would you like to live like this?
I guess after so many centuries having the shit beaten out of them for being jews they've decided to do a bit of their own evil. Thankfully it's just the Zionists, rather than all subscribers of Judaism.
Everybody in that region needs to settle the fuck down and learn to get along. What's the problem with sharing anyway? Btw that vid is a bit biased. It shows extremists on one side and normal people on the other. A decent doco would show the extremists and normal people on both sides. Wouldn't mind links to videos of the rest of it.
Everybody in that region needs to settle the fuck down and learn to get along. What's the problem with sharing anyway? Btw that vid is a bit biased. It shows extremists on one side and normal people on the other. A decent doco would show the extremists and normal people on both sides. Wouldn't mind links to videos of the rest of it.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
It would suck to live there. So, no, I wouldn't want to live like that.
I have 3 documentaries on Palestine/Israel - one of them is biased towards Palestine - very strong arguments for them. Another is neutral, but a British camera man gets shot - not by a random terrorist group, but by an Israeli APC, right through the neck. The third was towards the Israeli side, but somehow still managed to convince me even more of how terrible their occupation is.
-konfusion
-konfusion
No, it would suck. Any other questions?sergeriver wrote:
Would you like to live like this?
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-12-07 13:38:13)
I didn't say it was.Dilbert_X wrote:
That is no excuse, still Israel won't last if they continue like this.I guess after so many centuries having the shit beaten out of them for being jews they've decided to do a bit of their own evil.
The ends don't always justify the means. I don't advocate 'ethnic cleansing' as a method of attaining peace between 'two' war-torn countries.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
You start with the faulty premise that we aren't meant to be this way.
Of course not who would want to live in a world of shit? Did you expect anyone to answer yes :rollseyes:
Of course not who would want to live in a world of shit? Did you expect anyone to answer yes :rollseyes:
No, and I thank god for democratization.
For some reason, I was hoping that the second video would be the other (Israeli) side of the argument.
Silly me.
Silly me.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
You're welcome to provide said argument.FEOS wrote:
For some reason, I was hoping that the second video would be the other (Israeli) side of the argument.
Silly me.
I can't see how settlements on Palestinian land are justified though.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
I would like to see the other side. I'm not Israeli, nor am I a documentary filmmaker.
However, I will look for it. Someone has to try to provide some mechanism for balanced debate vice a slick, well-made documentary that tells a single side of a complex situation.
However, I will look for it. Someone has to try to provide some mechanism for balanced debate vice a slick, well-made documentary that tells a single side of a complex situation.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Serge isn't Palestinian, nor is he a doco maker. That's why I suggested you have a dig around.FEOS wrote:
I would like to see the other side. I'm not Israeli, nor am I a documentary filmmaker.
However, I will look for it. Someone has to try to provide some mechanism for balanced debate vice a slick, well-made documentary that tells a single side of a complex situation.
Funny how Serge is so anti-Zionist, considering his Jewish backround. Heard about the Jews against Zionism movement Serge?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
what people seem to be forgetting here is that no one country has a right to any land. period. it will always go to the stronger group, and thats the way it goes.
look back at the imperial ages. the sun always shined on the British empire and all that crap. why? because they were able to take the land, and hold it. eventually, they became too weak to take it. and the fact of the matter is, its nobody else's (countrywise) business as to who holds that land, unless they want in on it as well. case in point? America and its containment policies. it failed in Vietnam, it mostly failed in Korea. as well, one can look at the former USSR and its interest in Afghanistan.
look back at the imperial ages. the sun always shined on the British empire and all that crap. why? because they were able to take the land, and hold it. eventually, they became too weak to take it. and the fact of the matter is, its nobody else's (countrywise) business as to who holds that land, unless they want in on it as well. case in point? America and its containment policies. it failed in Vietnam, it mostly failed in Korea. as well, one can look at the former USSR and its interest in Afghanistan.
That's one hell of a way to justify human cruelty to other humans.Ender2309 wrote:
what people seem to be forgetting here is that no one country has a right to any land. period. it will always go to the stronger group, and thats the way it goes.
look back at the imperial ages. the sun always shined on the British empire and all that crap. why? because they were able to take the land, and hold it. eventually, they became too weak to take it. and the fact of the matter is, its nobody else's (countrywise) business as to who holds that land, unless they want in on it as well. case in point? America and its containment policies. it failed in Vietnam, it mostly failed in Korea. as well, one can look at the former USSR and its interest in Afghanistan.
So you supported the Nazi Third Riech then? I mean all they were after was more land. You know that war they started?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
no, i don't support the cruelty, or the third riech. the major difference is that Hitler's intentions were more the extermination of the jews than the actual gathering of land.Flecco wrote:
That's one hell of a way to justify human cruelty to other humans.Ender2309 wrote:
what people seem to be forgetting here is that no one country has a right to any land. period. it will always go to the stronger group, and thats the way it goes.
look back at the imperial ages. the sun always shined on the British empire and all that crap. why? because they were able to take the land, and hold it. eventually, they became too weak to take it. and the fact of the matter is, its nobody else's (countrywise) business as to who holds that land, unless they want in on it as well. case in point? America and its containment policies. it failed in Vietnam, it mostly failed in Korea. as well, one can look at the former USSR and its interest in Afghanistan.
So you supported the Nazi Third Riech then? I mean all they were after was more land. You know that war they started?
what I'm saying is that we have no right to decide who deserves the land, but as long as country A is going to fight back against country B, people will die. now, if the Israelis were planning on the total annihilation of all of Palestine's people then it would be one thing. but they aren't.
I'd also like to point out that Palestine was under duress even before Israel was formed, mostly by the Arab nations.
I never said he was any of those things. I was commenting on the "documentary" that was posted, not on the poster.Flecco wrote:
Serge isn't Palestinian, nor is he a doco maker. That's why I suggested you have a dig around.FEOS wrote:
I would like to see the other side. I'm not Israeli, nor am I a documentary filmmaker.
However, I will look for it. Someone has to try to provide some mechanism for balanced debate vice a slick, well-made documentary that tells a single side of a complex situation.
Funny how Serge is so anti-Zionist, considering his Jewish backround. Heard about the Jews against Zionism movement Serge?
Fuck this. I'm not digging any more. Too damn depressing...too much hatred on both sides to find a rational discussion on either.
No documentary is going to make me think it's OK to strap bombs to sick women and kids with Down Syndrome, then send them into cafes and markets crowded with non-combatants and blow them all to pieces. No documentary is going to make me think it's justified to lob rockets into civilian settlements, regardless of how they got there. No documentary is going to make me empathize with a people who torpedo every chance for peace that they've ever had, simply because Israel feels they have a right to exist as a nation.
And I don't need a documentary to make me understand that Israel plays with an unnecessarily heavy hand at times, as well.
Last edited by FEOS (2007-12-07 19:54:20)
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Which is why the international community should put incredible pressure on Arab nations to foment a peace accord. It can't be done with just Palestinian and Israeli backing, a peace plan must be endorsed and developed by the nations in the region. At least Anwar Sadat was taking a step in the right direction, as was Yitzhak Rabin - and both were killed by their own people.Ender2309 wrote:
I'd also like to point out that Palestine was under duress even before Israel was formed, mostly by the Arab nations.
Wrong on the first point in a sense. You speak of them as if they are mutually exclusive - you can't have on without the other. In thsi case it is plainly obvious that Hitler had territorial ambitions.Ender2309 wrote:
no, i don't support the cruelty, or the third riech. the major difference is that Hitler's intentions were more the extermination of the jews than the actual gathering of land.Flecco wrote:
That's one hell of a way to justify human cruelty to other humans.Ender2309 wrote:
what people seem to be forgetting here is that no one country has a right to any land. period. it will always go to the stronger group, and thats the way it goes.
look back at the imperial ages. the sun always shined on the British empire and all that crap. why? because they were able to take the land, and hold it. eventually, they became too weak to take it. and the fact of the matter is, its nobody else's (countrywise) business as to who holds that land, unless they want in on it as well. case in point? America and its containment policies. it failed in Vietnam, it mostly failed in Korea. as well, one can look at the former USSR and its interest in Afghanistan.
So you supported the Nazi Third Riech then? I mean all they were after was more land. You know that war they started?
what I'm saying is that we have no right to decide who deserves the land, but as long as country A is going to fight back against country B, people will die. now, if the Israelis were planning on the total annihilation of all of Palestine's people then it would be one thing. but they aren't.
I'd also like to point out that Palestine was under duress even before Israel was formed, mostly by the Arab nations.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
perhaps i didn't make my point clearly.Spark wrote:
Wrong on the first point in a sense. You speak of them as if they are mutually exclusive - you can't have on without the other. In thsi case it is plainly obvious that Hitler had territorial ambitions.Ender2309 wrote:
no, i don't support the cruelty, or the third riech. the major difference is that Hitler's intentions were more the extermination of the jews than the actual gathering of land.
what I'm saying is that we have no right to decide who deserves the land, but as long as country A is going to fight back against country B, people will die. now, if the Israelis were planning on the total annihilation of all of Palestine's people then it would be one thing. but they aren't.
I'd also like to point out that Palestine was under duress even before Israel was formed, mostly by the Arab nations.
he was certainly after territorial gains, anybody who denies this is ignorant or stupid. but unlike most imperial campaigns, hitler was actually out for ethnic cleansing. he was psychotic. thats what sets him out from the current territorial issue. one had purely evil intentions behind it, at least in part. the other is just out for land.
@Ken-jennings: thats the best thing i've heard in the entire thread.
First off, I didn't make the documentary, lol Feos.Flecco wrote:
Serge isn't Palestinian, nor is he a doco maker. That's why I suggested you have a dig around.FEOS wrote:
I would like to see the other side. I'm not Israeli, nor am I a documentary filmmaker.
However, I will look for it. Someone has to try to provide some mechanism for balanced debate vice a slick, well-made documentary that tells a single side of a complex situation.
Funny how Serge is so anti-Zionist, considering his Jewish background. Heard about the Jews against Zionism movement Serge?
@Flecco, my Jewish background is just my last name, I don't practice Judaism coz I hate Religion, although most people of my family do. And I know there are a lot of Jews against Zionists. Why do you think that is? Coz they know Zionists give all the Jews a bad name. People who call me anti-Semite for defending Palestine is so full of shit, they are fuckin' Semites too. I'm not biased against Israel, I was taught since I was a child that "our people" had suffered a lot and this and that. Now, "our people" are doing the same things they suffered to the Palestinians. How is that possible I don't know.
Both deserve the land. Israel and Palestine deserve to live there. The problem is Israel occupying West Bank, Gaza and E. Jerusalem. They conduct apartheid policies and they should know better how it feels living in a ghetto.Ender2309 wrote:
no, i don't support the cruelty, or the third riech. the major difference is that Hitler's intentions were more the extermination of the jews than the actual gathering of land.Flecco wrote:
That's one hell of a way to justify human cruelty to other humans.Ender2309 wrote:
what people seem to be forgetting here is that no one country has a right to any land. period. it will always go to the stronger group, and thats the way it goes.
look back at the imperial ages. the sun always shined on the British empire and all that crap. why? because they were able to take the land, and hold it. eventually, they became too weak to take it. and the fact of the matter is, its nobody else's (countrywise) business as to who holds that land, unless they want in on it as well. case in point? America and its containment policies. it failed in Vietnam, it mostly failed in Korea. as well, one can look at the former USSR and its interest in Afghanistan.
So you supported the Nazi Third Riech then? I mean all they were after was more land. You know that war they started?
what I'm saying is that we have no right to decide who deserves the land, but as long as country A is going to fight back against country B, people will die. now, if the Israelis were planning on the total annihilation of all of Palestine's people then it would be one thing. but they aren't.
I'd also like to point out that Palestine was under duress even before Israel was formed, mostly by the Arab nations.
Last edited by sergeriver (2007-12-08 03:06:27)
Nobody said those things were fine. This documentary doesn't advocate terrorism, this documentary shows how is living under the occupation of another country. That is for all those out there saying the Palestinians don't do a shit with their land, look at Israel. Well, they can't do shit coz they are not allowed.FEOS wrote:
I never said he was any of those things. I was commenting on the "documentary" that was posted, not on the poster.Flecco wrote:
Serge isn't Palestinian, nor is he a doco maker. That's why I suggested you have a dig around.FEOS wrote:
I would like to see the other side. I'm not Israeli, nor am I a documentary filmmaker.
However, I will look for it. Someone has to try to provide some mechanism for balanced debate vice a slick, well-made documentary that tells a single side of a complex situation.
Funny how Serge is so anti-Zionist, considering his Jewish backround. Heard about the Jews against Zionism movement Serge?
Fuck this. I'm not digging any more. Too damn depressing...too much hatred on both sides to find a rational discussion on either.
No documentary is going to make me think it's OK to strap bombs to sick women and kids with Down Syndrome, then send them into cafes and markets crowded with non-combatants and blow them all to pieces. No documentary is going to make me think it's justified to lob rockets into civilian settlements, regardless of how they got there. No documentary is going to make me empathize with a people who torpedo every chance for peace that they've ever had, simply because Israel feels they have a right to exist as a nation.
And I don't need a documentary to make me understand that Israel plays with an unnecessarily heavy hand at times, as well.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-12-08 06:27:49)
But that's the inherent problem with such a biased "documentary". It makes a very complex issue look overly simplistic: The Israelis are oppressing the Palestinians. OK. That's one perspective. Where is the other side? Why are the Israelis taking these actions? Or--more importantly--why do the Israelis feel they need to take these actions?sergeriver wrote:
Nobody said those things were fine. This documentary doesn't advocate terrorism, this documentary shows how is living under the occupation of another country. That is for all those out there saying the Palestinians don't do a shit with their land, look at Israel. Well, they can't do shit coz they are not allowed.
A good, worthwhile documentary is even-handed...explaining (as best possible) all sides of a situation. That was just pro-Palestinian propaganda.
It's not that I don't sympathize with the Palestinians...they are in a horrible situation. But they are not lily-white here. Both sides would be better served by an objective look at the situation...if such a thing is possible any more.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Feos, pls you must admit that most Palestinians, like 99.98% are pacific people. So, wtf is Israel doing? I don't advocate the 0.02% of terrorists, but the all the pacific people don't deserve to pay for the actions of this tiny minority. Don't you agree it's totally unfair?FEOS wrote:
But that's the inherent problem with such a biased "documentary". It makes a very complex issue look overly simplistic: The Israelis are oppressing the Palestinians. OK. That's one perspective. Where is the other side? Why are the Israelis taking these actions? Or--more importantly--why do the Israelis feel they need to take these actions?sergeriver wrote:
Nobody said those things were fine. This documentary doesn't advocate terrorism, this documentary shows how is living under the occupation of another country. That is for all those out there saying the Palestinians don't do a shit with their land, look at Israel. Well, they can't do shit coz they are not allowed.
A good, worthwhile documentary is even-handed...explaining (as best possible) all sides of a situation. That was just pro-Palestinian propaganda.
It's not that I don't sympathize with the Palestinians...they are in a horrible situation. But they are not lily-white here. Both sides would be better served by an objective look at the situation...if such a thing is possible any more.
Last edited by sergeriver (2007-12-08 15:05:15)