Pages: 1 2

 

2007-12-24 14:15:56
b.branscombe
Member
+5|6679
Okay, so BF2 and TF2 are both giving me artifacts while I play.  Nothing major, but after playing for a while they get bad enough to be annoying.  I also get a bit of lag playing BF2 now and then.  The computer is a dell (I know) and about 2 years old, but I'd like to know what the best recommendation would be for an upgrade that's not too expensive (ie no 8800GT).  I just looking for something that will eliminate the issues I have now, and then will be able to cut it if I buy any of the new shooters coming out.  If there's any specs missing for the list that are needed just let me know.  Could simply adding more fans cool the video card enough to eliminate the artifacts?


Intel Core 2 CPU (Dual-Core)   6400 @ 2.13GHz
2x Kingston 1GB DDR2 (slots for 2 more I think)
NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS

According to the diagnostic program I have installed, the CPU and the video card are running 50-55C while idle just doing internet browsing type stuff.  I don't know what it gets up to while gaming.

Thanks in advance for any help.
2007-12-24 14:19:51
_NL_Lt.EngineerFox
Big Mouth Prick
+219|7008|Golf 1.8 GTI Wolfsburg Edition
ATI Radeon 3850 should keep you satisfied.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6814129101
2007-12-24 14:20:08
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|7016|Long Island, New York
My 8800 GTX was artifacting recently as well...and it's not even a year old. Simple solution - Use compressed air to blow the dust out. Worked like a charm for me.

If you're not willing to spend money for an 8800 GT that's 200-something dollars, you might as well stick with the 7900 GS. Everything below the price of the 8800 GT will be a low end card (8600's, 8400's).
2007-12-24 14:28:22
b.branscombe
Member
+5|6679
A quick search on tigerdirect said the cheapest I could get an 8800GT was $250, so out of my range at this point.  I've never done compressed air on this computer (have had it for 2 years), so maybe that's the problem.  I'll pick some up soon.  What other components should I blow out while I'm at it?

Thanks.
2007-12-24 14:32:24
NeXuS
Shock it till ya know it
+375|6819|Atlanta, Georgia
whats artifacting?
2007-12-24 19:04:16
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|7016|Long Island, New York

NeXuS4909 wrote:

whats artifacting?
It's basically when your screen shows up all jaggedy and unable to be viewed.

And b.branscombe - if you haven't cleaned it out in 2 years, you REALLY need to. Just go pick up a can of compressed air at Best Buy or any other electronics or hardware store. They'll know what you mean. It's not that expensive.
2007-12-24 19:55:48
aimless
Member
+166|6603|Texas

Poseidon wrote:

NeXuS4909 wrote:

whats artifacting?
It's basically when your screen shows up all jaggedy and unable to be viewed.

And b.branscombe - if you haven't cleaned it out in 2 years, you REALLY need to. Just go pick up a can of compressed air at Best Buy or any other electronics or hardware store. They'll know what you mean. It's not that expensive.
Be sure to use a vacuum to pick up all the blown around dust, or else its gonna get stuck somewhere else.
2007-12-24 20:28:01
b.branscombe
Member
+5|6679
Artifacting:  (Not my Pic)

https://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2406/bf2142mf9.jpg

Last edited by b.branscombe (2007-12-25 16:51:27)

2007-12-25 07:54:18
b.branscombe
Member
+5|6679
So I was looking around, and I'm seeing that RAM sticks are really cheap.  Would adding an extra 2gb decrease my lag, or would I just be wasting my money (that could be saved and put towards an 8800)?
2007-12-25 08:01:34
']['error
Banned
+630|7122|The Netherlands

b.branscombe wrote:

So I was looking around, and I'm seeing that RAM sticks are really cheap.  Would adding an extra 2gb decrease my lag, or would I just be wasting my money (that could be saved and put towards an 8800)?
battlefield will like 2 gigs of ram, you can play on high settings then

try cleaning your computer with compressed air, maybe that'll help against the artifacting.
2007-12-25 08:07:27
geNius
..!.,
+144|6920|SoCal

']['error wrote:

b.branscombe wrote:

So I was looking around, and I'm seeing that RAM sticks are really cheap.  Would adding an extra 2gb decrease my lag, or would I just be wasting my money (that could be saved and put towards an 8800)?
battlefield will like 2 gigs of ram, you can play on high settings then

try cleaning your computer with compressed air, maybe that'll help against the artifacting.
2gb is enough; I'd spend the money on a video card.

Also, my second system is running an e6400.  I've had it overclocked to 3.0GHz for about 5 mos. now on the stock air cooler, and it takes gaming like a champ.  You may want to consider overclocking it FTW.
https://srejects.com/genius/srejects.png
2007-12-25 08:27:55
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7244|Cambridge (UK)

b.branscombe wrote:

Okay, so BF2 and TF2 are both giving me artifacts while I play.  Nothing major, but after playing for a while they get bad enough to be annoying.  I also get a bit of lag playing BF2 now and then.  The computer is a dell (I know) and about 2 years old, but I'd like to know what the best recommendation would be for an upgrade that's not too expensive (ie no 8800GT).  I just looking for something that will eliminate the issues I have now, and then will be able to cut it if I buy any of the new shooters coming out.  If there's any specs missing for the list that are needed just let me know.  Could simply adding more fans cool the video card enough to eliminate the artifacts?


Intel Core 2 CPU (Dual-Core)   6400 @ 2.13GHz
2x Kingston 1GB DDR2 (slots for 2 more I think)
NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GS

According to the diagnostic program I have installed, the CPU and the video card are running 50-55C while idle just doing internet browsing type stuff.  I don't know what it gets up to while gaming.

Thanks in advance for any help.

b.branscombe wrote:

Artifacting:

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2406/bf2142mf9.jpg
Before you go spending money where it may not be needed, you need to figure out, for sure, what's causing the artifacting.

1. Use memtest86 to check your RAM.
2. Use Hitachi Drive Fitness Test to check you HDD.
3. Use ATITool and run 3DMark06 to check your video-card.
4. Use Sandra to do a burn in test.


It is possible all the artifacting is being actually being caused by data corrpution being caused by either bad RAM or a HDD issue, rather than the video card - so that's the first thing to check. If your RAM and HDD checks out OK, then you need to put your video card through its paces whilst monitoring for temp issues and/or artifacting. If that seems fine, then a burn-in will check overall system stability under load - Sandra won't load the video card much, but it will put everything else under high load - again watch temps and monitor for 'issues'.


OK, if all that seems to be OK, it could just be a driver issue - make sure you're completely up-to-date on drivers for all components - yes, even things that are not directly graphics-related.


If all that doesn't reveal the weak-point, it is then time to start diagnosing the issue with money (going through each component one at a time and getting replacements, so you can hopefully find the culprit by swapping it out) - if it does come to that, suspect your PSU first and fore-most, then video card, then RAM/HDD, then mobo/CPU.


Lastly, if all the testing throws up the situation where you think it is the video card, but it doesn't always have issues, and seems to start happening after a while, and then get worse. Again, actually suspect you PSU first and foremost, then video card, then RAM/HDD, then mobo/CPU.


Bad PSU's can be the cause of countless 'phantom' symptoms and they're relatively cheap to replace, so even if it turns out not to be that, it's a not a huge hit to the pocket to find out.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-12-25 08:38:31)

2007-12-25 16:17:40
b.branscombe
Member
+5|6679
Updates:

1. Found out today that my brother blew out everything in the computer with compressed air the day before the original post but didn't tell me.  So that's been done.  I think it helped a bit, but the problem is still there.

2. Ran memtest86+ and no errors showed up.  There should really be a disclaimer on the website that says that the program will run indefinitely until you reboot your computer.  10 passes and 4.5 hours later I was wondering when it was going to finally stop. Oops.

3. I ran the DFT and it couldn't find my hard drive, which is odd.  I ran the hard drive diagnostic that was in the boot menu, and it said it passed, but maybe the hard drive isn't hooked up correctly, and that's giving me some problems?  Some insight here would be really appreciated.

4. Had ATITool running in the background, then ran 3DMark06, but wasn't sure what exactly to do with ATITool.  Did it create a log of the 3dMark06 or something?  I'll post some screens from the 3DMark online log shortly.


I haven't run the last test yet, but I'll update when I do.

Again, thanks a lot.

Last edited by b.branscombe (2007-12-25 17:22:13)

2007-12-26 03:38:28
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7244|Cambridge (UK)

b.branscombe wrote:

Updates:

1. Found out today that my brother blew out everything in the computer with compressed air the day before the original post but didn't tell me.  So that's been done.  I think it helped a bit, but the problem is still there.

2. Ran memtest86+ and no errors showed up.  There should really be a disclaimer on the website that says that the program will run indefinitely until you reboot your computer.  10 passes and 4.5 hours later I was wondering when it was going to finally stop. Oops.
You did good. Bad ram will usually show up in the first pass, but it's good to let it do at least 5 passes to be sure.

b.branscombe wrote:

3. I ran the DFT and it couldn't find my hard drive, which is odd.  I ran the hard drive diagnostic that was in the boot menu, and it said it passed, but maybe the hard drive isn't hooked up correctly, and that's giving me some problems?  Some insight here would be really appreciated.
Ah, ok. That's probably actually not a problem - DFT doesn't support all HDDs, just most...
Do you know what make and model your HDD(s) is/are?

b.branscombe wrote:

4. Had ATITool running in the background, then ran 3DMark06, but wasn't sure what exactly to do with ATITool.  Did it create a log of the 3dMark06 or something?  I'll post some screens from the 3DMark online log shortly.
Ok, sorry, yeah, should have explained ATITool some - OK, ATITools will do lots of things, that you'd be best just avoiding at the moment (such as overclocking your card), but the one thing that it does that you will find usefull is that it will monitor and log the temps of your video card - launch ATITool, then click Settings, then in the drop-down box at the top of the settings dialog, select 'Monitor Temperatures' - select the appropriate settings in there and then click back and leave ATITool running in the background when you run 3DMark, a game, or whatever.
2007-12-26 05:02:18
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7059|SE London

This is no great mystery. The system is pretty obviously running way, way too hot. 50-55C while idling are verging on CPU breakpoint (since those temps will probably rise by 20-30C while under prolonged load - dependent on your ambient temp).

Getting persistent artifacting over a variety of titles demonstrates the GPU is also way too hot (most likely scenario, considering CPU temps).

Using your PC while it runs at these temperatures is damaging to it. If you persist in gaming on it without providing an adequate cooling solution, it WILL break. Then you won't be looking at a cheap cooling solution, but at buying a whole load of new, expensive, parts.

Fix those temps, NOW! A quick solution is often to open the side of your case and use a decent powered desk fan to keep things cool - it does work, don't listen to people going on about opening your case being bad for air flow (which it is usually - but with a 15" fan blowing air over you components, it isn't).

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-12-26 05:04:33)

2007-12-26 08:57:00
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7244|Cambridge (UK)
Bertster, whilst there is a good chance that you are correct, their are a number of issues than can cause in-game artifacting - all can be checked and eliminated easily, where as solving a heat issue isn't quite as simple as opening up the side and turn a desk fan on - now, whilst 50-55C is a tad warm, video-cards can easily withstand higher temperatures than that. The question is not so much about what temperature it idles at, but what happens to the temperatures under load conditions. This information will tell us what is going on with the video card when it artifacts.

b.branscombe, set up ATITool to log temps and run 3DMark06 - watch the tests too - you need to be looking out for any artifacting - any artifacting at all - and make a rough note of the time(s) when it happened - then afterwards, open the ATITool temp log (IIRC, it's in the main program files/... directory (or a subfolder) somewhere) and check what the gpu temps were doing - particularly at any times when it artifacts.

If the gpu temp just rises and rises and rises, then the issue is likely to be air-flow through the case - if that is the case, try Bertsters suggestion...
If the temps stay OK, but then suddenly rise, it could be a sticky gpu fan - I don't know your particular video card, but they can often be easily replaced, and a good 3rdparty video-card cooler would help with any other thermal issues.

Oh and, Sandra - just run the 'Burn-in' test - and again, it's like memtest in that you should just leave it running for a while - 5 or so passes should suffice - if it doesn't fall over, that's a good thing.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-12-26 09:01:04)

2007-12-26 12:10:35
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7059|SE London

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Bertster, whilst there is a good chance that you are correct, their are a number of issues than can cause in-game artifacting - all can be checked and eliminated easily, where as solving a heat issue isn't quite as simple as opening up the side and turn a desk fan on - now, whilst 50-55C is a tad warm, video-cards can easily withstand higher temperatures than that. The question is not so much about what temperature it idles at, but what happens to the temperatures under load conditions. This information will tell us what is going on with the video card when it artifacts.

b.branscombe, set up ATITool to log temps and run 3DMark06 - watch the tests too - you need to be looking out for any artifacting - any artifacting at all - and make a rough note of the time(s) when it happened - then afterwards, open the ATITool temp log (IIRC, it's in the main program files/... directory (or a subfolder) somewhere) and check what the gpu temps were doing - particularly at any times when it artifacts.

If the gpu temp just rises and rises and rises, then the issue is likely to be air-flow through the case - if that is the case, try Bertsters suggestion...
If the temps stay OK, but then suddenly rise, it could be a sticky gpu fan - I don't know your particular video card, but they can often be easily replaced, and a good 3rdparty video-card cooler would help with any other thermal issues.

Oh and, Sandra - just run the 'Burn-in' test - and again, it's like memtest in that you should just leave it running for a while - 5 or so passes should suffice - if it doesn't fall over, that's a good thing.
GPU, ok - but the CPU idling at 55C is way too hot. That shows there are temperature issues, that means he needs cooling.

I appreciate that the graphics artifacting could be caused by something else - but since there already seem to be major heat issues, that would be my first port of call in trying to resolve the problem.
2007-12-26 13:06:19
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7244|Cambridge (UK)

Bertster7 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Bertster, whilst there is a good chance that you are correct, their are a number of issues than can cause in-game artifacting - all can be checked and eliminated easily, where as solving a heat issue isn't quite as simple as opening up the side and turn a desk fan on - now, whilst 50-55C is a tad warm, video-cards can easily withstand higher temperatures than that. The question is not so much about what temperature it idles at, but what happens to the temperatures under load conditions. This information will tell us what is going on with the video card when it artifacts.

b.branscombe, set up ATITool to log temps and run 3DMark06 - watch the tests too - you need to be looking out for any artifacting - any artifacting at all - and make a rough note of the time(s) when it happened - then afterwards, open the ATITool temp log (IIRC, it's in the main program files/... directory (or a subfolder) somewhere) and check what the gpu temps were doing - particularly at any times when it artifacts.

If the gpu temp just rises and rises and rises, then the issue is likely to be air-flow through the case - if that is the case, try Bertsters suggestion...
If the temps stay OK, but then suddenly rise, it could be a sticky gpu fan - I don't know your particular video card, but they can often be easily replaced, and a good 3rdparty video-card cooler would help with any other thermal issues.

Oh and, Sandra - just run the 'Burn-in' test - and again, it's like memtest in that you should just leave it running for a while - 5 or so passes should suffice - if it doesn't fall over, that's a good thing.
GPU, ok - but the CPU idling at 55C is way too hot. That shows there are temperature issues, that means he needs cooling.

I appreciate that the graphics artifacting could be caused by something else - but since there already seem to be major heat issues, that would be my first port of call in trying to resolve the problem.
Again, I would use the exact words 'way too hot' in reference to a CPU running at 50-55C, if it doesn't get any hotter under load.

Again - we need to know exactly what the problem is.

Heat yes, but bad fan/heatsink or poor circulation? We can't tell from what we currently know, therefore more information is required.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you here - I think you're right, but I don't quite get what objection you have to diagnosing the issue properly rather than jumping in with an "It's over heating" and not really saying much more than that?
2007-12-26 13:09:07
NeXuS
Shock it till ya know it
+375|6819|Atlanta, Georgia
What is this then?
https://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/merc4909/css-20070715-005227.jpg
2007-12-26 13:11:19
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7244|Cambridge (UK)

NeXuS4909 wrote:

What is this then?
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/ … 005227.jpg
That'll be an artifact.
2007-12-26 14:50:15
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7059|SE London

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Bertster, whilst there is a good chance that you are correct, their are a number of issues than can cause in-game artifacting - all can be checked and eliminated easily, where as solving a heat issue isn't quite as simple as opening up the side and turn a desk fan on - now, whilst 50-55C is a tad warm, video-cards can easily withstand higher temperatures than that. The question is not so much about what temperature it idles at, but what happens to the temperatures under load conditions. This information will tell us what is going on with the video card when it artifacts.

b.branscombe, set up ATITool to log temps and run 3DMark06 - watch the tests too - you need to be looking out for any artifacting - any artifacting at all - and make a rough note of the time(s) when it happened - then afterwards, open the ATITool temp log (IIRC, it's in the main program files/... directory (or a subfolder) somewhere) and check what the gpu temps were doing - particularly at any times when it artifacts.

If the gpu temp just rises and rises and rises, then the issue is likely to be air-flow through the case - if that is the case, try Bertsters suggestion...
If the temps stay OK, but then suddenly rise, it could be a sticky gpu fan - I don't know your particular video card, but they can often be easily replaced, and a good 3rdparty video-card cooler would help with any other thermal issues.

Oh and, Sandra - just run the 'Burn-in' test - and again, it's like memtest in that you should just leave it running for a while - 5 or so passes should suffice - if it doesn't fall over, that's a good thing.
GPU, ok - but the CPU idling at 55C is way too hot. That shows there are temperature issues, that means he needs cooling.

I appreciate that the graphics artifacting could be caused by something else - but since there already seem to be major heat issues, that would be my first port of call in trying to resolve the problem.
Again, I would use the exact words 'way too hot' in reference to a CPU running at 50-55C, if it doesn't get any hotter under load.

Again - we need to know exactly what the problem is.

Heat yes, but bad fan/heatsink or poor circulation? We can't tell from what we currently know, therefore more information is required.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you here - I think you're right, but I don't quite get what objection you have to diagnosing the issue properly rather than jumping in with an "It's over heating" and not really saying much more than that?
Because the most efficient way to deal with problems like this is to try to address the most likely simple fix first. Trying the system with additional cooling, reseating the CPU and redoing the thermal paste, heat stuff - is the quickest, most likely to work solution.

Excessive diagnosis is time consuming and usually pointless. In depth diagnosis typically takes more time than the fix itself takes. I don't know of any experienced engineers who would sit back diagnosing a problem when a probable quick fix is starring them in the face.

I think it's overheating. Testing that would take all of 5 mins. It's most likely poor circulation, since the GPU (or memory) seems to be affected too - which is why I suggested pulling the side off and pointing a desk fan in there. If that doesn't made any real impact to observed temps then try reseating the HSF on the CPU. I'd probably do a quick load test on the CPU too before all that, but nothing long term just 5 mins, enough for it to get warmed up, but not peak.

Doing hours of memory testing at this sort of early stage is just a waste of time.

I suppose I'm used to working within time constraints, but getting stuff fixed fast is always good. Repair efficiency is extremely important.
2007-12-30 16:04:58
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7244|Cambridge (UK)

Bertster7 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

GPU, ok - but the CPU idling at 55C is way too hot. That shows there are temperature issues, that means he needs cooling.

I appreciate that the graphics artifacting could be caused by something else - but since there already seem to be major heat issues, that would be my first port of call in trying to resolve the problem.
Again, I would use the exact words 'way too hot' in reference to a CPU running at 50-55C, if it doesn't get any hotter under load.

Again - we need to know exactly what the problem is.

Heat yes, but bad fan/heatsink or poor circulation? We can't tell from what we currently know, therefore more information is required.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you here - I think you're right, but I don't quite get what objection you have to diagnosing the issue properly rather than jumping in with an "It's over heating" and not really saying much more than that?
Because the most efficient way to deal with problems like this is to try to address the most likely simple fix first. Trying the system with additional cooling, reseating the CPU and redoing the thermal paste, heat stuff - is the quickest, most likely to work solution.

Excessive diagnosis is time consuming and usually pointless. In depth diagnosis typically takes more time than the fix itself takes. I don't know of any experienced engineers who would sit back diagnosing a problem when a probable quick fix is starring them in the face.

I think it's overheating. Testing that would take all of 5 mins. It's most likely poor circulation, since the GPU (or memory) seems to be affected too - which is why I suggested pulling the side off and pointing a desk fan in there. If that doesn't made any real impact to observed temps then try reseating the HSF on the CPU. I'd probably do a quick load test on the CPU too before all that, but nothing long term just 5 mins, enough for it to get warmed up, but not peak.

Doing hours of memory testing at this sort of early stage is just a waste of time.

I suppose I'm used to working within time constraints, but getting stuff fixed fast is always good. Repair efficiency is extremely important.
Potayto/Potarto...

The problem with the 'take the side off and use a desk fan" approach is that it doesn't actually solve the problem and can mask the true problem.

But as you say, you're used to doing this within time constraints - and in a similar situation I'd take the same approach as you - whereas I come from a software-dev and home-use background where fully diagnosing the problem in a methodical manner and getting it fixed 100% is more important than getting it done yesterday.


But, this is all ecumenical (no, what is the word I'm looking for?) and getting way off topic - b.branscombe - take my approach or bertsters - either way you need to do the same thing - check the individual component temps to work out what the cause of the issue is - is it airflow/specific-component-cooling/a-bad-component/other?

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-12-30 16:12:18)

2007-12-30 16:35:06
Freezer7Pro
I don't come here a lot anymore.
+1,447|6675|Winland

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Bertster, whilst there is a good chance that you are correct, their are a number of issues than can cause in-game artifacting - all can be checked and eliminated easily, where as solving a heat issue isn't quite as simple as opening up the side and turn a desk fan on - now, whilst 50-55C is a tad warm, video-cards can easily withstand higher temperatures than that. The question is not so much about what temperature it idles at, but what happens to the temperatures under load conditions. This information will tell us what is going on with the video card when it artifacts.

b.branscombe, set up ATITool to log temps and run 3DMark06 - watch the tests too - you need to be looking out for any artifacting - any artifacting at all - and make a rough note of the time(s) when it happened - then afterwards, open the ATITool temp log (IIRC, it's in the main program files/... directory (or a subfolder) somewhere) and check what the gpu temps were doing - particularly at any times when it artifacts.

If the gpu temp just rises and rises and rises, then the issue is likely to be air-flow through the case - if that is the case, try Bertsters suggestion...
If the temps stay OK, but then suddenly rise, it could be a sticky gpu fan - I don't know your particular video card, but they can often be easily replaced, and a good 3rdparty video-card cooler would help with any other thermal issues.

Oh and, Sandra - just run the 'Burn-in' test - and again, it's like memtest in that you should just leave it running for a while - 5 or so passes should suffice - if it doesn't fall over, that's a good thing.
GPU, ok - but the CPU idling at 55C is way too hot. That shows there are temperature issues, that means he needs cooling.

I appreciate that the graphics artifacting could be caused by something else - but since there already seem to be major heat issues, that would be my first port of call in trying to resolve the problem.
Again, I would use the exact words 'way too hot' in reference to a CPU running at 50-55C, if it doesn't get any hotter under load.

Again - we need to know exactly what the problem is.

Heat yes, but bad fan/heatsink or poor circulation? We can't tell from what we currently know, therefore more information is required.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you here - I think you're right, but I don't quite get what objection you have to diagnosing the issue properly rather than jumping in with an "It's over heating" and not really saying much more than that?
It's called a "Fan Controller".
The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP
2007-12-30 16:46:21
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|7027|UK

With Bertster7 here.  Besides, even if he is wrong (doubt it ) it's hardly going to be a bad thing improving on existing cooling solutions.

Martyn
2007-12-30 18:22:13
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7244|Cambridge (UK)

Bell wrote:

With Bertster7 here.  Besides, even if he is wrong (doubt it ) it's hardly going to be a bad thing improving on existing cooling solutions.

Martyn
true, true...


BTW, have wondered for a while - d'u wear white jackets?

 

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