CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6991
https://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=AjWJQicko6YzJwNjBoXMinVWBQx./SIG=11os1f05l/**http%3A//www.touchdownsouth.com/images/africa-map.jpg

Hi guys.

Please note above a map of the African continent.

Observe the lines delineating the various African countries.

See those lines? Well: they're complete bullshit and they're the reason sub-Saharan Africa will be a shithole until after I'm six feet under.

Those lines are post-colonial nonsense and the worst example of an attempt to implant western governance on former colonies. We are seeing the same thing in Iraq and other Arabic countries today.

Africa isn't populated by Africans or even by black people. It's populated with people with affiliations to a vast array of tribes. We all know about the Masai, the Zulus, the Hutus, the Tutsis, the Bushmen and the pygmies but they're just the tip of the iceberg. There are loads of distinct tribes and loads of distinct languages and cultures.

So what's wrong with the post-colonial lines on the map? Well: most of them split tribes in two or three, some confine two or more tribes to live under the same government - the vast majority paid no attention to the ethnic makeup of the African people. That is why we now see strife in Kenya, as one tribe turns on another because their candidate didn't get elected. That is why a genocide occurred in Rwanda. That is why a genocide is occurring in Sudan.

A similar situation existed in Europe up until WWII (with a few hangover problems in the Balkans to the present). What was the answer to the problem?

A continent wide war to finally set appropriate borders. That is what Africa needs also - let the warfare begin.
Mr.Dooomed
Find your center.
+752|6764

Did one of these people make you the country of Cameroon? It sounds nice. But really, with borders not how they should be, why do they fight over them any more? There needs to be some kind of peaceful intervention for them. Or, war is just in their blood now and will be for like you say, the foreseeable future?
Nature is a powerful force. Those who seek to subdue nature, never do so permanently.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7198

I could care less tbh.  I have been there many times in the military trying to help people.  No use.  Doesn't matter.  You blame lines, I blame religion.
avman633
Member
+116|6800
Why not just get rid of the borders and make Africa one huge country with a government representative from each tribe?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6991

avman633 wrote:

Why not just get rid of the borders and make Africa one huge country with a government representative from each tribe?
Big government is susceptible to corruption and would collapse rather rapidly I'd say. The more populous tribes would also bitch and moan. Not to mention the fact that the whole thing would impracticable.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-03 15:24:50)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7037|132 and Bush

Agreed.

Kmarion wrote:

..... the European colonialisms in the 19th and early 20th centuries forcing bad borders. Tens of millions of people who wish to live together are divided, and hundreds of thousands who wish to live apart are forced together. They did not take into account the amount of affinities or hatred of the local population.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7193|Argentina
The borders are there, that's a fact.  You can't ignore them.  The problem with Africa is different ethnics and Religions coexisting under the rule of corrupted politicians, who don't give a shit when a whole ethnic group is cleansed by another, most of the times with the help of said politicians.  These are the same corrupted politicians who only get to power to steal the resources Africa has, which are a lot.  These are the politicians that don't care when millions of people are starving and living in poverty while they enrich their Swiss bank accounts.  European colonialism is in the past, you can't blame Europe for the failures of these shitty politicians.  The solution would be a UN with enough power to remove this corrupted assholes from the face of the Earth, but we all know that won't happen.  So, yes Africa is screwed.
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6435|...
No, what makes africa this way is the huge amount of corrupt governments and elections, what we see in Kenya is a whole group of people probably fed up with all the corruption trying a rebellion. What you need to place in african countries is a allowed tyranicall government for a period of time to bring the economy and education of the people to a level on which you'd say they're able to form their own democracy. Pushing our western culture down the throat of people that can't have it yet won't work, a democracy in states like Kenya will not work for the moment. Hence you need to find a government that actually helps the country on all sides long-term untill it's ready for democracy with elections.
inane little opines
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7080

sergeriver wrote:

The borders are there, that's a fact.  You can't ignore them.  The problem with Africa is different ethnics and Religions coexisting under the rule of corrupted politicians, who don't give a shit when a whole ethnic group is cleansed by another, most of the times with the help of said politicians.  These are the same corrupted politicians who only get to power to steal the resources Africa has, which are a lot.  These are the politicians that don't care when millions of people are starving and living in poverty while they enrich their Swiss bank accounts.  European colonialism is in the past, you can't blame Europe for the failures of these shitty politicians.  The solution would be a UN with enough power to remove this corrupted assholes from the face of the Earth, but we all know that won't happen.  So, yes Africa is screwed.
what do expect out of a region with zero polititcal tradition.  all they have seen in africa is "might is right"



p.s.  Ron Paul wants the United States out of the UN.  the UN will crumble without the United States.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6991

sergeriver wrote:

The borders are there, that's a fact.  You can't ignore them.  The problem with Africa is different ethnics and Religions coexisting under the rule of corrupted politicians, who don't give a shit when a whole ethnic group is cleansed by another, most of the times with the help of said politicians.  These are the same corrupted politicians who only get to power to steal the resources Africa has, which are a lot.  These are the politicians that don't care when millions of people are starving and living in poverty while they enrich their Swiss bank accounts.  European colonialism is in the past, you can't blame Europe for the failures of these shitty politicians.  The solution would be a UN with enough power to remove this corrupted assholes from the face of the Earth, but we all know that won't happen.  So, yes Africa is screwed.
The borders are not perpetual serge, that's my point. Poland used to lie several hundred miles further east I seem to recall...
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7080
"we didnt cross the border, the border crossed us"
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6889|Ontario, Canada
No offense Cameron, but I think a majority learned this in high school.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6954|Montucky

CameronPoe wrote:

A continent wide war to finally set appropriate borders. That is what Africa needs also - let the warfare begin.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7193|Argentina

CameronPoe wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

The borders are there, that's a fact.  You can't ignore them.  The problem with Africa is different ethnics and Religions coexisting under the rule of corrupted politicians, who don't give a shit when a whole ethnic group is cleansed by another, most of the times with the help of said politicians.  These are the same corrupted politicians who only get to power to steal the resources Africa has, which are a lot.  These are the politicians that don't care when millions of people are starving and living in poverty while they enrich their Swiss bank accounts.  European colonialism is in the past, you can't blame Europe for the failures of these shitty politicians.  The solution would be a UN with enough power to remove this corrupted assholes from the face of the Earth, but we all know that won't happen.  So, yes Africa is screwed.
The borders are not perpetual serge, that's my point. Poland used to lie several hundred miles further east I seem to recall...
How do you redefine the borders?  With civil, tribal and ethnic wars.  That's what's going on right now in many places.  The borders are there, take them or fight a war to change them.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7037|132 and Bush

They set it up Serge, that's all I'm saying. For that I will blame them. It was like placing a time bomb in a room full of people and locking the doors.

However, todays leaders have failed in properly addressing the circumstances and creating the escalation.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7193|Argentina

Kmarion wrote:

They set it up Serge, that's all I'm saying. For that I will blame them. It was like placing a time bomb in a room full of people and locking the doors.

However, todays leaders have failed in properly addressing the circumstances and creating the escalation.
Agreed.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6991

sergeriver wrote:

How do you redefine the borders?  With civil, tribal and ethnic wars.  That's what's going on right now in many places.  The borders are there, take them or fight a war to change them.
That's what I'm advocating: a continent-wide war to sort out this shit.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7193|Argentina

CameronPoe wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

How do you redefine the borders?  With civil, tribal and ethnic wars.  That's what's going on right now in many places.  The borders are there, take them or fight a war to change them.
That's what I'm advocating: a continent-wide war to sort out this shit.
That'll cost a lot of lives.  But I guess there's no point in continuing like this, anyway.  So, let there be rock.
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6435|...

CameronPoe wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

How do you redefine the borders?  With civil, tribal and ethnic wars.  That's what's going on right now in many places.  The borders are there, take them or fight a war to change them.
That's what I'm advocating: a continent-wide war to sort out this shit.
but we all know that if there's a continent wide war we as western people will involve ourselves in it and probably screw the whole thing up, if there has to be a continent wide war we damn well stay out of it.
inane little opines
David.P
Banned
+649|6710

CameronPoe wrote:

That is why a genocide is occurring in Sudan.
Is'nt it because the religion of peace does'nt like their peaceful christian and animist neighbors? Or am i in a parallel universe right now in which religion is not the reason for genocide in Darfur?
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6991

David.P wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

That is why a genocide is occurring in Sudan.
Is'nt it because the religion of peace does'nt like their peaceful christian and animist neighbors? Or am i in a parallel universe right now in which religion is not the reason for genocide in Darfur?
No it's because Arabs are trying to take fertile grassland on the edge of the Sahara for their own benefit. The Sahara isn't known for a great wealth of resources. But I guess such nuances generally pass you by...

The combination of decades of drought, desertification, and overpopulation are among the causes of the Darfur conflict, because the Baggara nomads searching for water have to take their livestock further south, to land mainly occupied by non-Arab farming communities.
Pull your head out of your ass.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-03 15:51:05)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7037|132 and Bush

dayarath wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

How do you redefine the borders?  With civil, tribal and ethnic wars.  That's what's going on right now in many places.  The borders are there, take them or fight a war to change them.
That's what I'm advocating: a continent-wide war to sort out this shit.
but we all know that if there's a continent wide war we as western people will involve ourselves in it and probably screw the whole thing up, if there has to be a continent wide war we damn well stay out of it.
It won't happen. The entire continent of Africa at war would jeopardize the strategic and national interest of the entire world.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6936|so randum

David.P wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

That is why a genocide is occurring in Sudan.
Is'nt it because the religion of peace does'nt like their peaceful christian and animist neighbors? Or am i in a parallel universe right now in which religion is not the reason for genocide in Darfur?
Not being rude or offensive, but do you only ever post when you can stick in something about Muslims?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7193|Argentina

FatherTed wrote:

David.P wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

That is why a genocide is occurring in Sudan.
Is'nt it because the religion of peace does'nt like their peaceful christian and animist neighbors? Or am i in a parallel universe right now in which religion is not the reason for genocide in Darfur?
Not being rude or offensive, but do you only ever post when you can stick in something about Muslims?
Yes, it's called Islamophobia aka as hate or fear towards the Muslim community.
jord
Member
+2,382|7114|The North, beyond the wall.

sergeriver wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

David.P wrote:

Is'nt it because the religion of peace does'nt like their peaceful christian and animist neighbors? Or am i in a parallel universe right now in which religion is not the reason for genocide in Darfur?
Not being rude or offensive, but do you only ever post when you can stick in something about Muslims?
Yes, it's called Islamophobia aka as hate or fear towards the Muslim community.
I would of called that Racism. You young whipper-snappers and your funky Wizz-words.

Last edited by jord (2008-01-03 15:52:45)

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