| yay | 46% | 46% - 68 | ||||
| nay | 53% | 53% - 78 | ||||
| Total: 146 | ||||||
Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2008-01-05 01:53:39)
I don't totally agree tbh. Always this colonial thingy which pops up, that's an easy excuse. That's a way more difficult than that. What I always wonder is why we (western countries) think that helping them is gonna make them feel happy anyway. There are some ways of helping them which would be efficient and make them feel better about their faith to their country etc that's right, and that's what we should do. But unfortunately, stupid as we are when it comes to have a better conscience (because it's the only reason why we give them money or food, which is pretty useless unless you wanna give it to warlords or corrupted presidents there), we do only crap and actually make african countries feel that without us, there would be nothing => This is the problem... they MUST solve their problems by themself and they can do it.Spark wrote:
We (meaning Westerners meaning England, France, Spain etc. etc.) are the ones who screwed them over in the colonial period.
The least we could do is help them fix it.
Total isolationism is probably wrong but direct interventionism is more wrong. If the legacy of colonisation is anything to go by the west should keep its noses out of their affairs. We have enough of our own problems to contend with without travelling back several centuries in social and political evolution to try and sort out theirs.Turquoise wrote:
Very true, which is why total isolationism really doesn't hold up to reality. If we ever expect Africa to evolve societally in many areas, interventionism is basically inevitable.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-05 05:45:50)
So what did we do then? Someone learned to europeans everything? gave us teachers? lol man.. lol. We learned by ourself, didn't we? Problem is that people like you do think (even if you'll never admit) that africans are too stupid to learn by themselves, to solve their problems etc. OFC if we don't let us the chance to learn by themselves...Gawwad wrote:
African countries can't solve their problems on their own.
Education is what the people, and specifically women, NEED there.
There is just no way they can do it without foreign help, no money and no teachers.
Last edited by stef10 (2008-01-05 06:25:04)
Ireland suffered 800 years of colonial oppression, subjugation and exploitation. When we finally won back our country the colonial power leaving scoffed at the idea of us being able to run our own affairs. It took about 60 years of shit to get our house in order but we're now one of the leading economies in Europe. Most African nations have only been independent for less than 60 years. I don't think it'll be as easy for them to sort their shit out because of the ridiculous borders they have and the difference in culture but it will happen - it will just take time and they'll sort it out themselves.xRBLx wrote:
Thats what happend when you want independence but cant stand on you're own.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-05 06:32:20)
Last edited by Enzzenmachine (2008-01-05 06:47:03)
Oh yeah I agree no one can declare independence and suddenly be and up and country right away it takes time, money and unfortunately lives.CameronPoe wrote:
Ireland suffered 800 years of colonial oppression, subjugation and exploitation. When we finally won back our country the colonial power leaving scoffed at the idea of us being able to run our own affairs. It took about 60 years of shit to get our house in order but we're now one of the leading economies in Europe. Most African nations have only been independent for less than 60 years. I don't think it'll be as easy for them to sort their shit out because of the ridiculous borders they have and the difference in culture but it will happen - it will just take time and they'll sort it out themselves.xRBLx wrote:
Thats what happend when you want independence but cant stand on you're own.
Very good points here. +1ReTox wrote:
Add to that that any aid, food, medicine and money that is sent there (even the red cross has had problems) is almost always stolen by these warlords then you have a very serious problem creating any kind of lasting change. Africa needs a very large global military force to come in and just kick the shit out of the illegal armies, then they need to stabilize and restructure/rebuild the entire region. Turn as much of the land as is possible into agriculture. No nation is going to pony up for any part of that, regardless of how morally just it would be, they just won't do it. Besides, having third world countries allows the leading countries to look good which is just a sick form of Yin and Yang.
Look at what the UN didn't do during Rwanda, and they had troops on the ground FFS but wouldn't use them. The rest of the world doesn't give a shit about Africa... but they do like their oil.
This topic isn't about whether you support intervention in Africa. Just because you think they should sort out their issues themselves doesn't mean you can't feel bad for them. I mean, honestly, who can look at the pictures of the starving kids, and the masses of dead bodies out in the streets, and not feel bad about the situation there?Enzzenmachine wrote:
and we continue to take advantage of them because our "help" doesn't do anything but getting everything worse, so thx the vicious circle. Think what you want anyway, if you feel bad and responsible for them, that's your problem. But keep in mind that constantly having our noses in their business will solve nothing and get everything worse and worse.
Last edited by Home (2008-01-05 10:41:54)
Well, I think we can agree that some interventionism is entirely unnecessary. I think we can also agree that the colonial era never should have happened. Since it did, however, we have to work towards cleaning up the Middle East and Africa.CameronPoe wrote:
Ireland suffered 800 years of colonial oppression, subjugation and exploitation. When we finally won back our country the colonial power leaving scoffed at the idea of us being able to run our own affairs. It took about 60 years of shit to get our house in order but we're now one of the leading economies in Europe. Most African nations have only been independent for less than 60 years. I don't think it'll be as easy for them to sort their shit out because of the ridiculous borders they have and the difference in culture but it will happen - it will just take time and they'll sort it out themselves.xRBLx wrote:
Thats what happend when you want independence but cant stand on you're own.
Not fair, we tried to help the people in the early 90's only to get a thank you note delivered by AK-47 and RPG fire, no thanks.Yellowman03 wrote:
They deserve help, but helping them would have no economic or political gain for Western countries. Therfore, they're pretty screwed. btw it's crisis not crysis...i think you've been gaming too much
well spokenlowing wrote:
Not fair, we tried to help the people in the early 90's only to get a thank you note delivered by AK-47 and RPG fire, no thanks.Yellowman03 wrote:
They deserve help, but helping them would have no economic or political gain for Western countries. Therfore, they're pretty screwed. btw it's crisis not crysis...i think you've been gaming too much
Easy for you to say with a computer&internet, home, food, work, education and a car.NeXuS4909 wrote:
nope
No matter how bad my life is i dont want other people to feel sorry for me. Even if everyday could be my last.
Last edited by Missionless (2008-01-07 03:20:16)