BF2S Forums Grat news! Germany finally goes against its own laws in favor of Islam

lowing wrote:

In the US? You already answered it with your own quote, Cam.............."OFF PREMISIS INSTRUCTION"

Are you incapable of answering the following question with a simple 'Yes' or a simple 'No'?

Does the US legal system facilitate Muslim prayer during school hours?

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

In the US? You already answered it with your own quote, Cam.............."OFF PREMISIS INSTRUCTION"

Are you incapable of answering the following question with a simple 'Yes' or a simple 'No'?

Does the US legal system facilitate Muslim prayer during school hours?

YOU already answered it Cam, "OFF PREMISIS INSTRUCTION" Off premisis, means I don't give a shit if they left school to honor kill their sister in between classes.

I can't believe you can't answer the question with a yes or no. Is your hand unable to type a one word answer. Does your brain 'not compute'. It's quite a simple request.

Yes or No.

Si o No.

Seá nó Ní heá.

Ja/Nein.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-08 16:34:18)

lowing wrote:

See above 5 times, it is your point you answer it.

No lowing. I would like to read your post that confirms the fact that the legal system of your country facilitates Muslim prayer during school hours. Will your head explode if you actually type the words lowing?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-08 16:40:52)

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

See above 5 times, it is your point you answer it.

No lowing. I would like to read your post that confirms the fact that the legal system of your country facilitates Muslim prayer during school hours. Will your head explode if you actually type the words lowing?

No you tell me, I am not going to be bothered to look up shit for you. You post it and I will respond to it

I already posted the link to the relevant US government website. Do you want me to repost it? Man, this is the funniest shit I've seen in ages.

Edit: I'll play along...

http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/relig … dance.html

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-08 17:17:32)

lol. It's like watching two 4-year-olds throwing sand at each other in the sandbox...

anyway, lowing, why can't you admit that the US department of education has made it possible for students of muslim faith to be excused from class to pray ? Yeah, I know, "off-premises", but the fact remains. Would you call this appeasement ?

And why would anyone be against setting up a room for students of any faith to pray in ? Religion is important to a lot of people in the US.
Why wouldn't you allow them ( the students )  to pray in their free time, be it on school premises or not ?


btw, lowing bashing thread ? did I miss something ?

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

I saw what you quoted, and what you quoted said "OFF Premises Instruction". If that quote of yours did not suit your needs then find something in there that does. If you wanna requote something else I will respond, but I will be damned if I am gunna read all of that.

By the way, what happened to your lowing bashing thread? Wasn't it going the way you wanted?

US Law wrote:

For example, it would be lawful for schools to excuse Muslim students briefly from class to enable them to fulfill their religious obligations to pray during Ramadan.

Does the US legal system facilitate Muslim prayer during school hours? Yes or no.

RSVP

I dispensed with the other thread because I realised it would drag on for 20+ pages and probably leads to bans/permbans. I delete all threads I create when they hit page 2 anyway.

Like I said, OFF PREMISES, but off premises, means you take your non-sense elsewhere does it not? I am going by your quoted paragraph I assume that is what you were arguing with

LOL, no you dispensed with your lowing bashing thread because the first response was aimed at you. lol

B.Schuss wrote:

lol. It's like watching two 4-year-olds throwing sand at each other in the sandbox...

anyway, lowing, why can't you admit that the US department of education has made it possible for students of muslim faith to be excused from class to pray ? Yeah, I know, "off-premises", but the fact remains. Would you call this appeasement ?

And why would anyone be against setting up a room for students of any faith to pray in ? Religion is important to a lot of people in the US.
Why wouldn't you allow them ( the students )  to pray in their free time, be it on school premises or not ?


btw, lowing bashing thread ? did I miss something ?

I did admit it several times, OFF PREMISES, but off premises means NOT on premises in a specially constructed prayer room.

I do not like a freedom of religion being exercised that goes against the very nature of that freedom or soiety.

An analogy would be, I do not like flag burning. Yeah, everything in our constitution says you are free to do so, but it disrespects the very freedom that people have fought and died for.

I admitted long ago that my opinion smacks of hypocrisy, still it is my opinion that this religion is violent, intolerant, needy and an attention whore, and does not mesh with western values and ideology. Several dismissed articles prove that.

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Like I said, OFF PREMISES, but off premises, means you take your non-sense elsewhere does it not? I am going by your quoted paragraph I assume that is what you were arguing with

LOL, no you dispensed with your lowing bashing thread because the first response was aimed at you. lol

The first response was a joke by an Irish friend of mine FatherTed. /fail

OK so I asked you for a yes/no answer again having, as YOU REQUESTED, requoting again and you failed to answer the question with a simple yes or a no.

The simple fact of the matter is that the US makes special provisions for the observence of religious practice. I should know - I saw the prayer room at JFK airport when I was there a couple of weeks ago....

Get the fuck off campus to pray, is hardly making special arrangments for prayer Cam

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news … rt/247018/

You are so delusional on this matter it is damaging your credibility in a serious way.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-09 04:14:31)

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

The first response was a joke by an Irish friend of mine FatherTed. /fail

OK so I asked you for a yes/no answer again having, as YOU REQUESTED, requoting again and you failed to answer the question with a simple yes or a no.

The simple fact of the matter is that the US makes special provisions for the observence of religious practice. I should know - I saw the prayer room at JFK airport when I was there a couple of weeks ago....

Get the fuck off campus to pray, is hardly making special arrangments for prayer Cam

Believe it or not, I do not object ot prayer rooms at international "gateway" airports such as JFK. It is a leaping off point to the world, and assumed that people are coming and going. On campus pretty much means you are perminant

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 … ools_N.htm

Perhaps you're so busy looking at Europe that you are neglecting your own backyward...

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-09 04:16:58)

lowing wrote:

Yeah, this is appeasement and greatly strengthens my objection and my point.
I am not only concerning myself with Europe Cam, I do not like it here either, as you know, it is simply Europe happened to be the OP.

Well I find the level of vehemence in your objection to the very American value of harmless freedom of religion rather odd to say the least. I don't agree with designated prayer rooms as that entails some of my tax money being wasted on mindless hocus pocus but allowing people to use a vacant room is no skin off either of our noses. The German case highlighted the fact that no provision had previously existed for this freedom of religious expression and that an empty room, according to our German friend Mr. Schuss, be used to facilitate such a thing rather than a designated prayer room, which seems to differ from the American examples where actual designated prayer rooms have been installed.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-04-09 05:06:29)

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yeah, this is appeasement and greatly strengthens my objection and my point.
I am not only concerning myself with Europe Cam, I do not like it here either, as you know, it is simply Europe happened to be the OP.

Well I find the level of vehemence in your objection to the very American value of harmless freedom of religion rather odd to say the least. I don't agree with designated prayer rooms as that entails some of my tax money being wasted on mindless hocus pocus but allowing people to use a vacant room is no skin off either of our noses. The German case highlighted the fact that no provision had previously existed for this freedom of religious expression and that an empty room be used to facilitate such a thing rather than a designated prayer room, which seems to differ from the American examples where actual designated prayer rooms have been installed.

to me, there is a difference between promoting a religion, and simply allowing it to be practised. The former would constitute a violation of separation of church and state, while the latter simply acknowledges freedom of religion. At least that's how the german courts saw it in this particular case. This doesn't mean, of course, that a higher court could not rule out the practicing of any religion on school property totally.
Whatever the decision the higher court makes will be, I am pretty sure this will go before the german supreme court in the end.

As Cam has said, the whole issue is kinda new to us here in germany, mainly because no muslim student previously has ever asked to be allowed to pray in school. Young muslims here in germany were so secular ( or chose to pray at other times ) that it just wasn't an issue. At least that's the impression that I have.

Again, I am quite curious to see how this will play out.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having prayer rooms in schools, as long as they're open to everyone, and do not chose a specific religion over another. I mean, we have chapels in hospitals, and airports, why not in schools and universities ? Religion means a lot to many people, why not acknowledge that ?
Of course, no school should be forced to have a prayer room, if funding won't allow it, or if there are no sufficient facilities available.
But I am sure that in those cases, the parents of these religious students will be more than happy to help fund such a prayer room....

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

lol. It's like watching two 4-year-olds throwing sand at each other in the sandbox...

anyway, lowing, why can't you admit that the US department of education has made it possible for students of muslim faith to be excused from class to pray ? Yeah, I know, "off-premises", but the fact remains. Would you call this appeasement ?

And why would anyone be against setting up a room for students of any faith to pray in ? Religion is important to a lot of people in the US.
Why wouldn't you allow them ( the students )  to pray in their free time, be it on school premises or not ?


btw, lowing bashing thread ? did I miss something ?

I did admit it several times, OFF PREMISES, but off premises means NOT on premises in a specially constructed prayer room.

I do not like a freedom of religion being exercised that goes against the very nature of that freedom or soiety.

An analogy would be, I do not like flag burning. Yeah, everything in our constitution says you are free to do so, but it disrespects the very freedom that people have fought and died for.

I admitted long ago that my opinion smacks of hypocrisy, still it is my opinion that this religion is violent, intolerant, needy and an attention whore, and does not mesh with western values and ideology. Several dismissed articles prove that.

I bet my ass a great number of peaceful american muslims would object to that statement. What would you tell them ? That they'd better get a new religion ?

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of american muslims have integrated into the american society, with some success. the same is true for european muslims. What are you going to tell those people ? That their american or EU citizenships are useless, because they are muslims ?
That the constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but not theirs ? As far as I know, islam is a officially reckognized religion in the US, isn't it ?
Regardless of how islamic radicals in other countries define their religion, how can you ignore your fellow americans ? Are they not your brothers and sisters ? Don't they deserve the same protection that the constitution provides, even if they happen to be muslims ?

I do not consider simply immigrating to a city and setting up distinct Islamic communities as assimilating or integrating. These areas are made up of immigrants for most part that will not learnn the language or even attempt to become citizens. Hardly my diffintion of assimilation or integration, it is merely taking over.