Pages: 1 2

 

2008-01-10 09:31:20
PureFodder
Member
+225|6720
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 181658.stm

The last horse finally crosses the finishing line. Why the sudden change around after decades of almost single handedly blocking this? Will this turn out to be another big publicity, but totally bullshit peace deal that will be utterly unacceptable to anyone that isn't Israel?

Last edited by PureFodder (2008-01-10 09:35:10)

2008-01-10 09:47:21
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7036|132 and Bush

Skeptical optimism.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-01-10 10:01:29
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7192|Argentina
Because Bush is seeking legacy.
2008-01-10 10:42:15
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7125|Tampa Bay Florida

Kmarion wrote:

Skeptical optimism.
Same

sergeriver wrote:

Because Bush is seeking legacy.
If things are accomplished, honestly, who really cares?
2008-01-10 10:42:45
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6990

PureFodder wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 181658.stm

The last horse finally crosses the finishing line. Why the sudden change around after decades of almost single handedly blocking this? Will this turn out to be another big publicity, but totally bullshit peace deal that will be utterly unacceptable to anyone that isn't Israel?
lol
2008-01-10 10:47:22
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6977|Texas - Bigger than France
Cripes, isn't this what you guys wanted?  The US to begin to stop mothering Israel?
2008-01-10 10:48:02
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6990

Pug wrote:

Cripes, isn't this what you guys wanted?  The US to begin to stop mothering Israel?
Nobody pays a blind bit of attention to anything that babbling idiot says anymore.
2008-01-10 10:49:44
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6977|Texas - Bigger than France
Except when he says something stupid apparently....
2008-01-10 11:39:42
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7192|Argentina

Pug wrote:

Cripes, isn't this what you guys wanted?  The US to begin to stop mothering Israel?
If he gets a deal there, fine by me.  But he seeks legacy coz he knows he was a shitty prez and this is his last shot.
2008-01-10 11:57:13
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6990
He hasn't said anything new here.

It was HIS administration that broke from decades of US policy stating Israel must vacate ALL Palestinian territory, watering it down significantly and tacitly endorsing the annexation of parts of the West Bank.

Today he is still saying the EXACT SAME thing: parts of the West Bank illegally held by Israel will remain as part of Israel.

Tell me what on earth is new or good here?
2008-01-10 12:21:12
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6977|Texas - Bigger than France
I think the first step is to tell people your patience is thin, before you decide to tell people to go ahead and kill themselves.

One interpretation (prolly not right one o' course)
2008-01-10 12:26:54
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6926|Northern California

sergeriver wrote:

Because Bush is seeking legacy.
No more, no less than this.  He even gave it a time to happen...by "year's end."  Now the normal yokel knows that when Bush does this it's for political favor only...period...end of discussion.  He's there now doing his photo ops..because we ALL know perfectly that he's not there to actually do ANYTHING resembling negotiating or anything related towards the process.  He simply can't do it..physically and mentally, he's not done such a thing his entire two terms of occupancy in the white house, he certainly can't do it now.

For me, I'm just sitting here refreshing google news constantly to see if "anything good happens" regarding his logistical position and his avowed enemies who wish for his destruction.  I swear, I will take a week off to celebrate, jumping and dancing naked in the streets if they effected a regime change for us!  lol   with any luck he'll take a little boat ride out to his carrier groups in the straight of hormuz!!!  Talk about provocation!


After rereading, I just realized that the only beneficial (to him) element to doing this is not peace, to create a state, honor palestinians...it's to appease the Saudis..who own him and 11% of our country and Bush's retirement plans.  Something along those lines.  BUt it's not like war will stop...or the supply of Israelis their weapons.  I wouldn't doubt if we start arming Palestine  (ie., iraq, iran, iraq...) so both people can upgrade their warring.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-01-10 12:31:39)

2008-01-10 12:39:46
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6985|CH/BR - in UK

IRONCHEF wrote:

I swear, I will take a week off to celebrate, jumping and dancing naked in the streets if they effected a regime change for us!
I swear to god I'll come streaking with you, and actually run to the whitehouse... and kiss the president.

I doubt anything will happen because the US/Bush has lost his influence over Israel. They have become far too powerful, and have been coddled for far too long for them to give a rats ass about anyone elses opinion. Israel is like an adopted child, that has been spoiled all of it's life, and has been bullying it's little brother since it came into the family.

-konfusion
2008-01-10 12:44:11
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6926|Northern California
I was referring to bush getting it, not olhmert or abbas (or whoever runs those two feuding groups).  if he got ...you know, I'd celebrate like it was 1999!!
2008-01-10 13:05:01
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6995

IRONCHEF wrote:

I was referring to bush getting it, not olhmert or abbas (or whoever runs those two feuding groups).  if he got ...you know, I'd celebrate like it was 1999!!
If this is the view of the generation next in charge....we're all fucked now. The only thing that can save us is the second coming of Christ!
2008-01-10 13:14:34
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7192|Argentina

konfusion wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

I swear, I will take a week off to celebrate, jumping and dancing naked in the streets if they effected a regime change for us!
I swear to god I'll come streaking with you, and actually run to the whitehouse... and kiss the president.

I doubt anything will happen because the US/Bush has lost his influence over Israel. They have become far too powerful, and have been coddled for far too long for them to give a rats ass about anyone elses opinion. Israel is like an adopted child, that has been spoiled all of it's life, and has been bullying it's little brother since it came into the family.

-konfusion
Oh, this will happen, this guy needs legacy, and this can be accomplished, even by him.
2008-01-10 13:22:33
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7067|949

konfusion wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

I swear, I will take a week off to celebrate, jumping and dancing naked in the streets if they effected a regime change for us!
I swear to god I'll come streaking with you, and actually run to the whitehouse... and kiss the president.

I doubt anything will happen because the US/Bush has lost his influence over Israel. They have become far too powerful, and have been coddled for far too long for them to give a rats ass about anyone elses opinion. Israel is like an adopted child, that has been spoiled all of it's life, and has been bullying it's little brother since it came into the family.

-konfusion
The U.S. (and by extension the U.S. government) are THE biggest influence over Israel in the world - they (Israel) most likely would cease to exist without direct U.S. military and financial support.  We essentially are their lifeline, whether it is justified or not.  They care about U.S. policy change, no doubt about it.

The U.S. is urging the end to Israeli settlements in occupied territories, yet still fails to realistically reprimand Israel for current settlement actions.  Bush's words regarding that - "On the Israeli side, that includes ending settlement expansion and removing unauthorised outposts." will hold as much value as his words regarding Palestinian action - "On the Palestinian side, that includes confronting terrorists and dismantling terrorist infrastructure," which is little to none.

One aspect of the Bush Administration's current rhetoric that I find interesting (and appealing) is the idea of compensation for Palestinian refugees, which is a great idea and from what I see a very real step toward peace in the region.
2008-01-10 13:26:28
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6995
Why doesn't Israel build Palestinian settlements?
2008-01-10 13:32:00
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7067|949

rawls2 wrote:

Why doesn't Israel build Palestinian settlements?
They have much more fun bulldozing them.  Was that a trick question?
2008-01-10 13:35:31
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6995

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Why doesn't Israel build Palestinian settlements?
They have much more fun bulldozing them.  Was that a trick question?
No no seriously. I think if the world pitches in with funds, which they already do, theres no reason why pali settlements could not be built. Would that help? I think so. Imagine the jobs it would create for the Pali's themselves. It would get them working and provide a home.
2008-01-10 13:43:39
NantanCochise
Member
+55|6413|Portugal/United States
Like some of you have said, there is nothing new here. Very true and yes this obviously has something to do with Bush and his legacy of peace in the Middle East. But while the US and many others have for decades asked Isreal to leave the West Bank, it is not up to them. Only time will tell what may come from this renewed pressure but not only am I sceptical but its definately a lot more complicated than hoping Isreal will conform to ouside demands. Its never worked before.
2008-01-10 13:50:50
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7067|949

rawls2 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Why doesn't Israel build Palestinian settlements?
They have much more fun bulldozing them.  Was that a trick question?
No no seriously. I think if the world pitches in with funds, which they already do, theres no reason why pali settlements could not be built. Would that help? I think so. Imagine the jobs it would create for the Pali's themselves. It would get them working and provide a home.
The problem is that anytime violence breaks out in one of the occupied territories, the Israeli defense limits travel inside and outside of those territories - effectively limiting the economy of the country.  Not to mention the fact that they tax goods exported out of the territories and import a large amount of goods into the country - which not only makes the occupied regions reliant on the Israeli economy, but also retards natural growth of Palestinian economy.  The foreign aid package the U.S. pledged not to long ago contained money to help create and sustain a real Palestinian economy - which is a good thing.

It seems (through Israeli policy decision and action) that the Israeli government is in no real hurry to help Palestinians become self-sufficient.  Perhaps with the increased political pressure the United States is putting on Israel they will change the policies they have that really suffocate any attempt at a functioning Palestinian society.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-01-10 14:40:20)

2008-01-10 14:09:47
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6995

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

They have much more fun bulldozing them.  Was that a trick question?
No no seriously. I think if the world pitches in with funds, which they already do, theres no reason why pali settlements could not be built. Would that help? I think so. Imagine the jobs it would create for the Pali's themselves. It would get them working and provide a home.
The problem is that anytime violence breaks out in one of the occupied territories, the Israeli defense limits travel inside and outside of those territories - effectively limiting the economy of the country.  Not to mention the fact that they tax goods exported out of the territories and import a large amount of goods into the country - which not only makes the occupied regions reliant on the Israeli economy, but also retards natural growth of Palestinian economy.  The foreign aid package the U.S. pledged not to long ago contained money to help create and sustain a real Palestinian economy - which is a good thing.

It seems (through Israeli policy decision and action) that the Israeli government is in no real hurry to help Palestinians create a self-sufficient.  Perhaps with the increased political pressure the United States is putting on Israel they will change the policies they have that really suffocate any attempt at a functioning Palestinian society.
Would an Israeli governemnt, let alone the people, be able to justify continued military actions against the Palestinians if the violence ends and fighters become builders. My vision would be that the Palestinians, thru action, show Israel and the world they are serious about co-existing. A change of heart, if you will, towards the Pali's would ensue and the citizens of Israel would force thier government to help the Pali's continue the path they have started for themselves. The end result would be an Israeli army patrolling said settlements to keep out foriegn instigaters and eventually would comprise of both Israelis and Palestinians serving together for the protection of both thier homelands.

Last edited by rawls2 (2008-01-10 14:10:36)

2008-01-10 14:14:05
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6926|Northern California

rawls2 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Why doesn't Israel build Palestinian settlements?
They have much more fun bulldozing them.  Was that a trick question?
No no seriously. I think if the world pitches in with funds, which they already do, theres no reason why pali settlements could not be built. Would that help? I think so. Imagine the jobs it would create for the Pali's themselves. It would get them working and provide a home.
Send FEMA trailers to them as a nice gesture saying "sorry we vicariously oppressed you since 1947.  we never used these as they were not good enough for our NOLA subhumans, but surely you can make do with them."  Maybe send them some boat loads of rocks since the territory's rocks have all been displaced after decades of rock throwing.
2008-01-10 15:09:03
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7067|949

rawls2 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

The problem is that anytime violence breaks out in one of the occupied territories, the Israeli defense limits travel inside and outside of those territories - effectively limiting the economy of the country.  Not to mention the fact that they tax goods exported out of the territories and import a large amount of goods into the country - which not only makes the occupied regions reliant on the Israeli economy, but also retards natural growth of Palestinian economy.  The foreign aid package the U.S. pledged not to long ago contained money to help create and sustain a real Palestinian economy - which is a good thing.

It seems (through Israeli policy decision and action) that the Israeli government is in no real hurry to help Palestinians create a self-sufficient.  Perhaps with the increased political pressure the United States is putting on Israel they will change the policies they have that really suffocate any attempt at a functioning Palestinian society.
Would an Israeli governemnt, let alone the people, be able to justify continued military actions against the Palestinians if the violence ends and fighters become builders. My vision would be that the Palestinians, thru action, show Israel and the world they are serious about co-existing. A change of heart, if you will, towards the Pali's would ensue and the citizens of Israel would force thier government to help the Pali's continue the path they have started for themselves. The end result would be an Israeli army patrolling said settlements to keep out foriegn instigaters and eventually would comprise of both Israelis and Palestinians serving together for the protection of both thier homelands.
The violence is continuous by both factions - Israel and Palestine.  Without outside pressure, I do not see any real decrease in violence - and even with outside pressure (like the international community), I still believe there will be pockets of extremism against any Israeli state.  The question (in my opinion) is, will Israel punish the Palestinian community at large for the actions of a few?

I don't think Palestinians want any type of occupation, even if Israeli Defense was there only to protect Palestinian life.

 

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