interesting read... pros and cons to China and India development...
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co … 948401.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co … 948401.htm
Love is the answer
We really need a world war to stimulate our economy
and a reshaping of the global economy... EU and Japan seem to be affected the most adversely?
time will tell
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co … 948401.htm
time will tell
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co … 948401.htm
Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2008-01-14 21:25:04)
Love is the answer
I'll toast to thatstryyker wrote:
We really need a world war to stimulate our economy
Maybe just between china and russia.jsnipy wrote:
I'll toast to thatstryyker wrote:
We really need a world war to stimulate our economy
Well the thing is that if he has a company he may be more affected than you... I don't know whats your age and social position but a situation can be seen differently for people to people. Personnaly i think that i was, and now its just more obvious, that China was going to get more important and devellop itself. How do you want a country with so many people to stay in farm land and basic labour shop *( i dont know how to say this in english, factory..) they are just starting a revolution and they are already a major player in wolrd economy but now they take more power. We can't stop them but we can use they'r devellopment or try to find way to keep our economy up. Has it was said we've been in prosperity for a while now... no more Urss, US ''saved'' europe in WWII and they've helped to re-consrtuct everything... I dont want to get too far on that subject as im not a pro but i think that this prosperity can't last forever...[TUF]Catbox wrote:
ok... i choose not to give up that easy... I didn't say that there aren't challenges ahead... just that i am optimistic that we will make it through this... not into the whole defeatist attitude... works for you i guess,phrozen?
As for the war... well the 1929 krash leaded to what... I hope the story wont be the same,but at least Usa isn't going to be lead by that guy... One good thing but on China side its kind of bad..
-Seb
Last edited by 0seb--morin0 (2008-01-14 21:30:53)
Nah, we need total world ... Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.David.P wrote:
Maybe just between china and russia.jsnipy wrote:
I'll toast to thatstryyker wrote:
We really need a world war to stimulate our economy
Your business is tied very closely to real estate any though.ATG wrote:
My company December receipts 2006 = $78,731.00
My company December receipts 2007 = $36,587.00
It feels like the end of the world man.
Last edited by jsnipy (2008-01-14 21:33:49)
We'll have a lot of pretty toilet paper that doesn't absorb water well.ATG wrote:
And what happens when we default on billions/trillions in loan payments to China?
There will be light at the end of the tunnel, but it won't be easy. Most of the great fortunes were made during the great depression. In a depression, real assets don't change value, they just change hands. I see an opportunity, but I also see some very hard times for everyone and it sickens me.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
ok... i choose not to give up that easy... I didn't say that there aren't challenges ahead... just that i am optimistic that we will make it through this... not into the whole defeatist attitude... works for you i guess,phrozen?
Last edited by Phrozenbot (2008-01-14 21:38:19)
Isn't that what Bush has been aiming at during his term in office?jsnipy wrote:
Nah, we need total world ... Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.David.P wrote:
Maybe just between china and russia.jsnipy wrote:
I'll toast to that
Home values actually increased in my area last month. Home inventory is down also (good news).
Xbone Stormsurgezz
It becomes extremely expensive for us to borrow money and we become a second-rate country for a while.ATG wrote:
And what happens when we default on billions/trillions in loan payments to China?
That worked back when we were the only ones with the nukes.stryyker wrote:
We really need a world war to stimulate our economy
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
The sky is falling!
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
This is why the next election will be so very important for the future of the US, vote Democrats to turn the tide or just vote Republican if you think this situation will mend itself and disapear if you stop thinking about it ...
And before you flame me for flaming your political thoughts think about the last time the Democrats took over the oval office from a Republican President that had been on a spending spree in the middle east ...
I feel a little sad thinking about how these economic problems most likely could have been avoided with a Democrat in office the past 7 years.
And don't forget or even believe that this is solely a local problem in the USA, when they fall if they do it will have effects globally ...
And before you flame me for flaming your political thoughts think about the last time the Democrats took over the oval office from a Republican President that had been on a spending spree in the middle east ...
I feel a little sad thinking about how these economic problems most likely could have been avoided with a Democrat in office the past 7 years.
And don't forget or even believe that this is solely a local problem in the USA, when they fall if they do it will have effects globally ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
The democrats will make it worse. Universal health care? It's out of the question. Have you seen how much our entitlements will cost us? 60 trillion. We won't be able to continue paying for social security, Medicare, and veteran benefits just to name a few. A lot of that just has to go.Varegg wrote:
This is why the next election will be so very important for the future of the US, vote Democrats to turn the tide or just vote Republican if you think this situation will mend itself and disapear if you stop thinking about it ...
And before you flame me for flaming your political thoughts think about the last time the Democrats took over the oval office from a Republican President that had been on a spending spree in the middle east ...
I feel a little sad thinking about how these economic problems most likely could have been avoided with a Democrat in office the past 7 years.
And don't forget or even believe that this is solely a local problem in the USA, when they fall if they do it will have effects globally ...
And I don't disagree with you on the fact the Bush administration has got us into a lot of debt because of the war, but you can't blame him or the republicans entirely. Our government has grown over the years, and so has our spending. There is hardly any fiscal conservatives in office anymore. It is spend spend spend, like nothing ever bad happens when you spend more than your means.
get fucked! i have a party to get smashed on, on the 9th so cant it wait??[TUF]Catbox wrote:
the world will end on Feb 7th
I meant feb 10th...lol... party on...Nappy wrote:
get fucked! i have a party to get smashed on, on the 9th so cant it wait??[TUF]Catbox wrote:
the world will end on Feb 7th
Love is the answer
So put the economy of the last 3 republican governments up against the last 3 democratic governments and see what the result is, if you don't bother i can tell you right now.Phrozenbot wrote:
The democrats will make it worse. Universal health care? It's out of the question. Have you seen how much our entitlements will cost us? 60 trillion. We won't be able to continue paying for social security, Medicare, and veteran benefits just to name a few. A lot of that just has to go.Varegg wrote:
This is why the next election will be so very important for the future of the US, vote Democrats to turn the tide or just vote Republican if you think this situation will mend itself and disapear if you stop thinking about it ...
And before you flame me for flaming your political thoughts think about the last time the Democrats took over the oval office from a Republican President that had been on a spending spree in the middle east ...
I feel a little sad thinking about how these economic problems most likely could have been avoided with a Democrat in office the past 7 years.
And don't forget or even believe that this is solely a local problem in the USA, when they fall if they do it will have effects globally ...
And I don't disagree with you on the fact the Bush administration has got us into a lot of debt because of the war, but you can't blame him or the republicans entirely. Our government has grown over the years, and so has our spending. There is hardly any fiscal conservatives in office anymore. It is spend spend spend, like nothing ever bad happens when you spend more than your means.
Republicans equals overspending - Democrats equals a healthier economy. <------ Prove me wrong on that if you can.
Just the idea you have on democrats making it worse is flawd beyond reason .... that you even consider voting for the same guys that got you into this mess is scary ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Conservative = smaller government, less taxes, less spending, more power to the states etc, non-intervention. Liberal = bigger government, more taxes, more spending, less power to the states. Now it is true that in the past decade or so it seems Republicans have abandoned the idea of conservative spending, but let me remind you it was the democrats for the most part who were for social security, medicare, welfare, and other social programs. I already mentioned that social security and medicare were part of our entitlements that will cost us $60 trillion dollars if we plan on promising those services at the cost of digging ourselves in a pit that will bury us. I don't understand how you can't see that.Varegg wrote:
So put the economy of the last 3 republican governments up against the last 3 democratic governments and see what the result is, if you don't bother i can tell you right now.Phrozenbot wrote:
The democrats will make it worse. Universal health care? It's out of the question. Have you seen how much our entitlements will cost us? 60 trillion. We won't be able to continue paying for social security, Medicare, and veteran benefits just to name a few. A lot of that just has to go.Varegg wrote:
This is why the next election will be so very important for the future of the US, vote Democrats to turn the tide or just vote Republican if you think this situation will mend itself and disapear if you stop thinking about it ...
And before you flame me for flaming your political thoughts think about the last time the Democrats took over the oval office from a Republican President that had been on a spending spree in the middle east ...
I feel a little sad thinking about how these economic problems most likely could have been avoided with a Democrat in office the past 7 years.
And don't forget or even believe that this is solely a local problem in the USA, when they fall if they do it will have effects globally ...
And I don't disagree with you on the fact the Bush administration has got us into a lot of debt because of the war, but you can't blame him or the republicans entirely. Our government has grown over the years, and so has our spending. There is hardly any fiscal conservatives in office anymore. It is spend spend spend, like nothing ever bad happens when you spend more than your means.
Republicans equals overspending - Democrats equals a healthier economy. <------ Prove me wrong on that if you can.
Just the idea you have on democrats making it worse is flawd beyond reason .... that you even consider voting for the same guys that got you into this mess is scary ...
I'm not voting for any democrats or any of the neo-cons running for the Republican nomination. Why? I already explained that we can't afford UHC, let alone other social programs we have, and the neo-cons are a bunch of chicken hawks who want to stay in Iraq and probably would show the same aggression towards Iran as Bush does. Yes, another Bush, and I hate him. But I am voting for Ron Paul who holds true conservative values. Principles over partisanship buddy. I'm not loyal to the republican party, but to my values.
And what is this about the last 3 democrats though? There was the dot com boom during Bill's administration, but you had the tech bubble and unemployment was higher than what was being reported. We weren't doing too great under Carter's administration either if I recall. But you can't necessarily attribute the economy to the president, however war leads to inflation and it is going to be a big problem in 08, so Bush is definitely responsible for his part, but so is the fed and I'm for abolishing the fed.
You know, maybe socialized health cares works for the most part in the EU, but does the EU spend nearly as much as we do on defense also? No. We overspend, simple as that.
Spending money on healthcare services saves you money - easy as that .... and the overspending in the defence sector we sure do agree on
I think you misunderstand something about the economy and when the government had a healthy policy on the matter with later growth in mind and when the population in general had a good economy, there is a huge difference between the two ... when the first is in place the second comes as a result ...
I think you misunderstand something about the economy and when the government had a healthy policy on the matter with later growth in mind and when the population in general had a good economy, there is a huge difference between the two ... when the first is in place the second comes as a result ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Im glad I am moving back home to Sweden in three weeks, I am in NY now. I really hope that you guys will make i through, I think you will. Although we will all suffer a hard blow if the US falls.
Overspending is not a typical US problem, a lot of EU countries (e.g. Belgium) do the same.Phrozenbot wrote:
You know, maybe socialized health cares works for the most part in the EU, but does the EU spend nearly as much as we do on defense also? No. We overspend, simple as that.
The difference is that most EU countries spend it to the benefit of the people, while the US spends it on their military, especially the war in Iraq, to maintain their political and economical influence in most parts of the world.
Not sure how much you know about universal healthcare costs, but moving to universal healthcare should roughly halve the total costs of it, based on the fact that America's current healthcare costs about twice that of the next most expensive coutry's PER PERSON.Phrozenbot wrote:
Conservative = smaller government, less taxes, less spending, more power to the states etc, non-intervention. Liberal = bigger government, more taxes, more spending, less power to the states. Now it is true that in the past decade or so it seems Republicans have abandoned the idea of conservative spending, but let me remind you it was the democrats for the most part who were for social security, medicare, welfare, and other social programs. I already mentioned that social security and medicare were part of our entitlements that will cost us $60 trillion dollars if we plan on promising those services at the cost of digging ourselves in a pit that will bury us. I don't understand how you can't see that.Varegg wrote:
So put the economy of the last 3 republican governments up against the last 3 democratic governments and see what the result is, if you don't bother i can tell you right now.Phrozenbot wrote:
The democrats will make it worse. Universal health care? It's out of the question. Have you seen how much our entitlements will cost us? 60 trillion. We won't be able to continue paying for social security, Medicare, and veteran benefits just to name a few. A lot of that just has to go.
And I don't disagree with you on the fact the Bush administration has got us into a lot of debt because of the war, but you can't blame him or the republicans entirely. Our government has grown over the years, and so has our spending. There is hardly any fiscal conservatives in office anymore. It is spend spend spend, like nothing ever bad happens when you spend more than your means.
Republicans equals overspending - Democrats equals a healthier economy. <------ Prove me wrong on that if you can.
Just the idea you have on democrats making it worse is flawd beyond reason .... that you even consider voting for the same guys that got you into this mess is scary ...
I'm not voting for any democrats or any of the neo-cons running for the Republican nomination. Why? I already explained that we can't afford UHC, let alone other social programs we have, and the neo-cons are a bunch of chicken hawks who want to stay in Iraq and probably would show the same aggression towards Iran as Bush does. Yes, another Bush, and I hate him. But I am voting for Ron Paul who holds true conservative values. Principles over partisanship buddy. I'm not loyal to the republican party, but to my values.
And what is this about the last 3 democrats though? There was the dot com boom during Bill's administration, but you had the tech bubble and unemployment was higher than what was being reported. We weren't doing too great under Carter's administration either if I recall. But you can't necessarily attribute the economy to the president, however war leads to inflation and it is going to be a big problem in 08, so Bush is definitely responsible for his part, but so is the fed and I'm for abolishing the fed.
You know, maybe socialized health cares works for the most part in the EU, but does the EU spend nearly as much as we do on defense also? No. We overspend, simple as that.
For example the per person costs of administration of America's healthcare system is about 70% of the UK's total healthcare costs PER PERSON.
If you don't like the idea of universal healthcare, think it leads to longer waiting times, less choice etc. is a different discussion, but keep in mind that it's way cheaper than a private sector system.
I'd be up for UHC if illegal aliens were shown the door at the border.Varegg wrote:
Spending money on healthcare services saves you money - easy as that .... and the overspending in the defence sector we sure do agree on
I think you misunderstand something about the economy and when the government had a healthy policy on the matter with later growth in mind and when the population in general had a good economy, there is a huge difference between the two ... when the first is in place the second comes as a result ...
In the news today that the feds are talking about raising the gas tax $0.40 per gallon. California state law ties state tax to the same amount as fed tax, so that would be a $0.80 per gallon hike.
So, one point of view would be that the sooner is a broken the faster we can start to fix it. So what the fuck, destroy our economy, be done with it, so we can start over again. This slow bleed is stressing me out.
How's it gonna look next year when tens of thousands of businesses, just like mine, who are suffering a 50% drop in gross revenues submit their corporate taxes?
You think California is broke now? The fact is, when reality sets in our state will be bankrupt.
And it will get worse when tens of thousands of people, just like me who run small businesses declare themselves off the radar and do business for cash only. I'm really close to going there now.
In times past one would simply follow the boom, relocate to a different part of the country, but that is times past. There is no place to go that is not reeling from the onslaught of illegal mexican immigrants operating off the radar. Sucking up tax paayer dollars, sending a large part of their earnings back to mexico.
We are fucked.
We are $56 trillion dollars in debt. We can't afford UHC. The feds need to reel in their spending and we need to make some hard choices about what other social programs may need to be reduced or eliminated all together.