Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

https://i6.tinypic.com/6yd9f1j.gif
"My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. I'm a co-sponsor of the bipartisan Resolution that's presently under consideration in the Senate. Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave threat to America and our allies. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons today, that he's used them in the past, and that he's doing everything he can to build more. Every day he gets closer to his long-term goal of nuclear capability.

Democracy will not spring up by itself overnight in a multi-ethnic, complicated society that's suffered under one repressive regime after another for generations. The Iraqi people deserve and need our help to rebuild their lives and to create a prosperous, thriving, open society. All Iraqis, including Sunnis, Shia and Kurds, deserve to be represented. This is not just a moral imperative. It's a security imperative. It is in America's national interest to help build an Iraq at peace with itself and its neighbors, because a democratic, tolerant and accountable Iraq will be a peaceful regional partner, and such an Iraq could serve as a model for the entire Arab world."

Senator John Edwards (Democrat, North Carolina)
Speech at the Center for Strategic and International Studies
October 7, 2002

John Edwards is waiting in eager anticipation for your generous contribution.
https://i9.tinypic.com/6s89kde.gif
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FloppY_
­
+1,010|6721|Denmark aka Automotive Hell
I am so tired that i read the topic as:
The time has come to eliminate the thread posted by Saddam Hussein'
­ Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
King_County_Downy
shitfaced
+2,791|7032|Seattle

https://xs123.xs.to/xs123/08032/robertsonsatan993.jpg
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
FloppY_
­
+1,010|6721|Denmark aka Automotive Hell
I have my fingers crossed for Obama,, (I am no American)
­ Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6953|Montucky

FloppY_ wrote:

I am so tired that i read the topic as:
The time has come to eliminate the thread posted by Saddam Hussein'
I thought the same goddamn thing.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

FloppY_ wrote:

I have my fingers crossed for Obama,, (I am no American)
Edwards is a jackass and he is taking Obama votes.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|7110|Belgium
When times are tough, it takes a brave man (or woman) to stand up for his/her beliefs and to confront the most obvious.

In 2002, mainstream politics was about going to war in Iraq and apparently only a few were brave enough to question the underlying motives.

"The United States of America Has Gone Mad" 
by John le Carré (15 january 2003)
(http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0115-01.htm)

America has entered one of its periods of historical madness, but this is the worst I can remember: worse than McCarthyism, worse than the Bay of Pigs and in the long term potentially more disastrous than the Vietnam War.

The reaction to 9/11 is beyond anything Osama bin Laden could have hoped for in his nastiest dreams. As in McCarthy times, the freedoms that have made America the envy of the world are being systematically eroded. The combination of compliant US media and vested corporate interests is once more ensuring that a debate that should be ringing out in every town square is confined to the loftier columns of the East Coast press.

The imminent war was planned years before bin Laden struck, but it was he who made it possible. Without bin Laden, the Bush junta would still be trying to explain such tricky matters as how it came to be elected in the first place; Enron; its shameless favouring of the already-too-rich; its reckless disregard for the world’s poor, the ecology and a raft of unilaterally abrogated international treaties. They might also have to be telling us why they support Israel in its continuing disregard for UN resolutions.

But bin Laden conveniently swept all that under the carpet. The Bushies are riding high. Now 88 per cent of Americans want the war, we are told. The US defence budget has been raised by another $60 billion to around $360 billion. A splendid new generation of nuclear weapons is in the pipeline, so we can all breathe easy. Quite what war 88 per cent of Americans think they are supporting is a lot less clear. A war for how long, please? At what cost in American lives? At what cost to the American taxpayer’s pocket? At what cost — because most of those 88 per cent are thoroughly decent and humane people — in Iraqi lives?

How Bush and his junta succeeded in deflecting America’s anger from bin Laden to Saddam Hussein is one of the great public relations conjuring tricks of history. But they swung it. A recent poll tells us that one in two Americans now believe Saddam was responsible for the attack on the World Trade Centre. But the American public is not merely being misled. It is being browbeaten and kept in a state of ignorance and fear. The carefully orchestrated neurosis should carry Bush and his fellow conspirators nicely into the next election.

Those who are not with Mr Bush are against him. Worse, they are with the enemy. Which is odd, because I’m dead against Bush, but I would love to see Saddam’s downfall — just not on Bush’s terms and not by his methods. And not under the banner of such outrageous hypocrisy.

The religious cant that will send American troops into battle is perhaps the most sickening aspect of this surreal war-to-be. Bush has an arm-lock on God. And God has very particular political opinions. God appointed America to save the world in any way that suits America. God appointed Israel to be the nexus of America’s Middle Eastern policy, and anyone who wants to mess with that idea is a) anti-Semitic, b) anti-American, c) with the enemy, and d) a terrorist.

God also has pretty scary connections. In America, where all men are equal in His sight, if not in one another’s, the Bush family numbers one President, one ex-President, one ex-head of the CIA, the Governor of Florida and the ex-Governor of Texas.

Care for a few pointers? George W. Bush, 1978-84: senior executive, Arbusto Energy/Bush Exploration, an oil company; 1986-90: senior executive of the Harken oil company. Dick Cheney, 1995-2000: chief executive of the Halliburton oil company. Condoleezza Rice, 1991-2000: senior executive with the Chevron oil company, which named an oil tanker after her. And so on. But none of these trifling associations affects the integrity of God’s work.

In 1993, while ex-President George Bush was visiting the ever-democratic Kingdom of Kuwait to receive thanks for liberating them, somebody tried to kill him. The CIA believes that “somebody” was Saddam. Hence Bush Jr’s cry: “That man tried to kill my Daddy.” But it’s still not personal, this war. It’s still necessary. It’s still God’s work. It’s still about bringing freedom and democracy to oppressed Iraqi people.

To be a member of the team you must also believe in Absolute Good and Absolute Evil, and Bush, with a lot of help from his friends, family and God, is there to tell us which is which. What Bush won’t tell us is the truth about why we’re going to war. What is at stake is not an Axis of Evil — but oil, money and people’s lives. Saddam’s misfortune is to sit on the second biggest oilfield in the world. Bush wants it, and who helps him get it will receive a piece of the cake. And who doesn’t, won’t.

If Saddam didn’t have the oil, he could torture his citizens to his heart’s content. Other leaders do it every day — think Saudi Arabia, think Pakistan, think Turkey, think Syria, think Egypt.

Baghdad represents no clear and present danger to its neighbours, and none to the US or Britain. Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction, if he’s still got them, will be peanuts by comparison with the stuff Israel or America could hurl at him at five minutes’ notice. What is at stake is not an imminent military or terrorist threat, but the economic imperative of US growth. What is at stake is America’s need to demonstrate its military power to all of us — to Europe and Russia and China, and poor mad little North Korea, as well as the Middle East; to show who rules America at home, and who is to be ruled by America abroad.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6990
Well that places John Edwards on my hypocritical cock-knocker list.

"It's a security imperative. It is in America's national interest to help build an Iraq at peace with itself..."

What bullshit. Force a nation to bend a dysfunctional nation to your will down the barrel of a gun and you'll get a 'peaceful regional partner'. A nation whose previous despot you deported at one time? I'd like to know what he's been smoking. Perhaps he hasn't seen a world map. It quite clearly shows a phenomenal distance between the US and Iraq.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-15 00:51:23)

G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|7061|Sea to globally-cooled sea
eh, Hilary voted that way, too.  At the time there was a lot of evidence pointing to that.  I remember watching Colin Powell present to the United Nations...it was very convincing, with satellite photos and everything.

How quickly people forget.

I think that this entire war could have been avoided if the United Nations would follow through on its threats.  It's a useless organization.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6990

G3|Genius wrote:

At the time there was a lot of evidence pointing to that.  I remember watching Colin Powell present to the United Nations...it was very convincing, with satellite photos and everything.
I saw straight through that charade, as did most Europeans. The vial of anthrax bit at the UN was pure theatre.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-15 00:55:40)

Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7151
Obama will pick up a lot of Edtards votes when he drops out hopefully...
Love is the answer
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6845|'Murka

CameronPoe wrote:

Well that places John Edwards on my hypocritical cock-knocker list.

"It's a security imperative. It is in America's national interest to help build an Iraq at peace with itself..."

What bullshit. Force a nation to bend a dysfunctional nation to your will down the barrel of a gun and you'll get a 'peaceful regional partner'. A nation whose previous despot you deported at one time? I'd like to know what he's been smoking. Perhaps he hasn't seen a world map. It quite clearly shows a phenomenal distance between the US and Iraq.
Ummm...he's a politician. Why wasn't he on your list already?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6954|Πάϊ

G3|Genius wrote:

eh, Hilary voted that way, too.  At the time there was a lot of evidence pointing to that.  I remember watching Colin Powell present to the United Nations...it was very convincing, with satellite photos and everything.

How quickly people forget.

I think that this entire war could have been avoided if the United Nations would follow through on its threats.  It's a useless organization.
It wasn't convincing at all. We all knew then as we know now that it was a pack of smelly BS.

John le Carré sums it all up very nicely. It can't get any clearer than that.
ƒ³
elstonieo
Oil 4 Euros not $$$
+20|6773|EsSeX

CameronPoe wrote:

G3|Genius wrote:

At the time there was a lot of evidence pointing to that.  I remember watching Colin Powell present to the United Nations...it was very convincing, with satellite photos and everything.
I saw straight through that charade, as did most Europeans. The vial of anthrax bit at the UN was pure theatre.
I think it was also the moment that I realized he would never be President(Pity he probable would have made a good Rep Candidate for President)

Edit: spelling

Last edited by elstonieo (2008-01-15 13:14:38)

Dersmikner
Member
+147|6933|Texas
We (the U.S.) fund something like 30% of the budget for the United Nations. Here's a thought, if you want the UN to mean shit then all your countries should (a) commit the same number of troops the U.S. does to all these bullshit peace keeping missions in the worthless parts of Africa, and (b) cough up a little more money. What is the US, slightly less than 5% of the world's population? That's about right. 300 million of about 6.8 billion. And yet the world wants us to foot the big fat bill for the UN, and then sit around wile we get verbally abused in same, and then they want to bitch about how we don't take their advice.

Here's an idea world: Fuck you.

If you don't like the way we handle shit, fine. Don't buy from us, don't sell to us, don't ask us for aid or technology, and if we start a war with someone and you don't like it, fight on their side.

I'm about tired of all this United Nations bullshit. It's basically the U.S. funding a bitch session wherein the rest of the world criticizes us, then asks us for more money. Right about here I'm reiterating my "fuck the world" point...

Last edited by Dersmikner (2008-01-16 07:22:01)

Jepeto87
Member
+38|7120|Dublin
Agree with everything Le Carre said, smart man. The above poster should take the time to read it carefully.
PluggedValve
Member
+17|6775

G3|Genius wrote:

eh, Hilary voted that way, too.  At the time there was a lot of evidence pointing to that.  I remember watching Colin Powell present to the United Nations...it was very convincing, with satellite photos and everything.

How quickly people forget.

I think that this entire war could have been avoided if the United Nations would follow through on its threats.  It's a useless organization.
IMO, it wasnt as convincing as the senate thught.  Those satelite photo's could have been from new mexico for all i know.  Sure they said they were Iraq, but...  All they showed were a convoy of vehicles, most likely carrying commen goods, but they were labelled as "mobile chem lab's" as i recall.  Which seemed like speculation at the time because there really was no evidence of what was in the convoy, whether it was beans or anthrax or whatever.  They just assumed it was WMD's as a motive for war.  In the end it made an ASS out of U + ME. hehe.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6990

Dersmikner wrote:

We (the U.S.) funds something like 30% of the budget for the United Nations. Here's a thought, if you want the UN to mean shit then all your countries should (a) commit the same number of troops the U.S. does to all these bullshit peace keeping missions in the worthless parts of Africa, and (b) cough up a little more money. What is the US, slightly less than 5% of the world's population? That's about right. 300 million of about 6.8 billion. And yet the world wants us to foot the big fat bill for the UN, and then sit around wile we get verbally abused in same, and then they want to bitch about how we don't take their advice.

Here's an idea world: Fuck you.

If you don't like the way we handle shit, fine. Don't buy from us, don't sell to us, don't ask us for aid or technology, and if we start a war with someone and you don't like it, fight on their side.

I'm about tired of all this United Nations bullshit. It's basically the U.S. funding a bitch session wherein the rest of the world criticizes us, then asks us for more money. Right about here I'm reiterating my "fuck the world" point...
A lot of Europeans think the UN is a lot of shit too Dersmikner. I'd like to see it abolished myself. It's just a tool for legitimising war and protecting the interests of those on the security council. We can see what a steamping pile of horse manure the institution is.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-01-15 09:06:15)

Gawwad
My way or Haddaway!
+212|7119|Espoo, Finland

G3|Genius wrote:

eh, Hilary voted that way, too.  At the time there was a lot of evidence pointing to that.  I remember watching Colin Powell present to the United Nations...it was very convincing, with satellite photos and everything.
Photos of trucks on a street.
I remember myself standing infront of the TV going WTF when they broadcasted that.
'Are they seriously saying that's evidence enough to invade a country?!'
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6964|Global Command
What I want to know is; where the hell is my cheap gas?

The American people have gained nothing from this war whatsoever.

We should supply them all with low yield nukes and just stand back.

I concur; Here's an idea world: Fuck you.
PluggedValve
Member
+17|6775

ATG wrote:

What I want to know is; where the hell is my cheap gas?

The American people have gained nothing from this war whatsoever.

We should supply them all with low yield nukes and just stand back.

I concur; Here's an idea world: Fuck you.
They never intended for YOU to get cheap gas.  It was more about them(big oil) getting cheap gas, Halliburton contracts to re-build nations and a military budget of epic proportions(which truely does drive the US economy).  The American people have something to show for the war, unfortunately, even more angry brown people that dont like americans.  Sad, but true.
san4
The Mas
+311|7123|NYC, a place to live
I thought Edwards openly acknowledged that his support for the war was wrong.

Wikipedia wrote:

Although Edwards initially supported the Iraq War, he later re-evaluated his position and in November 2005 wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post in which he said he regretted voting for the Iraq War Resolution, and discussed three solutions for success in the conflict.
Edit: It doesn't make his change of opinion any less hilarious though. Admitting you got a huge issue wrong is like admitting you can't be trusted to make important decisions.

Last edited by san4 (2008-01-15 10:14:05)

PluggedValve
Member
+17|6775

san4 wrote:

I thought Edwards openly acknowledged that his support for the war was wrong.

Wikipedia wrote:

Although Edwards initially supported the Iraq War, he later re-evaluated his position and in November 2005 wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post in which he said he regretted voting for the Iraq War Resolution, and discussed three solutions for success in the conflict.
I think you are right.  Hindsight is 20/20 though.  Still better to admit a mistake than to continue the mistake even after it has been exposed.  WMD's much?????

I just dont understand how they believed the "eveidence" (using the term loosely) when it was released. 
Colin Powell/ Rumsfeld  "right here we see a mobile chem lab"
Edwards   " It looks like a truck"
Powell/ Rumsfeld  "that's what the enemy wants you to think"
Edwards  "OK, thats good enough for me.  Someone has to pay for 9/11 right or wrong, Lets go to war"

2 years later
Edwards  "Well it appears i made a mitake about the war in Iraq.  The voters have told me that they will only vote for me if i change my stance.  And the mobile chem lab also turned out to be a truck."
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

Jepeto87 wrote:

Agree with everything Le Carre said, smart man. The above poster should take the time to read it carefully.
Do you think the political goal of Bin laden was to protest American intervention in the Middle East?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7078

G3|Genius wrote:

I remember watching Colin Powell present to the United Nations
hate to break it to you but I remember a whole lot of us in the barracks watching the news thinking about how much bullshit this guy is selling on tv and getting mad at the fact that the American public was buying.   I used to have the biggest respect for General Powell.  Used to.   I even shook the mans hand when I was 16.

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