Maybe the Bible is the book about religion most people know, hence most arguments have to do with it.LaidBackNinja wrote:
I know, I know. But people tend to use the 'Bible Argument' a lot, which I think is completely irrelevant. It's just that most people here, who are against the death penalty, use arguments that only really 'count' against Christians if you know what I mean. You did not start this thread against any religion, but people have a tendency to turn it into a pro/anti-christian debate. Just look at the arguments given above, most have to do with the bible.
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Of course, I'm not saying it surprises me. Just that for once I'd like people not to do this: Religion = Christianity.sergeriver wrote:
Maybe the Bible is the book about religion most people know, hence most arguments have to do with it.LaidBackNinja wrote:
I know, I know. But people tend to use the 'Bible Argument' a lot, which I think is completely irrelevant. It's just that most people here, who are against the death penalty, use arguments that only really 'count' against Christians if you know what I mean. You did not start this thread against any religion, but people have a tendency to turn it into a pro/anti-christian debate. Just look at the arguments given above, most have to do with the bible.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell
Not quite. Large difference between commands to individuals and government.[pt] KEIOS wrote:
"You shall not kill"
jesus told you to forgive and love your enemy.
end of thread.
Individuals:
Do not murder (check the Hebrew word), steal, commit adultery, etc.
Forgive and love your enemies
Government:
See Romans passage posted earlier. "... rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong ..." Government has the responsibility to impose penalties for crime to regulate those who refuse to obey the law.
Well, from my example of my friend, who kidnapped an old couple, forced them to write out $100k in checks, killed them and chopped them up and put them in duffle bags and tried to send their body parts to the bottom of the river..then killed an accomplice and her parents and did the same with their bodies... yeah, it covers the Virginia Tech shooter in saying that they should be in prison. And then, in prison, the right rehab, training, re-education, etc can be employed to evaluate someone's ability to re-enter society. I never said people should just be forgiven and let go. I hate killers, rapists, pedos, and the whole lot just as much as anyone in this world and am afraid for my family's life when thinking my own family could be attacked by them. I'm just saying the limit of punishment should be life long incarceration at most...letting God do his work...allowing me a clean conscience and a way for forgiveness.LaidBackNinja wrote:
I see where you're coming from... but let's say the guy from the Virginia Tech shootings did not kill himself but was arrested instead. Would you want him to go back into society and live a normal life? Do you honestly believe he ever could? I, for one, would never be able to trust such a person.
Oh yeah?sergeriver wrote:
What happened with "God gives life and only God can take it away" or "Only God can judge you"?Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
And what? Death penalty is here, and will be for ever, God would want us to have it to punish the criminals, if you don't want to die, don't kill someone.sergeriver wrote:
No, I'm just saying that some parts of the Bible or Qu'ran seem a bit violent, that's all. No offense.
Once God creates you, he hands the responsibility to your parents, then, to you, he makes us, not totally controls us.
Romans just used Christianity and manipulated it and bastardised Jesus's teachings just so they could (keep) power.Stingray24 wrote:
Not quite. Large difference between commands to individuals and government.[pt] KEIOS wrote:
"You shall not kill"
jesus told you to forgive and love your enemy.
end of thread.
Individuals:
Do not murder (check the Hebrew word), steal, commit adultery, etc.
Forgive and love your enemies
Government:
See Romans passage posted earlier. "... rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong ..." Government has the responsibility to impose penalties for crime to regulate those who refuse to obey the law.
Hence why you have all that Pope shit. I wonder what Jesus would actually think of how his religion has turned out. The pope would probably be the first fucker to get zapped if Jesus comes back
If you apply the English version of the Commandments, who is it referring to? Are we accomplices to the so-called murder that is the death penalty because we tolerate it? Also, someone quoted Leviticus earlier as well, where many of Ye Olde SKool punishments are death, but who is to administer that penalty?
I, for one, don't buy into that crap that I am an associate to the killing of the death penalty by tolerating it. That's how you get the crazies in society anyway, because you can't simply change something like that alone.
I, for one, don't buy into that crap that I am an associate to the killing of the death penalty by tolerating it. That's how you get the crazies in society anyway, because you can't simply change something like that alone.
You are not addressing the part where only God can take your life away.Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
Oh yeah?sergeriver wrote:
What happened with "God gives life and only God can take it away" or "Only God can judge you"?Bf2-GeneralArnott wrote:
And what? Death penalty is here, and will be for ever, God would want us to have it to punish the criminals, if you don't want to die, don't kill someone.
Once God creates you, he hands the responsibility to your parents, then, to you, he makes us, not totally controls us.
The Romans really won Christian support with Nero's antics eh? Was it his use of the Christians as a scapegoat for the burning of Rome or his feeding them to the lions that finally convinced them? The Christians must have played a huge part in helping Rome keep power after that. Also, not Catholic myself, hence the Pope means nothing to me.Mek-Izzle wrote:
Romans just used Christianity and manipulated it and bastardised Jesus's teachings just so they could (keep) power.Stingray24 wrote:
Large difference between commands to individuals and government.
Individuals:
Do not murder (check the Hebrew word), steal, commit adultery, etc.
Forgive and love your enemies
Government:
See Romans passage posted earlier. "... rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong ..." Government has the responsibility to impose penalties for crime to regulate those who refuse to obey the law.
Hence why you have all that Pope shit. I wonder what Jesus would actually think of how his religion has turned out. The pope would probably be the first fucker to get zapped if Jesus comes back
Edit: fixed punctuation
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-01-16 16:09:54)
They don't.
If you believe in the whole heaven/hell thing;
You kill them and they go to hell, eternal damnation is far worse than anything you can dish out, so what's the point?
You kill them and they've repented and they go to heaven, you just did them a favour?
You kill them and they go to hell, eternal damnation is far worse than anything you can dish out, so what's the point?
You kill them and they've repented and they go to heaven, you just did them a favour?
Forgive those who trespass against you?
Turn the other cheek?
Turn the other cheek?
eye for an eye
rubber baby buggy bumper
De facto establishment?CameronPoe wrote:
Forgive those who trespass against you?
Turn the other cheek?
They don't work together, one has nothing to do with the other.
Pretty sure you could use religion to justify almost any stance you want on an isssue. Just depends on which passage you choose to follow.
Actually, if you look at the history of religion, they work quite well together. Think Inquisition.sergeriver wrote:
I'm not religious and I don't support the death penalty, except in extreme cases. What I never understood, and I'd like some people with religious beliefs to explain, is the fact that they believe in God and support the death penalty all at the same time. How is that possible? What happened with "God gives life and only God can take it away" or "Only God can judge you"? Please, let's try to avoid another religious v. atheists flame war if possible.
Granted, atheists handle it with skill as well. Think Communism.
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