Actually I agree with you, I am pro-choice. I just want people to be very aware of the choices they make, since they have to live with them. I myself found this out the hard way.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Who gives a flying fuck whether I have kids or not. Whether I have them or not is not the point. We aren't talking about people being forced to have abortions, we are talking about people being able to make that choice.lowing wrote:
No worries Stingray, the ones who spout off shit do not have kids and have no idea what they are talking about.Stingray24 wrote:
If you gentlemen wish to debate this issue again, I'll gladly meet you in another thread. This is simply a memorial to all the babies that have been killed by abortion.
And believe it or not fucktard, I have no problems further limiting the extent to which elective abortions can be performed; elective abortions should be limited to first trimester as far as I'm concerned.
Dr's office, or coat hanger?
It easy for everyone to make everyone else's decisions for them. Especially when it comes to conservatives and women.
It easy for everyone to make everyone else's decisions for them. Especially when it comes to conservatives and women.
Sorry about the name calling. Just got a little upset.lowing wrote:
Actually I agree with you, I am pro-choice. I just want people to be very aware of the choices they make, since they have to live with them. I myself found this out the hard way.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Who gives a flying fuck whether I have kids or not. Whether I have them or not is not the point. We aren't talking about people being forced to have abortions, we are talking about people being able to make that choice.lowing wrote:
No worries Stingray, the ones who spout off shit do not have kids and have no idea what they are talking about.
And believe it or not fucktard, I have no problems further limiting the extent to which elective abortions can be performed; elective abortions should be limited to first trimester as far as I'm concerned.
Once you hold your child in your arms for the first time, you'll understand, Agent. Holding my newborn child was an absolutely beautiful moment that I've been fortunate enough to experience twice. After my son was born 8 weeks early and I saw how perfectly he was formed, though he was only 3 pounds 13 ounces, I opposed abortion even more than I had previously.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Who gives a flying fuck whether I have kids or not. Whether I have them or not is not the point. We aren't talking about people being forced to have abortions, we are talking about people being able to make that choice.lowing wrote:
No worries Stingray, the ones who spout off shit do not have kids and have no idea what they are talking about.Stingray24 wrote:
If you gentlemen wish to debate this issue again, I'll gladly meet you in another thread. This is simply a memorial to all the babies that have been killed by abortion.
And believe it or not fucktard, I have no problems further limiting the extent to which elective abortions can be performed; elective abortions should be limited to first trimester as far as I'm concerned.
Even first trimester abortions are absolutely gruesome. Don't make me post pics. Elective abortion should not exist.
So you agree with the 'shit' I 'spout'? I don't think you have the right to decide how someone else should live their life. Would you want me to intrude on yours? I didn't think so.lowing wrote:
Actually I agree with you, I am pro-choice. I just want people to be very aware of the choices they make, since they have to live with them. I myself found this out the hard way.
But someone else's abortion doesn't affect you or your child. One of the problems with America is everyone thinks they know what everyone else should be doing. Wether it be abortion, drug use, or tattoos and piercings. Its not you or your wife's body, don't worry about it.Stingray24 wrote:
Once you hold your child in your arms for the first time, you'll understand, Agent. Holding my newborn child was an absolutely beautiful moment that I've been fortunate enough to experience twice. After my son was born 8 weeks early and I saw how perfectly he was formed, though he was only 3 pounds 13 ounces, I opposed abortion even more than I had previously.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Who gives a flying fuck whether I have kids or not. Whether I have them or not is not the point. We aren't talking about people being forced to have abortions, we are talking about people being able to make that choice.lowing wrote:
No worries Stingray, the ones who spout off shit do not have kids and have no idea what they are talking about.
And believe it or not fucktard, I have no problems further limiting the extent to which elective abortions can be performed; elective abortions should be limited to first trimester as far as I'm concerned.
Even first trimester abortions are absolutely gruesome. Don't make me post pics. Elective abortion should not exist.
eh...Uzique wrote:
Technically you're not missing out on all of those wonderful images that you posted... you're more realistically missing out on a bunch of molecules and tissue bundled together in early stages of foetal development, with no sentience or sapience.
Is this actually a D&ST topic or is it some anti-abortion agitprop?
ok, I gotta respond to this.
First, let me say that I am against abortion at will...dont go get knocked up and use abortion as a form of birth control. Thats just wrong...
I do however believe that in cases of involuntary pregancy, the mother should have a choice. If she cannot make that choice, for whatever reason, local/state/federal rules should apply, no question. I wont debate my politics, nor morality here. Thats not my point.
With that being said, a personal look on this particular quote.
My wife and I lost 4 of those bundles of tissue and molecules before finally having a healthy, beautiful boy...6 almost 7 years ago. Let me tell you, the loss of each of those "bundles of molecules and tissue" were devastating to us...
Speak something such as that when you have lived it. Then come and discuss.
It's not anyone else's body IT IS A BABY!!!!!!!!!! Where's his/her rights? He/she has to die for the sake of his/her mother's damned convenience?!?!?!?!??!! For the record, people can go ahead and use drugs, get a tat, get a piercing, have their sex however they want behind closed doors as long as they're not hurting anyone else. I draw the line when it comes to an adult killing a baby for convenience because they refuse to take responsibility for the life they've started. Makes me sick to my stomach.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
But someone else's abortion doesn't affect you or your child. One of the problems with America is everyone thinks they know what everyone else should be doing. Wether it be abortion, drug use, or tattoos and piercings. Its not you or your wife's body, don't worry about it.Stingray24 wrote:
Once you hold your child in your arms for the first time, you'll understand, Agent. Holding my newborn child was an absolutely beautiful moment that I've been fortunate enough to experience twice. After my son was born 8 weeks early and I saw how perfectly he was formed, though he was only 3 pounds 13 ounces, I opposed abortion even more than I had previously.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Who gives a flying fuck whether I have kids or not. Whether I have them or not is not the point. We aren't talking about people being forced to have abortions, we are talking about people being able to make that choice.
And believe it or not fucktard, I have no problems further limiting the extent to which elective abortions can be performed; elective abortions should be limited to first trimester as far as I'm concerned.
Even first trimester abortions are absolutely gruesome. Don't make me post pics. Elective abortion should not exist.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-01-21 11:42:48)
Which is what most abortions are used for. Wasn't there a statistic a while back that said only .1% of abortions were for rape/incest?
But the fact is, you can overturn Roe v Wade, then they turn to close hangers. Overtunring that law will not "save lives". Your naive to think so. BTW you remember the womb?Stingray24 wrote:
It's not anyone else's body IT IS A BABY!!!!!!!!!! Where's his/her rights? He/she has to die for the sake of his/her mother's damned convenience?!?!?!?!??!! For the record, people can go ahead and use drugs, get a tat, get a piercing, have their sex however they want behind closed doors as long as they're not hurting anyone else. I draw the line when it comes to an adult killing a baby for convenience because they refuse to take responsibility for the life they've started. Makes me sick to my stomach.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
But someone else's abortion doesn't affect you or your child. One of the problems with America is everyone thinks they know what everyone else should be doing. Wether it be abortion, drug use, or tattoos and piercings. Its not you or your wife's body, don't worry about it.Stingray24 wrote:
Once you hold your child in your arms for the first time, you'll understand, Agent. Holding my newborn child was an absolutely beautiful moment that I've been fortunate enough to experience twice. After my son was born 8 weeks early and I saw how perfectly he was formed, though he was only 3 pounds 13 ounces, I opposed abortion even more than I had previously.
Even first trimester abortions are absolutely gruesome. Don't make me post pics. Elective abortion should not exist.
If you wanna debate it do it another thread. Fact is it's legal here and in other countries, and for various reasons which I may list in another thread. I'm glad.
No, I agree that no one should intrude on anothers life, in such a way. At the same time, I do not think you yourself know what you are talking about from the emotional aspect of such decisions.SenorToenails wrote:
So you agree with the 'shit' I 'spout'? I don't think you have the right to decide how someone else should live their life. Would you want me to intrude on yours? I didn't think so.lowing wrote:
Actually I agree with you, I am pro-choice. I just want people to be very aware of the choices they make, since they have to live with them. I myself found this out the hard way.
lol Utopia States of America?!The_Mac wrote:
Not really. In the United States, people are civilized (relatively speaking) in America--I don't think you're going to have huge chances of that.jord wrote:
Could one of the little ones grown up to be the next Hitler, Hussain, Bin laden.
Works both ways.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Abortion is harmful and damaging to the mother even when a doctor does it and it's labeled a medical procedure. I refuse to advocate killing innocent human beings under the idea that no one will remember the event. AA life is still snuffed out and the mother and father will remember long after the doctor has forgotten. I do not remember the womb, that doesn't mean it was ok for my mother to kill me up until age 3 when I have memories ...Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
But the fact is, you can overturn Roe v Wade, then they turn to close hangers. Overtunring that law will not "save lives". Your naive to think so. BTW you remember the womb?Stingray24 wrote:
It's not anyone else's body IT IS A BABY!!!!!!!!!! Where's his/her rights? He/she has to die for the sake of his/her mother's damned convenience?!?!?!?!??!! For the record, people can go ahead and use drugs, get a tat, get a piercing, have their sex however they want behind closed doors as long as they're not hurting anyone else. I draw the line when it comes to an adult killing a baby for convenience because they refuse to take responsibility for the life they've started. Makes me sick to my stomach.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
But someone else's abortion doesn't affect you or your child. One of the problems with America is everyone thinks they know what everyone else should be doing. Wether it be abortion, drug use, or tattoos and piercings. Its not you or your wife's body, don't worry about it.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-01-21 11:57:58)
Does it matter if I don't fully grasp the emotional aspect of such a decision? Does anyone fully grasp the emotional aspect to any large decision?lowing wrote:
No, I agree that no one should intrude on anothers life, in such a way. At the same time, I do not think you yourself know what you are talking about from the emotional aspect of such decisions.
The answer is 'No' to both of those questions. If I make a decision that haunts me for the rest of my life, then I have no one to blame but myself. No one has the right to intrude and tell me that "You don't understand the implications. Let me make that decision for you."
When does life begin?Stingray24 wrote:
A life is still snuffed out and the mother and father will remember long after the doctor has forgotten. I do not remember the womb, that doesn't mean it was ok for my mother to kill me up until age 3 when I have memories ...
Biology says life begins at conception for human beings.
Since you asked a question, I'll ask one of my own. When does human life end?
Since you asked a question, I'll ask one of my own. When does human life end?
Last edited by Stingray24 (2008-01-21 12:16:20)
i agree, however, I think a counciler should be sought out to help you understand the decision you are about to make. So you do not live haunted the rest of your life. Lets face it, abortion is used as a form of birth control 2 or 3 times by the same woman, a person with this kinda irresponsible behavior needs to educated as to what she is actually doing to herself and the baby. Offering people the chance to see what their decisions will bring should be allowed. If after seeing what you are going to do, you still are free to decide your own solutions. you will at least be doing it with your eyes wide open.SenorToenails wrote:
Does it matter if I don't fully grasp the emotional aspect of such a decision? Does anyone fully grasp the emotional aspect to any large decision?lowing wrote:
No, I agree that no one should intrude on anothers life, in such a way. At the same time, I do not think you yourself know what you are talking about from the emotional aspect of such decisions.
The answer is 'No' to both of those questions. If I make a decision that haunts me for the rest of my life, then I have no one to blame but myself. No one has the right to intrude and tell me that "You don't understand the implications. Let me make that decision for you."
I was going to say this when I read the OP, and will further this point.SenorToenails wrote:
When does life begin?
We take that a life of a chick is when it hatches from the egg - when it leaves the area from which it has been for quite a while. When it hatches, it is given to be born - not before, as we eat eggs and such and we don't think that we're eating chicks. Obviously, we could never bring ourselves to eat those cute, poor, innocent little balls of yellow fluff - so it's born when it hatches; not before hatching is it deemed born.
By the very same token, a human child can be given as born when it leaves the womb and is 'out in the world'. By the very same token that we apply to animals - oh which we are, or would anyone reading this care to class us as anything but in essence? - human baby's are only born upon leaving the womb. Thus, the point that I have come to say here is that abortion does not take lives as those lives aren't there to take.
Let me qualify this: you may say that lives could be that could save humanity. But the fact of the matter is that they aren't lives. Sure, I could be a millionaire tomorrow - but I won't. When does someone cease to be 'to be' and become 'is'? It's an unanswerable question as to when someone becomes a human if you wish to take the point of view that a foetus is alive and is that life. Also, could not those poor chicks I mentioned earlier have had random mutations and helped furthered the chicken population in evolution immensely?
Another point I'd like to raise is how slanted and biased the OP was - fair enough, so is this post. However... it seemed extremely religiously [read: Christian] slanted to the point that I felt rather sick and sad. Not for the children, but for reading that. It was like reading some sort of propaganda to make you feel bad and think "well, that's terrible... hey! that cute kid has a ribbon saying it's from God... I don't want to harm children like that if they're a gift from God! I know! - I'll be religious [Christian]!" Now, I know I'm focusing on that one picture and I'm probably being extremely irrational... but it just annoyed me.
Abortion, to me, is a choice. Sometimes it'd be better not to have a child than to end up ruining your life and another's by letting them be born. These are sometimes in exceptional circumstances, but some people just aren't ever ready to be parents.
My opinions here will probably be discarded by whoever reads this, going on what I saw lowing type because I'm a 16 year old who hasn't had kids and so obviously wouldn't understand...
So be it.
This thread is bullshit. Stingray makes an OP that is completely biased and one sided, and when people point that out, he accuses them of derailing it and turning it into an argument.
Would all of those would-be babies be good people? Probably not, if the mother who aborted their would-be self were so desperate to not have a kid. Chances are much higher they'd be neglected kids and fucked up adults.
Maybe Stingray will have a more open-minded opinion of this issue in another life. Then again, this is really what DST is all about. Throw out some bait, wait for someone to snatch it, then accuse them of politicizing the issue when you've already done it for them.
Would all of those would-be babies be good people? Probably not, if the mother who aborted their would-be self were so desperate to not have a kid. Chances are much higher they'd be neglected kids and fucked up adults.
Maybe Stingray will have a more open-minded opinion of this issue in another life. Then again, this is really what DST is all about. Throw out some bait, wait for someone to snatch it, then accuse them of politicizing the issue when you've already done it for them.
Pro-Choice. A woman in such a situation is more capable of making this choice than a group of elderly judges. IF (and she may not) she finds it hard to deal with her decision she just has to get on with her life. Though im sure there are quite a few women who have had abortions in the past because it was'nt the right time to be a mother and who have gone on to have a good family a few years down the line. And the world may still get its Mozart or Hitler...
Those are some tough pictures to stomach, but thats life. Post some pic's of battered rape victims.
NOTE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion I know we cant always believe Wiki but Partial birth abortions only represent 0.17% and that could happen to any women who's child dies or is a danger to her late in her pregnancy and would be rare in normal abortions.
Those are some tough pictures to stomach, but thats life. Post some pic's of battered rape victims.
NOTE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion I know we cant always believe Wiki but Partial birth abortions only represent 0.17% and that could happen to any women who's child dies or is a danger to her late in her pregnancy and would be rare in normal abortions.
Last edited by Jepeto87 (2008-01-21 13:01:47)
Woo hoo! Party! Let's get some prego's and coathanger them for old times sake.
Simply false, partial birth abortion involved delivering a full term baby until only his/her head is still inside and then suctioning out the baby's brain. NOTHING to do with the health of the mother. My wife's life was in danger delivering my son 8 weeks early, that doesn't mean he deserved to die.Jepeto87 wrote:
NOTE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion I know we cant always believe Wiki but Partial birth abortions only represent 0.17% and that could happen to any women who's child dies or is a danger to her late in her pregnancy and would be rare in normal abortions.
That is heavily debated. I read an interesting article about this. I will try to find it for you.Stingray24 wrote:
Biology says life begins at conception for human beings.
I believe human life ends when brain activity ceases. I also think that a good deciding time of when a fetus becomes alive enough is when it has discernible brain activity. The only problem is, you can't do an EEG on a fetus, but studies on premature babies show identifiable brain waves around 24 weeks or so.Stingray24 wrote:
Since you asked a question, I'll ask one of my own. When does human life end?
Its not even legal in the US! Why post the pic? I might at well post a picture of a gas chamber in opposition to someone use of natural gas over some bio-fuel! Strange comparison I know but I hope you see what I mean but you've annoyed me !!Stingray24 wrote:
Simply false, partial birth abortion involved delivering a full term baby until only his/her head is still inside and then suctioning out the baby's brain. NOTHING to do with the health of the mother. My wife's life was in danger delivering my son 8 weeks early, that doesn't mean he deserved to die.Jepeto87 wrote:
NOTE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion I know we cant always believe Wiki but Partial birth abortions only represent 0.17% and that could happen to any women who's child dies or is a danger to her late in her pregnancy and would be rare in normal abortions.