Poll

How many kids should a couple be allowed to have?

Not more than 328%28% - 46
Not more than 235%35% - 57
Only 18%8% - 14
Other number (specify)26%26% - 42
Total: 159
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6821

China's policy is as many as you want until you get a boy.  Then you have to stop.

This would work in reducing population in the long run (and making prospects much better for men in the meantime), but it would take a while to have much effect.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6561|North Tonawanda, NY

some_random_panda wrote:

China's policy is as many as you want until you get a boy.  Then you have to stop.

This would work in reducing population in the long run (and making prospects much better for men in the meantime), but it would take a while to have much effect.
It also has the side effect of being intrusive and controlling.  But hey, why split hairs?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6841|'Murka

some_random_panda wrote:

China's policy is as many as you want until you get a boy.  Then you have to stop.

This would work in reducing population in the long run (and making prospects much better for men in the meantime), but it would take a while to have much effect.
Um, not really. It's limited to one, regardless of sex. In certain rural areas, they are allowed two if the first one is female or disabled. It's just that the Chinese culture does not place any value in female children...they are considered a burden to be tolerated until you can marry them off. So families (normally rural families) drop the girls off at orphanages and markets and such. That's if they allow them to live at all. It's not nearly as bad in the urban areas as in the rural ones, but it is still a prevalent cultural trait.

So what you end up with is an imbalance in the male/female ratio, which is what China has now. More men than women in the current 20-something generation. Cultural biases + population controls + inconsistent enforcement = /fail.

Want to learn more about it? Read The Lost Daughters of China and The Good Earth.

Or adopt a child from China...you'll learn all about it.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden
There are many other ways to enforce somekind of birth control than using Chinas example. Just beacuse China is failing due to several comlicated reasons doesn't mean that we would fail in implementing birth control.

And why would anyone, anywhere want more than 3 or 4 children anyway? It's more than enough to pass on your genes and if 1 or 2 of them dies, you still have 1 or 2 left. Please explain this to me.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6841|'Murka

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

There are many other ways to enforce somekind of birth control than using Chinas example. Just beacuse China is failing due to several comlicated reasons doesn't mean that we would fail in implementing birth control.

And why would anyone, anywhere want more than 3 or 4 children anyway? It's more than enough to pass on your genes and if 1 or 2 of them dies, you still have 1 or 2 left. Please explain this to me.
Do you have children of your own?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden
No, which makes me less credible as a source of how many children one would want. But, most people I know dont have more than 2 or 3 siblings. And I only have one sister of my own. Which to me seems perfectly enough. I can't imagin wanting to have more than 2 or 3 kids when my time comes.
So explain to my why someone wants to raise 5 or more kids? I can see that some poeple enjoy having a lot of kids around, but why have so  many of your own? And ironically, the people having a lot of kids are very often the people who have a hard time paying for all them.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6841|'Murka

To each their own.

I can certainly understand the desire for having multiple children. I can't describe it as anything other than pure joy. However, being the pragmatist that I am, I can't see the justification for having a litter as opopsed to a couple of kids. But that's just me. I can't imagine any situation where it's OK for the government to limit how many kids you can have...any more than I can see where it's OK for the government to force you to have kids if you don't want them.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|7140|Oklahoma City

FEOS wrote:

To each their own.

I can certainly understand the desire for having multiple children. I can't describe it as anything other than pure joy. However, being the pragmatist that I am, I can't see the justification for having a litter as opopsed to a couple of kids. But that's just me. I can't imagine any situation where it's OK for the government to limit how many kids you can have...any more than I can see where it's OK for the government to force you to have kids if you don't want them.
oooo Good point... If the population were low and we were discussing everyone being FORCED to have a kid by the time the were 22 or something, everyone might have an entirely different view.. Nice touch.
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden
It's a lot easier to tell people to start having a lot more sex than it is to make them stop having it. So it's not really the same thing
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|7140|Oklahoma City

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

It's a lot easier to tell people to start having a lot more sex than it is to make them stop having it. So it's not really the same thing
No it isn't at all. Look at the number of people who don't ever want kids. Look at the number of people that want long careers first. Look at the number of women, specifically, that would be knocked out of doing what they want to do because they have kids...

Thinking "sex" makes being a parent and having kids a lot easier is just ignorant.
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden
It was a simplification. And it is true that many people dont want children. But still the population of most countries on earth keeps growing and growing, mainly in 3rd world countries but also here in the America and in Europe. So the countries with large populations such as India and China are the ones who must take hard action against their growth but we must also do our part.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6561|North Tonawanda, NY

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

It was a simplification. And it is true that many people dont want children. But still the population of most countries on earth keeps growing and growing, mainly in 3rd world countries but also here in the America and in Europe. So the countries with large populations such as India and China are the ones who must take hard action against their growth but we must also do our part.
If by we you mean you, then by all means, take whatever action you feel is your part.  But to ask the government to do that?  No thanks.
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden
Then I guess we just disagree on that matter then. And I don't see what it is that is so frightening and bad about the government (together with inhabitants of its society) agreeing over some form of restriction.

Atleast we can agree on that many third world countries should deal with their overpopulation, right?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6841|'Murka

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

Then I guess we just disagree on that matter then. And I don't see what it is that is so frightening and bad about the government (together with inhabitants of its society) agreeing over some form of restriction.

Atleast we can agree on that many third world countries should deal with their overpopulation, right?
Preferably by improving their infrastructure so that it supports their growing population, rather than trying to control their population.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden

FEOS wrote:

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

Then I guess we just disagree on that matter then. And I don't see what it is that is so frightening and bad about the government (together with inhabitants of its society) agreeing over some form of restriction.

Atleast we can agree on that many third world countries should deal with their overpopulation, right?
Preferably by improving their infrastructure so that it supports their growing population, rather than trying to control their population.
Preferably a mix of both.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6841|'Murka

Nah...controlling the population's biological processes is a bit too "Big Brother".
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
PspRpg-7
-
+961|7128

It should depend on your income, and maybe credit. Seeing that some families have about 10 kids with both parents working minimum wage.
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|7140|Oklahoma City

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

But still the population of most countries on earth keeps growing and growing,
That's also a very misleading statement...

Of 230 countries listed:
25 of them are losing population yearly.
The largest rate of growth is only 4.5%
You only have to drop down to number 50 to get below 2% growth.
The AVERAGE population growth rate for the WORLD is only 1.17%...

Where is this super boom of too many people flowing over the Earth that everyone keeps talking about? The reason to LIMIT how many children we can have?

I think 99% of this thread comes from people scared of 3rd world countries (who have a lot of kids, but then most of them die anyway), China (who we shouldn't be following the example of unless we want ALL MEN), and stereotypes of Illegal Immigrants and Welfare... None of which, by any shape or means, represents the entire world...
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7145|US

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

Then I guess we just disagree on that matter then. And I don't see what it is that is so frightening and bad about the government (together with inhabitants of its society) agreeing over some form of restriction.

Atleast we can agree on that many third world countries should deal with their overpopulation, right?
There's the problem.  People do not agree!
The world population is not "booming," and European and American birthrates are below population sustaining levels.  Simply put, we don't need population control to start with.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...all three get restricted by your plan.
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Personally I think its selfish to have hordes of kids.  In this day and age we don't need to have 10 kids a couple to maintain the population.  If we keep multiplying exponentially, all of this ignorant breeding will result in a global crisis.  There is no question about it.  This earth will not maintain a population of 20 or 30 billion people.  And it's not too many generations away..
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultran … ldBank.gif
^^^^^^
What about that?

Last edited by Snorkelfarsan (2008-01-23 12:41:08)

HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|7140|Oklahoma City

Snorkelfarsan wrote:

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Personally I think its selfish to have hordes of kids.  In this day and age we don't need to have 10 kids a couple to maintain the population.  If we keep multiplying exponentially, all of this ignorant breeding will result in a global crisis.  There is no question about it.  This earth will not maintain a population of 20 or 30 billion people.  And it's not too many generations away..
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultran … ldBank.gif
^^^^^^
What about that?
What about it? At a 10+ year (I only went back and looked that far) we have stayed at around 1-1.25% population growth as a world... That means it would take at least SEVENTY years to double the population. Look at technology over the last 70 years and see what was invented, improved, and streamlined... You don't think in 70 years from now we will be any better off than we are now?
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7037|Stockholm, Sweden
Probably, but the earth as a planet still has some issues all ready with supporting 6 billion people. And it wont be easier when we're 12... Why continue growing when we don't have to? Why make it so much harder for ourselves and for coming generations?
HITNRUNXX
Member
+220|7140|Oklahoma City
Where does the planet have issues supporting the current number of people?
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|7097

As others have said, as many as you can afford to feed, shelter, educate, and give an advantage to. 

I don't know about you, but if all Hell breaks lose because of overpopulation, I'd rather be surrounded by a ton of relatives.

As far as China, and the gender population imbalance, I'd worry about when there aren't enough Chinese women to go around.
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|7085

Other number = infinity. This isn't communist China.

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