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2008-01-21 16:32:30
PureFodder
Member
+225|6719
I'm all for ending positive discrimination, I'm also all for ending discrimination too.

As far as the US being the worlds charity, The US is the least generous of the industrial nations in terms of %GDP given, donation per capita and is a world leader along wth France in 'phantom aid' (aid that is pledged to another country but is actually given to US companies instead). The rest of the world spends far more effort trying to stop the US from giving millitary aid and invading other countries than it does asking for help. See any recent middle east threads.
2008-01-21 16:36:29
Gfinners
Member
+17|6737|Cornwall, England
You know what happened to the last guy who had a dream?
2008-01-21 16:37:58
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7105|UK

Gfinners wrote:

You know what happened to the last guy who had a dream?
wet the bed?
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2008-01-21 16:38:32
justice
OctoPoster
+978|7175|OctoLand

Gfinners wrote:

You know what happened to the last guy who had a dream?
No, do you?
I know fucking karate
2008-01-21 16:41:13
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6564|North Tonawanda, NY

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Not really, Brit is short for British.  Yank is more akin to Limey.......

But you've missed my point, it wasn't about the term "yank" it was that they were saying they didn't want Americans running their club, if you said the same about Pakistanis or Kenyans it would be deemded racist.

Please read my posts more carefully in future.....
I did read your post carefully. 

If the sign had said 'pakis' or 'darkys' or whatever, then it would have been racist.  I got that part.  But 'yank' is not a racist term, and I know now that it was not your point.  It was not at all clear before.
2008-01-21 16:41:46
G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|7060|Sea to globally-cooled sea

justice wrote:

You know what happened to the last guy who had a dream?
I think the answer is "he got shot"

I see "black" as I see "blond."  It's nothing more than the most obvious trait with which we can identify the person.

Last edited by G3|Genius (2008-01-21 16:42:21)

2008-01-21 16:47:10
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6564|North Tonawanda, NY

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

MY POINT ISN'T ABOUT THE TERM "YANK" IT'S ABOUT NOT WANTING AMERICANS TO RUN THEIR CLUB, THAT IS WHAT IS RACIST!!!!! or would be if it were any black or Asian race.
I don't know if I would term that racist, since it was against a nation, and not a racial group.

Perhaps it is nationalistic, but certainly not racist.
2008-01-21 16:57:51
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

Dream.
https://i27.tinypic.com/2142gcx.png

Bill Clinton drops off to sleep during MLK commemoration.
http://www.nypost.com/video/?vxSiteId=0 … itrate=300
^^Must watch
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-01-21 18:21:26
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6758|New Haven, CT

rawls2 wrote:

I have a dream too.....I dream one day the white people will stop crying about the benefits minorities recieve, I dream one day they will realize  even with "affirmative action" white people still have way better opportunities to become something. I dream one day the white man will understand that the immigrants and minorities are not the root of his problems. I dream one day I will stop seeing able body white homeless men begging for money. I have a dream....
When someone is offered a 13,000 dollar scholarship from a University solely because they are Hawaiian, affirmative action has gone too far.
2008-01-21 18:27:24
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7206|PNW

rawls2 wrote:

Zimmer wrote:

naightknifar wrote:

Dreams are dreams, life sucks.

Get used to it.

Edit: Boldness added for Emphasis.
And people aren't allowed to dream?

Get the fuck out of this thread before I ban your ass forever.
lol....we need another great leader like MLK. We are hurting when it comes to role models.
Another great plagiarist for the win!
2008-01-21 18:43:33
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7096|USA
Happy MLK Day!
2008-01-21 18:45:59
clogar
damn ain't it great to be a laxer
+32|6390|Minnesota

nukchebi0 wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

I have a dream too.....I dream one day the white people will stop crying about the benefits minorities recieve, I dream one day they will realize  even with "affirmative action" white people still have way better opportunities to become something. I dream one day the white man will understand that the immigrants and minorities are not the root of his problems. I dream one day I will stop seeing able body white homeless men begging for money. I have a dream....
When someone is offered a 13,000 dollar scholarship from a University solely because they are Hawaiian, affirmative action has gone too far.
there are also italian american scholarships and a ton of other scholarships for only caucasians
2008-01-21 19:35:21
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6839|North Carolina
Great OP, and ig's picture of illiterate dumbasses was great too.
2008-01-21 20:27:02
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7206|PNW

rawls2 wrote:

I dream one day I will stop seeing able body white homeless men begging for money.
You mean like that one white guy in a wheelchair on the corner of K-Mart and a US Post Office that talks in burps from his mauled throat and knocks donated mochas over with his clawed up hands, because the US Military gave him post-injury job training that he can never do? Those able-bodied white homeless men? I'm sorry if all you've seen are white guys in clean jeans with a bottle of Mr. Pibb, a pack of cigarettes and a beaten-up cardboard sign, but you're generalizing just a bit.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-01-21 20:29:12)

2008-01-21 23:40:30
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6540|eXtreme to the maX
So lets see, within living memory blacks have been raped, lynched, set on fire, segregated, discriminated against by govt policy etc etc.
Historically they were enslaved, born into slavery, treated worse than animals.
The Florida I saw is still virulently racist, as is a lot of the US.

Now there is a bit of reverse discrimination? Big deal, stop blubbing, it'll balance out eventually.
Fuck Israel
2008-01-21 23:44:42
PspRpg-7
-
+961|7132

rawls2 wrote:

Zimmer wrote:

naightknifar wrote:

Dreams are dreams, life sucks.

Get used to it.

Edit: Boldness added for Emphasis.
And people aren't allowed to dream?

Get the fuck out of this thread before I ban your ass forever.
lol....we need another great leader like MLK. We are hurting when it comes to role models.
We have plenty of role models. Look at our celebrities and TV stars! Don't be so silly.
2008-01-21 23:45:03
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6758|New Haven, CT

Dilbert_X wrote:

So lets see, within living memory blacks have been raped, lynched, set on fire, segregated, discriminated against by govt policy etc etc.
Historically they were enslaved, born into slavery, treated worse than animals.
The Florida I saw is still virulently racist, as is a lot of the US.

Now there is a bit of reverse discrimination? Big deal, stop blubbing, it'll balance out eventually.
What did Ghandi say?

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

PspRpg-7 wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

Zimmer wrote:


And people aren't allowed to dream?

Get the fuck out of this thread before I ban your ass forever.
lol....we need another great leader like MLK. We are hurting when it comes to role models.
We have plenty of role models. Look at our celebrities and TV stars! Don't be so silly.
Yep.

Last edited by nukchebi0 (2008-01-21 23:46:25)

2008-01-21 23:52:18
PspRpg-7
-
+961|7132

nukchebi0 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So lets see, within living memory blacks have been raped, lynched, set on fire, segregated, discriminated against by govt policy etc etc.
Historically they were enslaved, born into slavery, treated worse than animals.
The Florida I saw is still virulently racist, as is a lot of the US.

Now there is a bit of reverse discrimination? Big deal, stop blubbing, it'll balance out eventually.
What did Ghandi say?

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

PspRpg-7 wrote:

rawls2 wrote:


lol....we need another great leader like MLK. We are hurting when it comes to role models.
We have plenty of role models. Look at our celebrities and TV stars! Don't be so silly.
Yep.
Don't know if you caught it or not, but that was sarcasm.
2008-01-22 00:03:45
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6758|New Haven, CT

PspRpg-7 wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So lets see, within living memory blacks have been raped, lynched, set on fire, segregated, discriminated against by govt policy etc etc.
Historically they were enslaved, born into slavery, treated worse than animals.
The Florida I saw is still virulently racist, as is a lot of the US.

Now there is a bit of reverse discrimination? Big deal, stop blubbing, it'll balance out eventually.
What did Ghandi say?

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

PspRpg-7 wrote:


We have plenty of role models. Look at our celebrities and TV stars! Don't be so silly.
Yep.
Don't know if you caught it or not, but that was sarcasm.
I did. Mine was as well.
2008-01-22 07:30:35
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6932|Texas
When you punish the working white guy today by putting him at a disadvantage to the black man next to him, and tell him that it's because his great great grandfather refused to hire blacks based solely on the color of their skin, you do several bad things immediately:

1. You teach the white guy that injustice in the name of justice is okay.

2. You teach the white guy that the government will sacrifice the individual for some sense of "greater fairness", whether the individual was at fault for anything or not. You alienate him from his own government.

3. You teach the black man that he is entitled to something because of the wrongs of the past.

4. You pit the white man and the black man against one another AGAIN, instead of teaching them to work together. You basically teach them that they aren't on the same side, they're on different teams.

5. You further segregate the races by creating tension.

It's a shit, shit, shit deal. I can't TELL YOU the number of times I've heard people say things like "well the Walker kid is getting calls from every college in the country, and my kid's grades are better." Then what happens? Mom and Dad no longer ask the Walker parents over for dinner or to watch the game on Sunday because they're fucking bitter. The Walker kid is going to get a free education even though Matt and the Walker kid live side by side, their parents work at the same plant, and Matt makes better grades.

Now on Sunday afternoon Matt's dad invites over a white guy who commiserates, the Walkers have over some black friends who aren't bitter towards them, and if and when Mr. Walker gets a promotion everyone (probably including Walker himself) will wonder if it was an "affirmative" action handout or if he deserved it. If he doesn't get it he'll wonder if it was a makeup call by the boss, who is tired of seeing the black guys get a leg up.

It's really about time we just quit looking at race and looked at performance.

You can't make things right by fostering a culture of inequality. It leads only to more inequality.
2008-01-22 09:52:47
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6932|Texas

clogar wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

I have a dream too.....I dream one day the white people will stop crying about the benefits minorities recieve, I dream one day they will realize  even with "affirmative action" white people still have way better opportunities to become something. I dream one day the white man will understand that the immigrants and minorities are not the root of his problems. I dream one day I will stop seeing able body white homeless men begging for money. I have a dream....
When someone is offered a 13,000 dollar scholarship from a University solely because they are Hawaiian, affirmative action has gone too far.
there are also italian american scholarships and a ton of other scholarships for only caucasians
You're gonna have to prove to me that there are scholarships that are limited to white people. And if you can prove that to me, I am 100% against it. Some might say that will level things vis a vis the "black only" scholarships, but that's STILL the wrong way to do it. Just GET RID of any racial bias at all and base everything on performance.

Last edited by Dersmikner (2008-01-22 09:54:49)

2008-01-22 09:54:57
Marinejuana
local
+415|7019|Seattle

Dersmikner wrote:

I have a dream.

I dream of the day when this nation and her people judge based on accomplishment, and not on the color of one's skin.

I dream of the day when white students can live in any dormitory they want at Cal-Berkley, and aren't shut out of the "black only" dorms, of the day when the white student isn't segregated and told he can't sleep in Cornell's Ujaama House, the all-black dorm.

I dream of a day when you are accepted to or rejected from a State University based on your grades, not your melanin content.

I dream of a time when major employers aren't told that they have to hire a specific percentage of minority applicants, even if there are more qualified white applicants. I dream of the day when the more qualified white applicant isn't told that he has to go home to his family and tell them he was the better man for the job, but couldn't get it because he wasn't dark-skinned enough.

I dream of the day when TBS's Charles Barkley ("I hate white people" - no discipline) is held to the same standard as the Golf Channel's Kelly Tilghman ("if these kids want to beat Tiger Woods somebody's gonna have to take him into an alley and lynch him" - suspended).

I dream of the day when a white student's "A" earns him as much scholarship money as a black student's "B".

I dream of the day when you have to be a citizen of this country and pay taxes in order to receive the fruits of my labor in the form of social programs.

I dream of the day when Mexico's immigration laws match our own, or when ours are as strict as Mexico's. I dream of the day when Mexico will extend to the Guatemalan immigrants the same things the Mexicans ask of us.

I dream of the day when a woman who lives in a man's house for 2 years isn't entitled to half of his income, because she has a "right" to keep the standard of living that he has provided. I dream of the day when not only does he not owe her anything after they split up, but she owes him either a refund, or a "thank you" for the years of luxury he provided her.

I dream of the day that women get either the right to an abortion AND the responsibility of the child on their own, or if they want to be able to sue for child-support must also then give the man rights regarding the abortion process. I dream of the day that our authority equals our responsibility.

I dream of the day when the rest of the world quits asking the United States for money and military aid, or takes it and quits criticizing us at every turn. I dream of the day when they come to the understanding that if you want to deride and criticize, you don't then hold out your hand. I dream of the day they "grow up" and realize what I did as a teenager: You don't have to take Dad's shit, but you better not ask him for money if you don't want to live by his rules.

I dream of the day I don't have to Press 1 to proceed in English.

I have a dream...
whoa this is so full of factual errors im not even going to touch it. its your dream, ill just leave it at that.
2008-01-22 09:57:20
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6994

Dersmikner wrote:

When you punish the working white guy today by putting him at a disadvantage to the black man next to him, and tell him that it's because his great great grandfather refused to hire blacks based solely on the color of their skin, you do several bad things immediately:

1. You teach the white guy that injustice in the name of justice is okay.

2. You teach the white guy that the government will sacrifice the individual for some sense of "greater fairness", whether the individual was at fault for anything or not. You alienate him from his own government.

3. You teach the black man that he is entitled to something because of the wrongs of the past.

4. You pit the white man and the black man against one another AGAIN, instead of teaching them to work together. You basically teach them that they aren't on the same side, they're on different teams.

5. You further segregate the races by creating tension.

It's a shit, shit, shit deal. I can't TELL YOU the number of times I've heard people say things like "well the Walker kid is getting calls from every college in the country, and my kid's grades are better." Then what happens? Mom and Dad no longer ask the Walker parents over for dinner or to watch the game on Sunday because they're fucking bitter. The Walker kid is going to get a free education even though Matt and the Walker kid live side by side, their parents work at the same plant, and Matt makes better grades.

Now on Sunday afternoon Matt's dad invites over a white guy who commiserates, the Walkers have over some black friends who aren't bitter towards them, and if and when Mr. Walker gets a promotion everyone (probably including Walker himself) will wonder if it was an "affirmative" action handout or if he deserved it. If he doesn't get it he'll wonder if it was a makeup call by the boss, who is tired of seeing the black guys get a leg up.

It's really about time we just quit looking at race and looked at performance.

You can't make things right by fostering a culture of inequality. It leads only to more inequality.
This just makes no sense. If both races had started equal then your argument has merit but they didn't. What fucken possible disadvantage could the white man have. Give me a break. A scholorship program or an equality based hiring program does not constitute racial inequality towards the white. Do you realize how dumb that sounds. What it looks like to me is the will and drive of the American (white Americans) has gone to shit, your morals have gone to shit and know that you find yourself in a shithole you want to blame another race. No way jose.
2008-01-22 10:49:05
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6932|Texas
Let me tell you a little story that shoves your theory in the shitter. You listen and tell me if you think it was fair:

I graduated in the top 10% of my high school. I was #9 in a class of 352 going into my last semester but I fell off because I'd already been accepted to the college of my choice. I think I finished #29. I was in the top 1% on my SAT. It was scored differently, but I had a 1,350 in December of 85. I was a four year letterman in more than one sport. I was Captain of the debate team. I was voted Beau (sort of like School Pimp or something). I had more extracurricular activities than I can remember. I took AP and CC (college credit) classes.

My Dad is a doctor. At the time it was his 3rd year in practice and he wasn't exactly making a fortune.

My parents had purchased me a 7 year old Monte Carlo to drive.

Across the street lived Rodney Jernigan. Great kid. His dad made an ASSLOAD more money that my Dad. Rodney's car was nicer than my Mom's car. Rodney wore NOTHING but Ralph Lauren, back when that was the shit.

Rodney was top half of our class, but that was it. Probably 100 spots below me. He had a 1,080 on the SAT. He didn't letter in any sports that I can recall, and he didn't do much for extracurricular activities.

I got $1,650 in scholarship money from The University of Texas.

Rodney got nearly $10,000.

Rodney is black. Even Rodney thought it was wrong. He didn't return the money mind you, but he thought it was wrong.

I can tell you that it really made me bitter towards Rodney. I didn't much talk to him after that. While I was eating Ramen noodles I'm sure Rodney was eating out on his "I'm black" money and that pisses me off to this day. Sure, I succeeded, but life would have been a hell of a lot better if I'd had $8,000 dollars of extra "your skin is dark" money.

I did WAY more to earn that money (from a STATE University, meaning it was funded by our tax dollars) than Rodney did, but he got it because he is black. You can bet that pisses me off.

Is that fair?
2008-01-22 11:04:30
PureFodder
Member
+225|6719
Due to harsh repression that minorities suffered due to the racist societies they lived in they largely tend to be the poorest in most western societies. As the wealth of the parents is a very good indicator of how well a kid is going to do in life (yes there are exceptions, but this fits the vast majority) the prospects of minority families regaining the wealth denied to them by the racist society are significantly reduced. The only way to redress the balance is to discriminate possitively, but at some point you will eventually have to say enough is enough and ditch the possitive discrimination.

It's like breaking someones legs before a race, then declaring that breaking someones legs is illegal then complaining that the wheelchair he gets gives an unfair advantage.

 

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