Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

Individuals who earn up to $75,000 will be eligible for a $600 check and couples who earn up to $150,000 will be eligible for $1200, according to reports and Paulson's comments.  Individuals who do not pay income tax, but have earned more than $3000 will be eligible for a $300 check.  Parents will get $300 per child.  Businesses will get $50 billion in tax cuts.
http://finance.yahoo.com/marketupdate/overview?u

https://i29.tinypic.com/b9bo03.jpg
WASHINGTON - Congressional leaders announced a deal with the White House Thursday on an economic stimulus package that would give most tax filers refunds of $600 to $1,200, and more if they have children.


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Congress would act on the agreement — hammered out in a week of intense negotiations with Republican Leader John A. Boehner and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson — "at the earliest date, so that those rebate checks will be in the mail."

President Bush praised the agreement in a statement he delivered to reporters at the White House. "This package has the right set of policies and is the right size," he said.

The rebates, which would go to about 116 million families, had appeal for both Democrats and Republicans. Pelosi's staff noted that they would include $28 billion in checks to 35 million working families who wouldn't have been helped by Bush's original proposal. Republicans, for their part, were pleased that the bulk of the rebates — more than 70 percent, according to an analysis by Congress' Joint Tax Committee — would go to individuals who pay taxes.

Individuals who pay income taxes would get up to $600, working couples $1,200 and those with children an additional $300 per child under the agreement. Workers who make at least $3,000 but don't pay taxes would get $300 rebates.

The rebates, expected to go out in June, would cost about $100 billion, aides said. The package also includes close to $50 billion in business tax cuts.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080124/ap_ … imulus_416
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KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7066|949

Interesting to see where this will go.  I am wondering where all the money will come from?

One thing I found interesting -
To address the mortgage crisis, the package also raises the limits on Federal Housing Administration loans and home mortgages that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac can purchase to as high as $725,000 in high-cost areas. Those are considerable boosts over the current FHA limit of $362,000 and the $417,000 cap for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's loan purchases.
Bank of America already bailed out Countrywide and are probably going to claim a majority of losses from those bad mortgages as tax write offs.  Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac funds are going to bail out more of the industry from what I can see here, although at least they have not changed the types of loans the FM funds can buy-out, which still stops the government from buying up most of the sub-prime mortgages.  A government bailout of the mortgage industry (whether intentional or not) is not conducive (in my opinion) to bolstering the economy.  I do not see this plan as a great success of Congress, but more of a piece of gum sealing a hole in the economic system.  I really think that certain factors of he way our economy is run/structured need to be addressed rather than simply giving people more money to spend to create a sense of buyer confidence.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

I don't want the government to bail out the lenders who screwed up neither.(And I'm a Realtor )  If no one pays the price we will be right back here again.

BOA took on the Countrywide stuff because they are strong enough to endure the market. Believe me they are not in the business of charity. If they can ride out the storm the return could be worth the risk.


Honestly I don't know. It depends on how the rebates are spent TBH. Unconditional cash in hands worries me. It was lack of financial responsibility that helped create this mess.
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IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6925|Northern California
Some stupid, stupid chit.  Not only is this worthless congress doing NOTHING they were voted in to do, but now they are in "appeasement" mode or trying to show how mature they are by working with Bush like pansies.

In the current economic condition we're in, wars raging, wall street/world economy jitters, the 87 thousand foreclosures in California last year, the recession coming, insane trade deficit....  we're giving taxes back to people.  Nice thinking.  Just like the last time Bush gave some taxes back as a way to stimulate the economy...and of course didn't have the effect intended.

When I get my $1200 back, it won't go to the economy..it'll go to debt we've been accruing because of soaring prices thanks to certain assheads running this country...it won't go to buy a new tv, iphone, or computer..it WON'T stimulate the economy.  It's greatly needed, but it's NOT the answer. 

If you're the type of person who will never "need" anything, has all the money you need, and you obviously don't give a crap about ANYONE else, why not plummet the country in further despair in order to ATTEMPT to improve your historic legacy as the worst president EVER?  Exactly..this is all posturing and legacy maneuvers.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

Mine will probably go to car down payment TBH (issues). Luckily the only debt I have is my home and I got a good fixed rate with it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7150
Check out the new addition to the house of Wax...lol..
https://i29.tinypic.com/b9bo03.jpg


off topic...apologies...

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2008-01-24 12:59:35)

Love is the answer
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6976|Texas - Bigger than France
Is that Abe Lincoln in the background?  That mic is in the perfect spot.

/on topic
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7170|Salt Lake City

IRONCHEF wrote:

Some stupid, stupid chit.  Not only is this worthless congress doing NOTHING they were voted in to do, but now they are in "appeasement" mode or trying to show how mature they are by working with Bush like pansies.

In the current economic condition we're in, wars raging, wall street/world economy jitters, the 87 thousand foreclosures in California last year, the recession coming, insane trade deficit....  we're giving taxes back to people.  Nice thinking.  Just like the last time Bush gave some taxes back as a way to stimulate the economy...and of course didn't have the effect intended.

When I get my $1200 back, it won't go to the economy..it'll go to debt we've been accruing because of soaring prices thanks to certain assheads running this country...it won't go to buy a new tv, iphone, or computer..it WON'T stimulate the economy.  It's greatly needed, but it's NOT the answer. 

If you're the type of person who will never "need" anything, has all the money you need, and you obviously don't give a crap about ANYONE else, why not plummet the country in further despair in order to ATTEMPT to improve your historic legacy as the worst president EVER?  Exactly..this is all posturing and legacy maneuvers.
Totally agreed.  My money will either be used to pay down some bills, or I may just put it into savings to boost up my own personal "rainy day" fund.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7109|Canberra, AUS
Man. What the hell is going on there? It's as if a requirement for entering politics is a frontal lobotomy at the moment.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7066|949

Spark wrote:

Man. What the hell is going on there? It's as if a requirement for entering politics is a frontal lobotomy at the moment.
The reasoning is that if people have more money in their hand, it will increase spending and perhaps public confidence (perceived anyway) in the economy.  It is not a bad idea (relatively), just not the best course of action.  The problem (in my opinion) is too much spending and too much corruption, not consumer confidence.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6925|Northern California

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Spark wrote:

Man. What the hell is going on there? It's as if a requirement for entering politics is a frontal lobotomy at the moment.
The reasoning is that if people have more money in their hand, it will increase spending and perhaps public confidence (perceived anyway) in the economy.  It is not a bad idea (relatively), just not the best course of action.  The problem (in my opinion) is too much spending and too much corruption, not consumer confidence.
No, it's not a bad idea, it's a horrible idea that didn't work the last time.  It didn't meet the president's BS numbers or economic boost he promised.  it will work even LESS this time because everyone is so strapped with debt.  Fuel costs across the board = high prices for everything...groceries, gasoline, shipping, airfare...everything.

You're right that people have been spending too much (I won't mention Gov't spending).  It makes me cringe whenever I get a cold call from some lender trying to get me to agree to a line of credit to consolidate my debts..I get SOOOOOO rude to them on the phone..sometimes I mock them, repeat all the words they say like a 5 year old..anything to get them to stop breathing.  Those countrywide commercials with that schmuck telling us how we can end up with alot more cash by refinancing..blah blah blah.  Everyone is soooo stupid and they give in to the greed from credit card companies, irresponsible lenders, and other douchebags trying to make everyone go into debt.  The VISA ("Life takes Visa") commercials that show all the snappy little customers filing through a cafeteria buying food in a perfect rythm until that bloke with the check book whips out his checks and pisses everyone off...making it look bad to use CASH to buy things instead of credit...that's the epitome of what an American is.  We are force fed this propaganda that assures us that "getting it now, paying later" is essential to your American dream.  Bam!  87,000 foreclosures in CA last year...mostly because some loser real estate noob wanted to make money off the "booming" housing market by convincing the unlearned buyers that the variable rate they're going with on their unsecured loan will "probably continue to go down so you're payments will get cheaper!"  I bought in 2006 and had our real estate hustler try to convince my wife and I to get the variable and we asked a simple question that EVERY home owner should have asked, "Can the rate go up?"  Or maybe "What if the variable rate goes to 4.8 from 4.6, how much more a month will I be expected to pay?"  Thankfully at my church, our leaders teach us to be self sufficient, financially responsible and sensible, to avoid debt, and to make a savings for hard times ahead.  Sorry for the religious reference..i'm sure it's safe to say that all atheists also get that information from their...non-religious sources. 

Anyway, not attacking you KEN, just arguing that point of it not being a bad idea! lol

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-01-24 14:32:58)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7035|132 and Bush

You don't know the half of it. Since new home construction has slowed builders who have built on spec and are currently stuck are referring buyers to their "preferred lenders". Those lenders are still bending the rules and still exploiting people. Often the builder will pay the closing cost (enticing huh?), but in order for the lender to agree to grant the loans they are sticking it to the builders with points at closing. The builder doesn't care so much as they get the property sold. The home owner is screwed in the long run. Realtors live and die by word of mouth and referrals. If they aren't pointing this stuff out it will catch up to them soon.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|7050|do not disturb

Those rebates are most likely going to pay for people's debt. If not, why do we still think credit expansion is good for the economy? This was more of a bail out of the financial industry than of the average Joe.
topal63
. . .
+533|7152
Building starts slowed? Oh, yeah...

Shit, my residential engineering projects are down 80% form the level, of the same time period, as last year. They still have a lot of (spec) inventory to clear out. ALL of my fortune 500 clients (home builders) have cut an equal percentage of jobs - from thier regional offices.

Last edited by topal63 (2008-01-24 15:10:06)

san4
The Mas
+311|7122|NYC, a place to live
Way too much of the stimulus funds will go to people who won't spend it. And it doesn't--and can't--fix the fundamental problems that are spreading throughout the world economy now. It's a waste of money just to look like they're doing something, IMO.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6839|North Carolina
I just wish they'd cut the payroll tax.  You can at least deduct income taxes, but payroll tax hits you every paycheck with no recourse.  Also, it's a tax that favors the rich, since you don't pay payroll tax beyond a certain income.

As for rebates, it's a nice idea, but it's not very useful.  We need to cut government spending more than we need to cut taxes.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-01-24 19:39:58)

Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|7005|USA

Turquoise wrote:

I just wish they'd cut the payroll tax.  You can at least deduct income taxes, but payroll tax hits you every paycheck with no recourse.  Also, it's a tax that favors the rich, since you don't pay payroll tax beyond a certain income.

As for rebates, it's a nice idea, but it's not very useful.  We need to cut government spending more than we need to cut taxes.
zimbabwe, anyone?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6839|North Carolina
I don't follow you.  What do you mean?
eaglecorps
shotguns
+23|6678|TEXAS
I'm for the stimulus it might lower the value of the dollar in the long run but will help keep us out of this impending recession.
irishtop
Hopscotch Champion
+11|6597|Houston, Texas
I really don't understand how these peoples big solution to over-spending is, spend money? Our economy does not have an underspending problem, we overspent and that is how the whole housing thing over-inflated and crashed. Although i drill holes in their response I'm certainly no economist so I haven't got the golden ticket.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6839|North Carolina
The problem is that tax cuts win votes regardless of whether or not they actually help the economy.  That's why politicians pass them.

Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|7005|USA
@turquoise: zimbabwe is in a state of insane hyperinflation because of out of control spending by mugabe. he printed more money to finance his government which now makes a zimbabwe 10million dollar bill worth less than 4 USD.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6839|North Carolina
Good points...  do you think this plan might send us in a similar direction?
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|7005|USA
the potential is there, yes.

but i don't see it happening, because the republicans are officially screwed now. this crisis is going to be blamed on bush, because nobody approves of him anymore, and people like to think the president actually has any power over anything domestic. as well, those with any government knowledge whatsoever will blame him because he sets the fiscal policy of pretty much the entire national government yearly.
the major problem is that our government actually fucking spends more money on debt repayments yearly than everything else combined. so, this close to election time, a democrat stands nearly unopposed in his bid for office, therefore changing...something.

in the next round of reseating in the congress i'm pretty sure that most of the seats up for grabs will be the ones currently red. those will go blue. people have a tendency to vote out the incumbents during financial crisis.

the major thing is inflation. the rebates, because they take money away from the government, has potential to cause this. however, the fed is not a government body. as long as the money supply stays out of the hands of those who spend it wrecklessly, i don't see massive inflation on the horizon. a little, yes. but nothing on the same scale as zimbabwe.

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