BF2S Forums A Presidents Bad Decision

usmarine wrote:

Nope, not talking about GWB this time.

I wonder if Clinton can sleep at night?  What happens in Iraq will be judged in due time.  History will show whether it was right or wrong.  We can argue about it now and that is fine.  But time does have a way of sorting out what worked and what has not worked.

"The situation is very severe. It is the most pressing humanitarian emergency in the world today -- even worse than Darfur,"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080129/wl_ … efugees_dc

Now some of you may think this is Clinton bashing.  It is not.  I lost a family member in Somalia.  I have been there myself.   We (the US) pulled out and ran away leaving that place a mess.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-01-30 02:27:18)

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Nope, not talking about GWB this time.

I wonder if Clinton can sleep at night?  What happens in Iraq will be judged in due time.  History will show whether it was right or wrong.  We can argue about it now and that is fine.  But time does have a way of sorting out what worked and what has not worked.

"The situation is very severe. It is the most pressing humanitarian emergency in the world today -- even worse than Darfur,"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080129/wl_ … efugees_dc

Now some of you may think this is Clinton bashing.  It is not.  I lost a family member in Somalia.  I have been there myself.   We (the US) pulled out and ran away leaving that place a mess.

Well, sorry for your loss, but maybe you'd prefer a mess like Iraq where you didn't run away.  I wonder how many Americans would have died in Somalia in the case of a war like the one in Iraq.  In Rwanda died 800k people, and nobody can say Somalia is worse than Darfur.  Both conflicts are a mess.  But you can't blame Clinton for this, it wasn't the US responsibility.  Neither was Iraq.

FEOS wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Nope, not talking about GWB this time.

I wonder if Clinton can sleep at night?  What happens in Iraq will be judged in due time.  History will show whether it was right or wrong.  We can argue about it now and that is fine.  But time does have a way of sorting out what worked and what has not worked.

"The situation is very severe. It is the most pressing humanitarian emergency in the world today -- even worse than Darfur,"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080129/wl_ … efugees_dc

Now some of you may think this is Clinton bashing.  It is not.  I lost a family member in Somalia.  I have been there myself.   We (the US) pulled out and ran away leaving that place a mess.

Well, sorry for your loss, but maybe you'd prefer a mess like Iraq where you didn't run away.  I wonder how many Americans would have died in Somalia in the case of a war like the one in Iraq.  In Rwanda died 800k people, and nobody can say Somalia is worse than Darfur.  Both conflicts are a mess.  But you can't blame Clinton for this, it wasn't the US responsibility.  Neither was Iraq.

So your response to a rough situation is to run from it?

Wow.

FEOS wrote:

You don't measure success or failure by the number of black hawks down. You measure it by whether or not you achieve your objectives. One of the objectives (from the UN, no less) was to take down Aidid, if I remember correctly. That didn't happen. One bad incident, dramatized by instant worldwide media, and Clinton cuts and runs.

Whether we should have been there to begin with is a separate issue. We were there, we had a mission. Clinton ran away because he couldn't handle the press. After we left, the rest of the UN forces left. And Somalia became what it is today...even worse than before.

And as the OP said, this isn't about Iraq or GWB. It's about the humanitarian ramifications of a decision by Clinton.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-01-30 05:06:20)

rdx-fx wrote:

Bill Clinton didn't give a damn about the troops.  To him, we were expendable pawns to be used to nudge an opinion poll a couple points in his favor, not an instrument of foreign policy.

Somalia was a shithole.  Somalia will continue to be a shithole until some nation decides to sit on it for the next 20-40 years.  America is a little busy - why doesn't Argentina send it's troops? 

Iraq has some history of civilization, some vague memory of what being part of a nation means, some hope of turning into a functioning country.
*
Somalia is an AIDS infested, starving, AK-47 obsessed death cult that has NO hope of turning into a civilized nation, unless nearly every male adult there somehow magically disappeared.  That area is a F***ing write-off.  Let it go.  They don't want society - they want more excuses to pick up their AK and fight.

FEOS wrote:

He had lots of choices. He could have chosen to give the SOF the support they needed and requested. But he was worried about how it would look on CNN.

Not everyone there was on a humanitarian mission and Clinton knew that. He chose to leave the troops hanging then pull out when his lack of support got American soldiers killed and dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

FEOS wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

He had lots of choices. He could have chosen to give the SOF the support they needed and requested. But he was worried about how it would look on CNN.

Not everyone there was on a humanitarian mission and Clinton knew that. He chose to leave the troops hanging then pull out when his lack of support got American soldiers killed and dragged through the streets of Mogadishu.

How many troops would have been enough?  How many Americans would have died?  The US had no responsibility for Somalia.  The UN should be independent of the US.  It's unfair for the US being the world police.  The uN should handle this kind of conflicts, not just sit and watch how the US covers its back.

The US had responsibility for Somalia as soon as we signed up to support the UN mission.

And your characterization of the US and UN is completely bassackwards. The UN wouldn't be able to handle anything if the US didn't participate. Mainly because so many other countries preach about doing something but then don't put their asses on the line when it comes to actually doing something. Then it's the UN's job, not theirs.

Fucking hypocrites.

rdx-fx wrote:

Pure and simple, Somalia was a typical Clinton-run operation;

Sent troops into a shit-hole, so he could claim to be doing something..
Gave the troops a muddy objective, that changed with whatever winds were blowing over the Potomic that day..
Launched a few cruise missiles, got a few blowjobs..
refused to give the troops the mission flexibility and/or equipment to properly execute the missions..
And (to paraphrase) effective gave the troops but one order "look like you're doing something, but don't do so much that CNN sends Wolf Blitzer there to cover it as a headline"

And Clinton did all this, while gutting the US military.  Look up "peace dividend", "base realignment and closure", et al.

Bill Clinton didn't give a damn about the troops.  To him, we were expendable pawns to be used to nudge an opinion poll a couple points in his favor, not an instrument of foreign policy.

Somalia was a shithole.  Somalia will continue to be a shithole until some nation decides to sit on it for the next 20-40 years.  America is a little busy - why doesn't Argentina send it's troops? 

Iraq has some history of civilization, some vague memory of what being part of a nation means, some hope of turning into a functioning country.
*
Somalia is an AIDS infested, starving, AK-47 obsessed death cult that has NO hope of turning into a civilized nation, unless nearly every male adult there somehow magically disappeared.  That area is a F***ing write-off.  Let it go.  They don't want society - they want more excuses to pick up their AK and fight.

deeznutz1245 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

And you know I'm right, he had no choice but to leave the place.  They were on a Humanitarian mission, and they weren't prepared for such a war.

Right. And this kid doesn't look anything like Chris Farley.....


......http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2190 … hd5.th.png

sergeriver wrote:

They were on a Humanitarian mission, and they weren't prepared for such a war.