BF2S Forums Wanna know about Islam, ask a Muslim

Tetrino wrote:

Mek-Izzle wrote:

I hate when people say that. Look, in the real world. You provide proof for something which you claim exists/happens or nobody will beleive you. It's perfectly plausible if say....someone said they saw an Alien, and nobody believed them because they had no proof. Whereas, it's not really plausible to say "you have no proof that I didn't see it"

Point taken. However, in the same way that scientists still search for the cure for cancer which has yet to be found, I will choose to continue to believe in God, whose existence in your eyes has yet to be proven.

Tetrino wrote:

On another note, just as some of you believe that God doesn't exist, and some others and I believe there is, and neither side has enough evidence to convince each other otherwise, let's drop that aspect of the debate and return to what you guys want to know about Islam, which I shall try my best to answer.

Fair enough. I agree It's all a matter of belief. I just wanted to get my point across. At the end of the day, everyone can think what they want.

Last edited by Mek-Izzle (2008-02-05 11:38:23)

PluggedValve wrote:

Sonata, you bring a very fresh perspective for us westerners.  I have a couple questions though.  You seem to contradict yourself a bit.  First you said that Islam is proven then you say that you have to "believe".  If its proven, then there is no need for "faith".

This is maybe a language problem,, but I'm not sure ,, anyway, when I said "proven" I meant that you can judge that Islam is true by using your pure mind ,, and I didnt used this word "believed" an opposite to "proven".

PluggedValve wrote:

It seems a bit narrow for you to say that Shiites are not Muslim because they only pray 3 times a day (because of the 12th Imam, i think).  They believ in 99% of the same things as you, so it seems like you believe 99% the same as a non muslim.  Is that not hippocritical.

To decide if someone is Muslim or not,, you don't count the quantity of his beliefs,, you just see what does he believe in ??

Praying five times a day is a common teaching and very obvious,, so if someone believe that they shouldn't pray five times ,, he is not a Muslim.

The logical reason for this is:
Muhammad says: you have to pray five times.
A person says: we don't have to pray five times.

Well that means this person doesn't believe Muhammad so he is not a Muslim.

PluggedValve wrote:

I am unclear on Mohammed's mission or purpose.  I understand he was put there by Allah to spread Islam.  If he is spreading Islam using violence(last ditch effort as i understand it) is that actually spreading Islam or is it spreading fear??  If they had to scare people into believing in Islam, then the people they spread it to dont truely believe in Islam.  They believe in not being killed for Islam.

Muhammad didn't use violence against any Non-Muslim ,, he fought in particular situations against some particular people.

And generally he don't say: either you follow me or you get killed.
there was three choices:
1- Be a Muslim
2- Live free and respected , but under some conditions,, One obvious condition is "You don't prevent us from spreading Islam and don't fight us for that"
3- Refuse those conditions. and fight.

And note that it is forbidden to kill any woman , child ,  old man,or anyone who isn't able to fight, even if they are Non-Muslims and refuse following Muhammad.

Generally: killing or just hurting one of those people is considered "sinful" . but there are some exceptions.

So in short: Muhammad don't fight every Non-Muslim Man. He fought in special situations.

There were a lot of Non-Muslims who lived in peace with Muhammad,
and it wasn't allowed to hurt 'em, one was his neighbor , he was a Jew,, and Muhammad didn't hurt him at all,, when this Jew was sick,, Muhammad visited him.

PluggedValve wrote:

If muslim's see non-muslims as "infidels" then how come they can do business with the non muslim??  Seem's a bit silly to trade goods with someone you see as an enemy or lesser being.  If Islam's teachings were all true, would God's people (ie. muslims in this case) be living in worse conditions than the infidels??  If so, how does that make an average muslim feel "more holy" than anyone else.  Does it not raise questions at least.

Muslims aren't like that.


Let me tell you a story of a real Muslim "AliBinAbyTaleb" to help you understand how a real Muslim thinks :

That great Muslim was at war,, and fighting a Non-muslim warrior,, the Muslim just won the fight and was very closed to kill him,, in that time : the Non-muslim warrior knew that he is dead then he just fired a spittle at the Muslims face ( I dunno what do you call this action in English ) anyway this Muslim left him and didn't kill him. why??

because he is afraid of being killing that guy not totally for God but also for himself (sense he was angry because of that fired spittle),, he wants to kill him only for God ,, and it is wrong to do it for yourself.

Last edited by Sonata (2008-02-06 01:39:46)

Sonata wrote:

FEOS wrote:

That is no different than any other religion, yet other religions don't (generally) have these overtly violent reactions to those types of things. Why the difference with Islam?

Islam is proved to be right,, it wasn't created by a man,, it just came from God.
remember that there is only one truth and one true religion and "beliefs".

So say all the other religions, including the other Abrahamic religions. How are you any more right about it than they are? And does your belief in being more right about the truth justify violent reactions to drawings of Mohammed (for instance)?

Sonata wrote:

If you asked me about violence ,, this word isn't clear, I agree that there are violent things in Islam ,, like cutting a hand or a head ,, or fighting some people,, but they are all great and good and just.

Why are they "great and good and just"? Simply because they are Islamic traditions? There have been plenty of barbaric Jewish and Christian traditions in the past, but those religions moved beyond that kind of thing.

Sonata wrote:

If there is a criminal,, he murders , rapes , steals,, isn't good to kill him ?

In some cases, yes...murder, for instance. Killing someone for theft? Seems a bit extreme and certainly not what one would expect a peace-loving religion to proliferate.

Sonata wrote:

Anyway we ( Muslims ) can't talk about Islamic teachings to judge if they are good or bad?? just when we know that Muhammed said that ,, we directly believe it and think that it is good , just,, we never argue. that what is called "believing".

Some would say faith is belief in spite of argument. Blind obedience is not a common trait amongst the three Abrahamic religions...it seems to be more of a Muslim thing.

Sonata wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Some religions would consider Mohammed's teaching to be a "myth" (as you put it). How would you, as a Muslim, respond to a non-Muslim describing your religion as a "myth"?

Well, humans must disagree,, and in this situation we can argue ( politely ) and everyone should give some proofs of his belief. I'm sure if anyone just used his mind and think logically,, he will surly believe in Islam and say: "Muhammad is right".

Actually, if one were to think strictly logically, there would be no belief in a higher power...as evidenced by the many atheistic arguments in this thread. Faith is belief in spite of the logic against it...belief without proof. There are fervent believers out there who say Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life and that no man shall get to Heaven but through their belief in Him. I'm sure they wouldn't say "Muhammad is right".

Sonata wrote:

There are some enemies of Islam who believe that Muhammed is right. but they refused following him.

For instance?

Sonata wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Then how do you explain the enforcement of Sharia law on unwilling citizens, even non-Muslims? When you have a law system taken part and parcel from a religious text, you are by default forcing others to live with your religion's mandates.

As I said it is not about forcing people ,, it is not about you and me,, it is about God,, about obeying God. and doing what God wants us to do exaclty.

If I person did just what God ordered him to do,, can you blame him ?

Does God order men to kill women who have behaved in a shameful way? Does God order man to keep women uneducated and treated as lesser beings? These are the types of contradictions we see in strict enforcement of Sharia law that seem to be at odds with the position that Islam is a religion of peace and equality.

Perhaps the language barrier you are dealing with (very well, I might add) is preventing you from fully explaining these things. If so, that's unfortunate, as I truly appreciate you engaging on this topic.

Because... Islam is right and the only way... if you don't believe... it's our duty to kill you...

PluggedValve wrote:

What is the difference between an Infidel and a non-believer, if any??  Why do muslims tend to look down on if not hate an infidel/ non believer??
Thank You.

The Quran refers to non-Muslims as 'kafir', or infidel. However, this isn't meant literally, just like how a man cannot wear gold, doesn't mean he can wear platinum. There are actually two types of non-Muslims in the Quran, from my point of view. One would be 'kafir', those who openly reject, oppose and seek to remove Islam from the face of this Earth. You can imagine it'd be impossible to convert this kind of person, so the Quran instructs us to fight back, to prevent Islam from being destroyed. The Quran also says that you must fight the 'kafir' the same way he fights Islam. If he uses words, use your own. If he uses guns, use your guns.

On the other hand, non-Muslims who live alongside Muslims peacefully are considered 'jahil', unknowing, as in they do not know the feeling of being close to God. Regarding these people, the Quran states that every Muslim must protect them from harm the best that they can, and befriend them. In doing so, the non-Muslims will (hypothetically) be more inclined to convert.

So while it's technically a strategy for optimizing chances of conversion and preserving Islam, can you say that you would not do the same when faced with a man who's trying to destroy everything you believe in, and when faced with someone who has every chance of sharing your beliefs in the near future?

David.P wrote:

Sonata you didn't really answer my question. Infact it sounds like you're reading out of the Cair handbook.

Tell me right now straight up! Why is it okay for Muslims to have no right to be offended(Cartoons, Criticism, etc) While they can offend others?

Well, apart from rioting protesters screaming incoherent crap, I haven't really seen any normal non-violent Muslims making cartoons offending Christians or any other religion. The Madness Combat series featuring a homicidal version of Christ isn't made by a Muslim, and as far as I know, hasn't drawn any flak from churches. The reason Muslims around the world are enraged by the Muhammad cartoons is because in Islam, any physical depiction of Muhammad is forbidden. However, to hold demonstrations and burn down buildings and send death threats is not the proper way to react. Situations like this require a level head, something which few people have to begin with. Out of the God-knows-how-many million Muslims out there, you can't expect 99% of them to think about the issue before reacting. A lot of human beings don't really think, regardless of their faith.

However, no one's stopping you from protesting about the depiction of Christ in Madness Combat and the likes. Christians and Jews are perfectly entitled to openly denounce anything that they think offends their beliefs, they just don't exercise that.

FEOS, I'll answer your questions later today, because I already spent a lot of time making the above 2 replies.

Nobody seems to answer my question regarding muhammed killing several tripes of jews. I dont think a messager from god is ordered to kill gods people

Last edited by stef10 (2008-02-06 00:01:29)

David.P wrote:

Sonata you didn't really answer my question. Infact it sounds like you're reading out of the Cair handbook.

Tell me right now straight up! Why is it okay for Muslims to have no right to be offended(Cartoons, Criticism, etc) While they can offend others?

In Islam offending is not okey,, whether you offend a Muslim or a Non-Muslim, it is NOT ok,, and if a Muslim offended a Non-Muslim , that's his own action and you don't blame Islam for this,, actually Islam blames this Muslim guy.

There is a difference between criticism and offending. polite criticism is okey.( but there are some details ,, I mean for example you can't criticize God )

And there is a great difference between offending a Muslim and offending Islam or Muhammad ( sense we believe that he is a Messenger ).

Offending a Muslim is not that much bad,, but offending Islam or Muhammad is great bad.

Thank you.

Last edited by Sonata (2008-02-06 04:23:45)

I can ask anything? Ok.

Why do muslims in general have a tendency to convert everything and everyone, worse than christians?
If someone disagrees with them or 'insults' them, why do you explode like crazy, and not enter the dialogue.

Wanna know about Islam: read the Qur'an.
Wanna know about Islam: you'll also need to read the Bible, because the Quaran is clearly a derivative of this source.
Wanna know about Islam: you should also study some comparative mythology (primarily): Greek/Roman, Persian, Canaanite, Sumerian, Egyptian - as the Bible (& Quaran) are also derivatives of these earlier mythical traditions.
Wanna know about Islam: study the Dead Sea scrolls, and gnostic (heretical) texts: Thomas, Judas, Mary, Peter, Enoch, etc... or other "so-called" pseudepigraphical texts. The relationship patterns will began to emerge in your mind if you do this (it did for me anyways).
Wanna know about Islam: Study Buddhism and Hinduism (the seed of Buddhism) to find out how mystical spiritual thinking was co-mingling cross-influencing other traditions in the Middle East and Near East.
Wanna know about Islam: Learn about the author, and try to understand his political motives.

If you want to know about devotion and/or cherry picking text from the Qur'an to fit a somewhat traditional interpretation of the Qur'an ask a Muslim.

you cant trust the priest, or someone that worships allah for the truth.

Bernadictus wrote:

I can ask anything? Ok.

Why do muslims in general have a tendency to convert everything and everyone, worse than christians?
If someone disagrees with them or 'insults' them, why do you explode like crazy, and not enter the dialogue.

Easy.  Christians go to places alike Africa and get people to convert by giving them food, water and medicine.  Islam gets you to strap a bomb to your chest and blow up the local starbucks.

Last edited by usmarine (2008-02-06 10:33:50)

Sonata wrote:

stef10 wrote:

Nobody seems to answer my question regarding muhammed killing several tripes of jews. I dont think a messager from god is ordered to kill gods people

No people are God's people, nor Muslims.

And I think those Jews who were killed by Muhammad, I think they just did great bad things so it was just to kill them.

God said that a prophet of him never would tell false prophesies but muhammed did this.

The jews were decapitated i think and he raped the women. And its funny that in Mohammed's early days he said that he was processed by a demon.

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Easy.  Christians go to places alike Africa and get people to convert by giving them food, water and medicine.  Islam gets you to strap a bomb to your chest and blow up the local starbucks.

Really? I was under the impression some of them blew themselves up in protest at western military action and support for oil-rich dictators in their part of their world...

That just doesn't even make sense cam. What are you making a witty remark or a comeback?