Pages: 1 2

 

2008-02-03 10:17:30
Marinejuana
local
+415|7014|Seattle
minarchism isn't far off from my beliefs, though it shouldn't be considered a form of anarchy. a-s is pretty much a reaction to corporate power as it exists today and wouldn't be necessary if we actually had a govt body dedicated to protecting individual rights. ideally i'm a marxist. but handing over any more public service responsibility to the present corporations/govt is so far from marxism that its reforms do not deserve to be called socialism. its more like the expanse of imperialism. and thats what they have in europe.

Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-02-03 10:25:59)

2008-02-03 10:34:02
The_Mac
Member
+96|6654
I like the John McCain ad right below this whole thread.
2008-02-03 10:37:56
madmurre
I suspect something is amiss
+117|7139|Sweden
From a Swedish perspective the American election is about right, righter and rightest. Funny we see things that different
2008-02-03 10:41:06
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6834|North Carolina

Marinejuana wrote:

minarchism isn't far off from my beliefs, though it shouldn't be considered a form of anarchy. a-s is pretty much a reaction to corporate power as it exists today and wouldn't be necessary if we actually had a govt body dedicated to protecting individual rights. ideally i'm a marxist. but handing over any more public service responsibility to the present corporations/govt is so far from marxism that its reforms do not deserve to be called socialism. its more like the expanse of imperialism. and thats what they have in europe.
Good points...  I guess I'm a cynical pragmatist.  If corporations are going to control things one way or another, I'd rather they be forced to aid the poor than to be allowed to neglect them.
2008-02-03 10:42:34
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7050|London, England
America's Choices: Left, Lefter, Leftest
lol

You guys don't know shit about left wing, until you've been here. Your left wingers are our ring-wing religious lunatics
2008-02-03 11:02:28
Marinejuana
local
+415|7014|Seattle

Mek-Izzle wrote:

America's Choices: Left, Lefter, Leftest
lol

You guys don't know shit about left wing, until you've been here. Your left wingers are our ring-wing religious lunatics
your monarchs and parliaments are owned by the same people that own our government and coca-cola. the fact that they have different PR teams and drool different rhetoric for the same policies doesn't make their MO different. your leftists are actually right wing imperialists to the core. the "socialist programs" that you recognize are the bread and circus that keep your middle classes content while the ruling class, together with americas ruling class, go about controlling world trade and ensuring that they always import favorably (exploitatively) and own the worlds central banks. so in fact, all you know is the right wing, and you wouldn't know liberalism or collectivism if it slapped you in the face. D: but i still agree that america is fundementally right wing. its scary how you think youre a left wing society tho.

Turquoise wrote:

I guess I'm a cynical pragmatist.  If corporations are going to control things one way or another, I'd rather they be forced to aid the poor than to be allowed to neglect them.
i just don't think they should be allowed to control things. i think the same way we throw a murderer in prison, we should treat a person the same way if their business dealings put a bunch of people in the poorhouse, ie., by buying up assets. you could simply have a law that says its illegal to make more than 1000x minimum wage. that would be like $16 million in a year, way more than anybody deserves, and yet some people control billions and collapse whole cities with a single business transactions. nobody should have that kind of power over the hard working average person that will pull their weight if they have a chance. if you just allow people to exploit each other, then you have a system like ours which progresses toward totalitarianism as the ever decreasing number of powerful political bodies vie for control while outsiders lack the capital to even make a showing.

Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-02-03 11:13:36)

2008-02-03 11:04:56
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7073

Marinejuana wrote:

Mek-Izzle wrote:

America's Choices: Left, Lefter, Leftest
lol

You guys don't know shit about left wing, until you've been here. Your left wingers are our ring-wing religious lunatics
your monarchs and parliaments are owned by the same people that own our government and coca-cola. the fact that they have different PR teams and drool different rhetoric for the same policies doesn't make their MO different. your leftists are actually right wing imperialists to the core. the "socialist programs" that you recognize are the bread and circus that keep your middle classes content while the ruling class, together with americas ruling class, go about controlling world trade and ensuring that they always import favorably (exploitatively) and own the worlds central banks. so in fact, all you know is the right wing, and you wouldn't know liberalism or collectivism if it slapped you in the face. D: but i still agree that america is fundementally right wing. its scary how you think youre a left wing society tho.
and we start with conspiracies.
2008-02-03 11:07:27
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6958|Global Command
I agree that liberalism is a sham. They lie. They offer things the State cannot deliver in exchange for more power than they already have.
2008-02-03 11:08:27
jord
Member
+2,382|7107|The North, beyond the wall.

Marinejuana wrote:

Mek-Izzle wrote:

America's Choices: Left, Lefter, Leftest
lol

You guys don't know shit about left wing, until you've been here. Your left wingers are our ring-wing religious lunatics
your monarchs and parliaments are owned by the same people that own our government and coca-cola. the fact that they have different PR teams and drool different rhetoric for the same policies doesn't make their MO different. your leftists are actually right wing imperialists to the core. the "socialist programs" that you recognize are the bread and circus that keep your middle classes content while the ruling class, together with americas ruling class, go about controlling world trade and ensuring that they always import favorably (exploitatively) and own the worlds central banks. so in fact, all you know is the right wing, and you wouldn't know liberalism or collectivism if it slapped you in the face. D: but i still agree that america is fundementally right wing. its scary how you think youre a left wing society tho.
Why would Coca Cola own our Monarchy...?

The Queen has little to no power, so until the Queen starts advertising for them, your statement is incorrect. Like most conspiracy theories.
2008-02-03 11:09:44
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7073
now you done it
2008-02-03 11:22:07
Marinejuana
local
+415|7014|Seattle

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

and we start with conspiracies.
are you suggesting that our government or those in europe are transparent? thats awfully optimistic. who owns the currency, weapons, and infrastructure? if you want to talk about politics (aka, the dynamics of power), those people are always the players.

jord, i, in no way, meant that as a literal statement about coca-cola and your 'parliamentary democracy.' it was a figurative statement describing the fundamentally capitalist nature of the european economy and dependent govts. im sorry if you took that literally, because coca-cola is certainly not one of the most powerful companies. those would be european banks.

Last edited by Marinejuana (2008-02-03 15:07:48)

2008-02-03 11:39:40
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6922|N. Ireland
The United States of Shantys it'll be then?
2008-02-03 14:33:43
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7061|949

MJ just about hit the nail on the head.  It's funny though, because I have been saying much the same for the last 2 years on here, and I can speak from experience in saying that his words largely go in one ear and out your mother (collectively speaking).
2008-02-03 15:43:54
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6834|North Carolina

Marinejuana wrote:

i just don't think they should be allowed to control things. i think the same way we throw a murderer in prison, we should treat a person the same way if their business dealings put a bunch of people in the poorhouse, ie., by buying up assets. you could simply have a law that says its illegal to make more than 1000x minimum wage. that would be like $16 million in a year, way more than anybody deserves, and yet some people control billions and collapse whole cities with a single business transactions. nobody should have that kind of power over the hard working average person that will pull their weight if they have a chance. if you just allow people to exploit each other, then you have a system like ours which progresses toward totalitarianism as the ever decreasing number of powerful political bodies vie for control while outsiders lack the capital to even make a showing.
If we can agree that corporations control much of the world and its governments, then you should be able to realize that your proposal will simply not happen.

The rich will continue to run things, and the best that can be done is to at least hold them accountable for certain things.  This is similar to the status quo, but I would agree that more accountability should be implemented.
2008-02-03 21:46:21
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7080|USA

ATG wrote:

Juan McCain is another uberWarMonge and will stand at the Mexican border with a cache of false ID's for sexslave-traders, arms-runnerss, Islamist insurgents, Mexican underclass, and petty convicts of various sorts.

Juan McCain has said  that he sees the USA as just one small state in a World Union, and a problematic State we are, who must take drastic action to save the planet [his fawning to Ubersocialist Scwarzenegger]

Hillary will quickly institute The Village. The State owns and manages your children, your family, your parents. The State is your Doctor.
The State is your banker - your salary goes to the State, which decides how much of your salary to render back to you as 'disposable income'

Barak will find commonality with dictators, despots, oligarchs, sultans & kings.
Barak will pay for your abortion, eliminate your national borders, pay extortion payments to hispanic activists, join the world socialist community.

McCain and Hillary are unabashed dictators-in-waiting, like Bush.

Barak is still a bit of a wildcard.


The end result may be that main street America looks like this;




http://www.bized.co.uk/images/favela.jpg
I swear t oGod, I weep for what used to be our nation.
2008-02-04 01:04:54
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7061|949

Marinejuana wrote:

i just don't think they should be allowed to control things. i think the same way we throw a murderer in prison, we should treat a person the same way if their business dealings put a bunch of people in the poorhouse, ie., by buying up assets. you could simply have a law that says its illegal to make more than 1000x minimum wage. that would be like $16 million in a year, way more than anybody deserves, and yet some people control billions and collapse whole cities with a single business transactions. nobody should have that kind of power over the hard working average person that will pull their weight if they have a chance. if you just allow people to exploit each other, then you have a system like ours which progresses toward totalitarianism as the ever decreasing number of powerful political bodies vie for control while outsiders lack the capital to even make a showing.
How would limiting the amount a person makes (or is allowed to make) maximize personal freedom?  The fact that government would be able to limit the amount of money a person makes would seem to me a large impediment on personal freedom.  The pursuance of wealth/property is a fundamental aspect of a free society, and also human nature.  A limit on that ability is simply arbitrary at best.

A maximum cap on income would actually punish society as a whole - it would strip income (and the ability/incentive to earn above the arbitrary-judgement maximum) from people who want to earn it - the same people that invest capital to create and maintain the country's economic and social infrastructure.  Power of a nation-society as a whole (militarily, industrially, politically) is primarily contingent on the infrastructure/industry of the country.  In that regard, the potential to create and invest wealth is fundamental to a powerful society.

There definitely needs to be a balance in regards to the ability to create personal wealth and the control that possible amount of wealth could dictate.  However, that can (and should) be addressed through the avenues that lead to the ability to control entire economies/industries/societies.

I do agree that corporate welfare needs to end, and there needs to be much more accountability in regards to white-collar crime and government/private sector collusion.  However, that (corporate corruption) is entirely removed from a value-judgement on the right of a person to obtain assets - and is a real, tangible problem as opposed to social commentary.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-02-04 01:06:32)

2008-02-04 05:55:59
Dersmikner
Member
+147|6927|Texas
I'd vote for Romney but the Mormon thing is a little bit much for me.

I'd vote for Huckabee but he's too Jesusy for me.

McCain may squawk about the war and cutting pork barrel spending, but the truth is that he's a commie.

Marx may have invented communism but Hillary perfected it as near as I can tell.

I'm casting a write-in vote for my Dad.
2008-02-04 05:57:40
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7050|London, England

Dersmikner wrote:

I'd vote for Romney but the Mormon thing is a little bit much for me.

I'd vote for Huckabee but he's too Jesusy for me.

McCain may squawk about the war and cutting pork barrel spending, but the truth is that he's a commie.

Marx may have invented communism but Hillary perfected it as near as I can tell.

I'm casting a write-in vote for my Dad.
Use crayons and put the y backwards

 

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